Jump to content

The trade Jack Viney thread


olisik

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

TBF that seems to be a trend this year - leading to the pockets - you're probably correct in your observation it's to prevent turnovers/rebound opportunities.

I don't totally blame the players though, our forward structure has been a mess for a while and it would be compounded by the selection this year which has meant it's not only different players every week but also numerous different structures. TMac and Brown were back to being all over each other on the weekend.

Plus, from what I've heard, quite often forward leads haven't been honoured when they should have so that would add to the mess.

Leading to the pockets is IMO an instruction from the coaches.

It is clearly based on keeping possession and IMO,  affects our chances of scoring from inside 50 entries.

That is probably borne out by our scores.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Lot of people praising Jack for his "toughness", "loyalty", "heart and soul" etc. but not many praising him for his ability to affect scoring chains, hitting targets or making good decisions. That says it all really. Heart and soul doesn't win games, skill execution does. 

It's time for Jack to reinvent himself. He is a liability in the middle now. 

I agree

He has 0 goal assists for the year

That's one stat that really frightens me 

 

  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, WA Demon Boy said:

I agree

He has 0 goal assists for the year

That's one stat that really frightens me 

 

WOW

8/9 games, 0 assists......surely not? Surely he even mis-kicked one to an un-suspecting forward? 
 

how many assists Petracca and Oliver? (if you can find it easily) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, WA Demon Boy said:

I agree

He has 0 goal assists for the year

That's one stat that really frightens me
 

Sure, but for score involvements he's ahead of Melksham, Spargo, Langdon, Jackson, ANB, Brown, Harmes, Weid and a ton more...

Goal assists isn't a great stat. Pickett is one of our best for that right? He averages 0.47 per game.

Edited by Lord Nev
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

WOW

8/9 games, 0 assists......surely not? Surely he even mis-kicked one to an un-suspecting forward? 
 

how many assists Petracca and Oliver? (if you can find it easily) 

Petracca averages 0.47 per game, Oliver 0.53.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sure, but for score involvements he's ahead of Melksham, Spargo, Langdon, Jackson, ANB, Brown, Harmes, Weid and a ton more...

Goal assists isn't a great stat. Pickett is one of our best for that right? He averages 0.47 per game.

On the contrary, I think the score involvement as a stat is pure fluff. Score assists are material. 

And I reckon he has a higher number of "involvements" than most of those players you've listed simply because he plays on the ball and is normally involved from the stoppage. It's really just a stat for the sake of a stat though, the score can happen 10 disposals away from the player and they are still "involved" according to the stat. Doesn't tell you much other than the procession of players that touched the ball after you didn't turn it over. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Smokey said:

On the contrary, I think the score involvement as a stat is pure fluff. Score assists are material. 

And I reckon he has a higher number of "involvements" than most of those players you've listed simply because he plays on the ball and is normally involved from the stoppage. It's really just a stat for the sake of a stat though, the score can happen 10 disposals away from the player and they are still "involved" according to the stat. Doesn't tell you much other than the procession of players that touched the ball after you didn't turn it over. 

I would agree, except it's not 'score assists' it's 'goal assists' and the number is that low for them that it's not really worth bothering with. Using your same argument, someone could give a Joe the goose handball and get a 'goal assist' when in reality others have done the work.

I prefer the 'kick inside 50 retention rate' stat for the sake of what we're talking about, but unfortunately it's not publicly available.

Edited by Lord Nev
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

That's totals though. Viney's missed a bunch of games.

Yep, included Matches Played for the reference of others but just couldn't be bothered doing the math for each stat.

His tackling #s compared to some of the other mids is elite especially as he's played half the games of some of the others 

Tackles - 4th
Tackles inside 50 - 2nd

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sure, but for score involvements he's ahead of Melksham, Spargo, Langdon, Jackson, ANB, Brown, Harmes, Weid and a ton more...

Goal assists isn't a great stat. Pickett is one of our best for that right? He averages 0.47 per game.

