Farewell Luke Jackson

[Demon17 5,227]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:50 AM, Lord Nev said:

 

You can be disappointed we're losing a talented player without having personal cracks at someone you've never met and know nothing about. These comments are just so poor.

Its not personal.  If I was considering him for a role in my business he wouldn't make the cut - and yes Iv'e never met him but I have seen his behaviour on which I am entitled to have a view -  because history tells me he would be unable to commit and buy in. And if you think being an AFL player in the system reflects reality for the general population then youv'e lost me. Its not real. This issue demonstrates a clear immaturity within the AFL. 

LJ IMO has a number of issues about going home , so I'm not ignoring that the story has a bit more behind it and wish him well.

 

[Demon17 5,227]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:44 AM, Slartibartfast said:

Douglas

Great get. Thanks. He didn't write Watership Down.

[Demon17 5,227]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:33 AM, BW511 said:

This 'Blicavs' comment is underselling how good he (Blicavs) is. He's been AA in 3 different positions.

It also confirms that the industry doesn't think Jacko is a ruckman long term nor a forward

Blicavs is gerat and his 'pinch hitting ' this year especially consolidated his reputation for sure .

What do you think the 'industry' thinks LJ is then?

[Redleg 41,933]

5 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

 

What do you think the 'industry' thinks LJ is then?

A lucky young man.

[binman 44,512]

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

The post where she - as a member of the MFC supporters page - went out of her way to say MFC will always have a special place in their heart and graciously thanked club and fans? The one where a mother said she is proud of her son and looking forward to having him home again after a few years of Covid lockdowns? Nah haven’t seen that one yet, better post it in here again mate so we can all scrutinize it!

Regardless of if his parents influenced his decision or not, the decision is made. We move on. There’s nothing to be gained by us all whinging and creating narratives to justify it to ourselves.

Now he’s officially leaving, our focus should solely be on what value we can extract in a trade to improve our team.

Since when is as an adult, considering the advice, and perhaps also feelings, of your parents when making big life decisions a bad thing (to be clear LT, i know you are not saying it is)?

I wish my 19 year old son would take some of my bloody advice and consider my feelings every now and then!

[BW511 2,724]

17 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Blicavs is gerat and his 'pinch hitting ' this year especially consolidated his reputation for sure .

What do you think the 'industry' thinks LJ is then?

My immediate thought is 'under enormous pressure', although it doesn't answer the question. 

My guess is the industry thinks he's a talent, but no one is really sure where he will end up positionally.

It's an enormous amount of money for a second ruck or second/third tall forward.

If he was not in the Melbourne side and we were chasing him from elsewhere, for that money and length of contract, the place would be in hysterics

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by BW511

[fr_ap 2,541]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Cadman's not perfect, no prospect is. He's not the best with ground balls, and like most talls it may take him a few years to build enough strength to consistently win those grappling marking contests he excels at in his current competition age bracket. His strengths directly address our weaknesses though IMO.
He's a really strong mark all round, whether on the lead, overhead, or in a wrestle. He played defense when he was younger and shifted forward this year to great effect due to being able to read the ball and play really well. There's multiple instances in the championships where he had the ball come in high and he marked it overhead while out-wrestling others or with blokes hanging off him in a pack.
He's also a proven goal kicker, averaging 3.6 goals a game at underage level and being the leading goalkicker at underage level and the champs.

Our main issues up forward are a strong marking tall target, and lack of goal scoring firepower. Cadman's a strong mark and big goal kicker. That's exactly what we need. He'd be the right target for us if we have a top 5 draft pick from the Jackson trade, as he's top 5 on talent and fills our biggest list hole.

Thanks for providing these extra details. I'm certainly not against him and think he looks alot better than Jefferson who is supposedly the next best KPF in the pool 

[Lord Travis 10,793]

17 minutes ago, binman said:

Since when is as an adult, considering the advice, and perhaps also feelings, of your parents when making big life decisions a bad thing (to be clear LT, i know you are not saying it is)?