If you don’t mind, could you please explain the difference between goal assists and score involvements? All good if you cbf. I’m sure there’s AFL for Dummies somewhere online. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

If you don’t mind, could you please explain the difference between goal assists and score involvements? All good if you cbf. I’m sure there’s AFL for Dummies somewhere online. ?

So, score involvement means the player has been involved in an unbroken chain of play that leads to a score.

Goal assist is creating a goal by getting the ball to a teammate either via a disposal, knock-on, ground kick or hitout, or by winning a free kick before the advantage is paid to the goal scorer.

TBH, neither is particularly telling IMO.

Edited by Lord Nev
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Viney could have run another 10 metres but no, just took the first option a poor one at that.

No guarantee he'd still find a better option though...

My problem from our delivery on the weekend was we looked deep nearly every time. We're better when we're looking further out and more laterally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


1 hour ago, roy11 said:

I know statistics aren't everything but some of the key outputs (from a scoring POV) of the mids so far this season .

 

MO.jpg

On that chart, Gus kicks less than 1 from 6 shots and Clarry at nearly 1 in 4.

Saturday Hawks mids scored 5 goals to our none.

A slight improvement by our mids and we probably beat Hawks, Crows and Giants.

Edited by Redleg
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, drdrake said:

OK, you are slamming him, his past/current coaches which includes his dad for not taking him down a peg or two.  That Viney will read The Age best players and think I was awesome today, you don't think that his current coaches will review his turnovers and  highlight them.

Taking down a peg or two. Your words, not mine. I think him seeing ball, get ball is so ingrained it is now difficult to change, I think the evidence is pretty clear it is difficult to change a sportsman base tactics in their late twenties. Some do it to their great credit. I have confidence in Mark Williams being able to review Jacks game and highlight things such as when he gave up the chase running behind Max Gawn in the second or third quarter. I will concede lack of fitness with Jack. As for the Age best players, then for some players and we do not know if Jack is one of them, a contradictory message is sent as I said at the outset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Taking down a peg or two. Your words, not mine. I think him seeing ball, get ball is so ingrained it is now difficult to change, I think the evidence is pretty clear it is difficult to change a sportsman base tactics in their late twenties. Some do it to their great credit. I have confidence in Mark Williams being able to review Jacks game and highlight things such as when he gave up the chase running behind Max Gawn in the second or third quarter. I will concede lack of fitness with Jack. As for the Age best players, then for some players and we do not know if Jack is one of them, a contradictory message is sent as I said at the outset.

And he does that a lot, this is not the first time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Was going to a post the same thing about Montagna who I rate as an analyst.

Montagna thought Viney was outstanding and made a point that once a player reaches his fourth game on return from long term injury, they get back to their normal output.

Viney was far from perfect on Saturday night but it was certainly a step up from the last 3 weeks.

Saw that and also they brought up the Clayton Oliver incident where Spargo marked in front of him. I didnt think anything if it at the time and still say the same

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is some statistical comparisons (on averages) for this season between Viney, Petracca, Oliver, Jordon and Harmes:

  1. Tackles: Viney 7.4, Oliver 5.2, Harmes 5.2, Jordon 5.1, Petracca 4.1
  2. Tackles inside 50: Viney 1.4, Jordon 1.1, Harmes 0.7, Oliver 0.5, Petracca 0.4
  3. Pressure acts: Viney 26.7, Harmes 24.2, Oliver 23, Petracca 22.1, Jordon 18.2
  4. Score involvements: Petracca 7.8, Oliver 7.4, Viney 4.6, Harmes 3.9, Jordon 3.7
  5. Goal assists: Oliver 0.5, Petracca 0.5, Harmes 0.3, Jordon 0.3, Viney 0
  6. Inside 50s: Petracca 7.3, Oliver 5.2, Viney 4.2, Harmes 3.4, Jordon 2.4 
  7. Clearances: Oliver 7.5, Petracca 6.3, Viney 4.4, Harmes 3.1, Jordon 1.7
  8. Centre clearances: Oliver 2.9, Petracca 2.9, Viney 1.6, Harmes 1.1, Jordon 0.3
  9. Stoppage clearances: Oliver 4.6, Petracca 3.4, Viney 2.9, Harmes 2.0, Jordon 1.4
  10. Contested possessions: Oliver 16.6, Petracca 14.1, Viney 10.8, Harmes 9.8, Jordon 6.1
  11. Turnovers: Petracca 6.9, Oliver 5.2, Viney 4.9, Harmes 3.7, Jordon 3.4
  12. Clangers: Petracca 5.3, Oliver 5.1, Harmes 4.0, Viney 3.9, Jordon 2.5
  13. Ground ball gets: Oliver 10.5, Petracca 9.5, Harmes 7.4, Viney 6.1, Jordon 4.8
  14. Metres gained: Petracca 545.1, Oliver 420.5, Viney 274.8, Oliver 243.2, Harmes 231.2
  15. Marks: Petracca 5.3, Oliver 4.1, Harmes 3.3, Jordon 2.9, Viney 2.2