I wish my 19 year old son would take some of my bloody advice and consider my feelings every now and then!

It’s not a bad thing at all. There’s also nothing wrong with what his mother posted in support of everyone. There’s no point dissecting it to create a narrative. I was attempting to convey that, albeit with sarcasm attached. Nothing wrong with someone having their family as a key part of their decision making process.

More importantly I was trying to say no reason for people to be creating these narratives and having a crack when they don’t know the circumstances and it’s a pointless exercise. It’s all irrelevant, as the decision has been made now. We have no choice but to accept the decision and move on with the sole focus of extracting value from the trade, instead of looking in the rear view mirror at an unclear view.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Lord Travis

[binman 44,512]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

It’s not a bad thing at all. There’s also nothing wrong with what his mother posted in support of everyone. There’s no point dissecting it to create a narrative. I was attempting to convey that, albeit with sarcasm attached. Nothing wrong with someone having their family as a key part of their decision making process.

More importantly I was trying to say no reason for people to be creating these narratives and having a crack when they don’t know the circumstances and it’s a pointless exercise. It’s all irrelevant, as the decision has been made now. We have no choice but to accept the decision and move on with the sole focus of extracting value from the trade, instead of looking in the rear view mirror at an unclear view.

Totes agree LT.

 

[Axis of Bob 11,898]

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

He's also a proven goal kicker, averaging 3.6 goals a game at underage level and being the leading goalkicker at underage level and the champs.

Our main issues up forward are a strong marking tall target, and lack of goal scoring firepower. Cadman's a strong mark and big goal kicker. That's exactly what we need.

Josh Schache kicked 34 goals in 7 TAC Cup games (4.9 goals per game) and 24 goals in 6 Championship games (4 /game).

I'm not saying that Cadman is a dud (or making any judgement on him at all), I'm just saying that 'being a proven goalkicker' at junior level is often pretty uncorrelated to success at the next level up. The way those games are played, and the relative development of the different players, can often result in very different skill sets being rewarded.

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,972]

1 hour ago, Demon17 said:

Blicavs is gerat and his 'pinch hitting ' this year especially consolidated his reputation for sure .

What do you think the 'industry' thinks LJ is then?

 

[The heart beats true 18,183]

In regards to his mum posting on Facebook I think 2 things:

- Players and families are specifically told to avoid commenting on social media for obvious reasons. Did that conversation need to be public, when she would have been able to contact people directly? I don’t want to come down too hard but all that did was put her into a public conversation she’d be well advised to stay out of - for her, and her sons sake. Let’s not forget that this is her child effectively resigning from a job. How would you feel if your mum did that to you at work?

- Her use of the phrase ‘coming home’ was interesting. I was raised to go and live my own life. 5 years ago Luke was aiming to play in the NBA. What did she think was going to happen then?

I’m starting to buy into the theory that his mum had a lot of influence, and was quite vocal about it.

[sue 9,171]

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

.....

- Her use of the phrase ‘coming home’ was interesting. I was raised to go and live my own life. 5 years ago Luke was aiming to play in the NBA. What did she think was going to happen then?

I’m starting to buy into the theory that his mum had a lot of influence, and was quite vocal about it.

But he didn't.   Was any reason ever given publically?

Edited September 14, 2022 by sue

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

2 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Agree with your sentiments in last para.

But it's a national comp and he had a 1 in 9 chance of staying home. Buy in or play another sport.

My overall fear is the AFL is now heading into an EPL style comp where most teams have no chance of improving themselves.

Its a real worry IMO to maintain public interest.

If the upcoming money sink of Tasmania gets up 9along with GWS and Gold Coast), I reckon it spells the certain relegation/promotion system.

I actually think that would be a good thing for the sport. It would mean teams compete harder and longer at the fear of being relegated. It can also help implement a system where a portion of the seasons fixture (after Rd 17)is determined by the ladder position - the problem being what do you to keep competition high for those teams circling the bottom 4 - 6. 

There are however many other issues that will make this near impossible in the short term.

[layzie 34,326]

5 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

In regards to his mum posting on Facebook I think 2 things:

- Players and families are specifically told to avoid commenting on social media for obvious reasons. Did that conversation need to be public, when she would have been able to contact people directly? I don’t want to come down too hard but all that did was put her into a public conversation she’d be well advised to stay out of - for her, and her sons sake. Let’s not forget that this is her child effectively resigning from a job. How would you feel if your mum did that to you at work?

Yeah that is true, we all remember the Harley Bennell saga with his mother posting on the MFC FB groups.

[Lucifers Hero 40,509]

Looks like WCE are back in the game, altho they may be leaving their run a bit late: 

“At this stage Tim, no it’s not,” O’Brien said in response to whether pick No.2 is on the table...“If we get the opportunity to trade for Luke, we can split selections to generate more, we’ve got future selections and there’s player trades.”

O’Brien says that while he and his team are yet to contact Melbourne or Jackson’s management they won’t be “gun shy” in negotiations.  “We haven’t spoken to Melbourne yet at all, I’ll contact Tim Lamb in the coming days and start working through that,” O’Brien said.  “But we also need to get in front of Luke and his management to find out their position as well and put our case forward to hopefully convince him that we’re the right club to come to.

SEN

[Lord Travis 10,793]

9 minutes ago, sue said:

But he didn't.   Was any reason ever given publically?

Jackson made a decision to pursue football instead of basketball 5-6 years ago. Why does the decision to pursue one sport over another as a teenager matter to any of us? What does his family life matter to us supporters now that he's leaving? What value is there in speculating about any of it?

I've been harping on about supporters accepting the decision and moving on, but clearly some of you are still in a stage of grief and having irrational discussions. I'll stop banging on in this thread now until the pointless probing and speculation of his family life is over and others are wanting to discuss what we value can extract in the Jackson trade.

Personally I'm hoping we can pinch pick 2 from the Eagles, but unfortunately it seems likely he'll wind up at Freo for a few mid-late range first round picks.

[Lord Travis 10,793]

4 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Looks like WCE are back in the game, altho they may be leaving their run a bit late: 

“At this stage Tim, no it’s not,” O’Brien said in response to whether pick No.2 is on the table...“If we get the opportunity to trade for Luke, we can split selections to generate more, we’ve got future selections and there’s player trades.”

O’Brien says that while he and his team are yet to contact Melbourne or Jackson’s management they won’t be “gun shy” in negotiations.  “We haven’t spoken to Melbourne yet at all, I’ll contact Tim Lamb in the coming days and start working through that,” O’Brien said.  “But we also need to get in front of Luke and his management to find out their position as well and put our case forward to hopefully convince him that we’re the right club to come to.

SEN

Thank you for that update with quotes supplied LH!

[Redleg 41,933]

21 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Looks like WCE are back in the game, altho they may be leaving their run a bit late: 

“At this stage Tim, no it’s not,” O’Brien said in response to whether pick No.2 is on the table...“If we get the opportunity to trade for Luke, we can split selections to generate more, we’ve got future selections and there’s player trades.”

O’Brien says that while he and his team are yet to contact Melbourne or Jackson’s management they won’t be “gun shy” in negotiations.  “We haven’t spoken to Melbourne yet at all, I’ll contact Tim Lamb in the coming days and start working through that,” O’Brien said.  “But we also need to get in front of Luke and his management to find out their position as well and put our case forward to hopefully convince him that we’re the right club to come to.

SEN

I don't think WC are back in the game at all.

That to me sounds like WC acknowledge he is Freo bound, but that they will now ask the question of LJ's management.

The question is a very simple one, "are you wedded to Freo, or could we sway you with a better all round offer"?

If they were serious about LJ, they would have had discussions with his management by now.

Seems this is what we thought all along, he is off to Freo and has probably already committed to them.

Now it's time to get the best deal we can.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Redleg

[Lord Travis 10,793]

33 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Josh Schache kicked 34 goals in 7 TAC Cup games (4.9 goals per game) and 24 goals in 6 Championship games (4 /game).