Viney rates top for some defensive stats (tackles and pressure acts) but mid-table for offensive stats.

Which makes sense, tbh.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    HEAVEN OR HELL by The Oracle

    Clashes between Melbourne and St Kilda are often described as battles between the forces of heaven and hell. However, based on recent performances, it’s hard to get excited about the forthcoming match between these two sides. It would be fair to say that, at the moment, both of these teams are in the doldrums. The Demons have become the competition’s slow starters while the Saints are not only slow to begin, they’re not doing much of a job finishing off their games either. About the only th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons

    THE BLOW by Whispering Jack

    Narrm’s finals prospects took a crushing blow after the team’s insipid performance at Optus Stadium against a confident Waaljit Marawar in the first of its Doug Nicholls Round outings for 2024.  I use the description “crushing blow” advisedly because, although the season is not yet at it’s halfway mark, the Demons have now failed abysmally in two of their games against teams currently occupying bottom eight places on the ladder.  The manner in which these losing games were played out w

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 6

    HALF FULL by KC from Casey

    It was a case of the Casey Demons going into a game with a glass half full in their match up against the Brisbane Lions at Casey Fields on Saturday. As the list of injured and unavailable AFL and VFL listed players continues to grow and with Melbourne taking all three emergencies to Perth for the weekend on a “just in case” basis, its little brother was always destined to struggle. Casey was left with only eight AFL listed players from who to select their team but only two - an out-of-form

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    PREGAME: Rd 11 vs St. Kilda

    The Demons return to the MCG to take on the Saints in Round 11 on the back of two straight losses in a row. With Jake Lever out with concussion who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 310

    PODCAST: Rd 10 vs West Coast

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 20th May @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we dissect the Demons disaapoiting performance against the Eagles at Optus Stadium in Round 10. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 44

    VOTES: Rd 10 vs West Coast

    Last week Captain Max Gawn consolidated his lead over reigning champion Christian Petracca in the Demonland Player of the Year Award. Steven May, Alex Neal-Bullen & Jake Lever make up the Top 5. Your votes for the loss against the Blues. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 37

    POSTGAME: Rd 10 vs West Coast

    Many warned that this was a danger game and the Demons were totally outclassed all game by a young Eagles team at Optus Stadium in Perth as they were defeated by 35 points.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 445

    GAMEDAY: Rd 10 vs West Coast

    It's Game Day and the Demons have returned to the site of their drought breaking Premiership to take on the West Coast Eagles in what could very well be a danger game for Narrm at Optus Stadium. A win and a percentage boost will keep the Dees in top four contention whilst a loss will cast doubt on the Dees flag credentials and bring them back to the pack fighting for a spot in the 8 as we fast approach the halfway point of the season.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 884

    WARNING by William from Waalitj

    As a long term resident of Waalitj Marawar, I am moved to warn my fellow Narrm fans that a  danger game awaits. The locals are no longer the easybeats who stumbled, fumbled and bumbled their way to the good fortune of gathering the number one draft pick and a generational player in Harley Reid last year. They are definitely better than they were then.   Young Harley has already proven his worth with some stellar performances for a first year kid playing among men. He’s taken hangers, k

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 22
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...