I'm not saying that Cadman is a dud (or making any judgement on him at all), I'm just saying that 'being a proven goalkicker' at junior level is often pretty uncorrelated to success at the next level up. The way those games are played, and the relative development of the different players, can often result in very different skill sets being rewarded.

That's a completely valid point. No draft pick is a certainty and there's been plenty of top 5 picks who went on to be duds. We've had more than our fair share of them!

By the same token, the best players, especially tall forwards, are usually highly talented juniors taken in the first round of the draft. If you look at the Coleman medal winners, nearly every one for over a decade has been a first rounder.

2022 - Curnow - first round pick
2021 - H McKay - first round pick
2020 - Hawkins - father son pick
2019 - J Cameron - underage pre-draft (first round equivalent)
2018 - J Reiwoldt - first round pick
2017 - Franklin - first round pick
2016 - J Kennedy - first round pick
2015 - J Kennedy - first round pick
2014 - Franklin - first round pick
2013 - J Roughead - first round pick
2012 - J Reiwoldt - first round pick
2011 - Franklin - first round pick
2010 - J Reiwoldt - first round pick

It's up to the recruiters to determine if they think Cadman's physical attributes, skillset, and personality mean he will flourish at AFL level or not. Based on his output and data on previous draftees, he's more likely to become a winner than not. No guarantees though! 

[ElDiablo14 5,036]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Since when is as an adult, considering the advice, and perhaps also feelings, of your parents when making big life decisions a bad thing (to be clear LT, i know you are not saying it is)?

I wish my 19 year old son would take some of my bloody advice and consider my feelings every now and then!

I hope that at least your soon took your advise to support the Dees! 😎

[layzie 34,326]

It seems bizarre that WC have contacted Luke's management. Surely they have what it takes to make a good offer.

[The heart beats true 18,183]

28 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

I've been harping on about supporters accepting the decision and moving on, but clearly some of you are still in a stage of grief and having irrational discussions. I'll stop banging on in this thread now until the pointless probing and speculation of his family life is over and others are wanting to discuss what we value can extract in the Jackson trade.

So…

‘Please don’t irrationally speculate about what’s going through a players head. Instead restrict all irrational speculation to what’s going through Tim Lamb’s head’?

Edited September 14, 2022 by The heart beats true

[sue 9,171]

21 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Jackson made a decision to pursue football instead of basketball 5-6 years ago. Why does the decision to pursue one sport over another as a teenager matter to any of us? What does his family life matter to us supporters now that he's leaving? What value is there in speculating about any of it?

I've been harping on about supporters accepting the decision and moving on, but clearly some of you are still in a stage of grief and having irrational discussions. I'll stop banging on in this thread now until the pointless probing and speculation of his family life is over and others are wanting to discuss what we value can extract in the Jackson trade.

Personally I'm hoping we can pinch pick 2 from the Eagles, but unfortunately it seems likely he'll wind up at Freo for a few mid-late range first round picks.

We discuss all sorts of aspects of clubs and players, why not their motivation for decisions?  Almost all of it is pure speculation, and if we really knew we wouldn't be posting on here anyway.  

We're not harming Jackon or his mum or his pet dog by discussing these things.  I'm sure our interest in all aspects of Jackson will diminish pretty soon anyway.

Personally I'm not fussed about him leaving - seems to offer opportunities for fixing deficencies in our list.  Doesn't mean I'm not interested in the human side of things as well.    I think it is completely reasonable to ask why Jackson decided not to pursue NBL

[Lord Travis 10,793]

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

So…

‘Please don’t irrationally speculate about what’s going through a players head. Instead restrict all irrational speculation to what’s going through Tim Lamb’s head’?

If you want to phrase it that way, then yes! 

What's in Jackson's head and anything to do with him as a person is now irrelevant as he's not part of our club or future.

What's in Tim Lamb's head is relevant as he's still part of our club and his decision making shapes our clubs future.