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CHANGES: Rd 16 vs GWS

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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  On 27/06/2021 at 22:12, Kent said:

Worst game from ANB as well for the year Maybe Jonesy or AVB for a week or too

Anb didnt seem to do a great deal but he was our highest tackler on five.

A few players are down on form in Kozzie and Nibbler and maybe fritta.

On the plus side I thought Hunt returned to good form.

If chunk comes in I guess im not sure who would come out. Sparrow hasnt been great but scored a ripper goal. Tough call but to hear Chunk is in form is good news.

Now if we can just fix our fwd line?

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      On 27/06/2021 at 22:52, leave it to deever said:

    Anb didnt seem to do a great deal but he was our highest tackler on five.

    A few players are down on form in Kozzie and Nibbler and maybe fritta.

    On the plus side I thought Hunt returned to good form.

    If chunk comes in I guess im not sure who would come out. Sparrow hasnt been great but scored a ripper goal. Tough call but to hear Chunk is in form is good news.

    Now if we can just fix our fwd line?

    Coming off a win and dropping someone for Nathan Jones? 

    Did I wake up in the year 2016 this morning? 

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      On 27/06/2021 at 22:57, Smokey said:

    Coming off a win and dropping someone for Nathan Jones? 

    Did I wake up in the year 2016 this morning? 

    Ha. Id prefer to bring bbb in for Sparrow as my only change.

    We played well I thought against a good side.

    This years comp has shown that outside of the 8 there are some very good teams that can give anyone a run for their money.

     

     
      On 27/06/2021 at 22:57, Smokey said:

    Coming off a win and dropping someone for Nathan Jones? 

    Did I wake up in the year 2016 this morning? 

    Did you watch the Casey game??

      On 27/06/2021 at 23:01, Kent said:

    Did you watch the Casey game??

    Jones is depth only now for mine, don't care how well he plays in the two's  

    We're winning games while our kids play, why on earth would we disrupt that to bring in Jones ... 

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    Probably going  to get mauled for this but kozzie played an incredibly soft game on Saturday. Poor one handed tackling attempts, didn't play smart footy ball in hand and never looked dangerous. 

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    No change for me with Petracca spending more time forward after the centre bounces.

    Viney could potentially need a week off and could be the sub with Jones coming into the 22.

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      On 27/06/2021 at 23:03, GCDee said:

    Probably going  to get mauled for this but kozzie played an incredibly soft game on Saturday. Poor one handed tackling attempts, didn't play smart footy ball in hand and never looked dangerous. 

    That could be the reason  Smokey

     
      On 27/06/2021 at 23:03, GCDee said:

    Probably going  to get mauled for this but kozzie played an incredibly soft game on Saturday. Poor one handed tackling attempts, didn't play smart footy ball in hand and never looked dangerous. 

    He really has fallen away and should and would be disappointed with his performance v Collingwood and Essendon

    Mind you he isn't the only one and the forward 6 have been pretty ordinary (ex Jackson and Spargo). Fritta is on very thin ice IMO and would want to perform well against GWS.  

    • Like 1
      On 27/06/2021 at 10:13, At the break of Gawn said:

    There’s no way we’re dropping our leading goal kicker.

    If we’re doing the two changes then I think AnB goes out. He still turns it over too often (had 5 last night and went at 43%). I know he had 5 tackles but I think Kozzy has an X factor that worries the opposition. 

    Kozzie continually chases hard and applies pressure and every team needs an X factor that can be unpredictable. Kozzie fills that role and has exhibited a creativity when on . Spargo is a lock also IMO. 

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      On 27/06/2021 at 22:30, Smokey said:

    You could forgive someone for thinking we lost on the weekend after a having a look at a lot of the comments in this thread. 

    Having said that, I reckon Ben Brown needs to come in for someone, not sure who though. 

    I don't blame the commentary today.

    AT the game we said all night without the May/Lever (apologies to Hunt,Salem Rivers and Hibberd) team, we would have lost for sure .  

    Henece the hand-wringing here about selection.

    Premiership defence now. Just fix other issues forward.

      On 27/06/2021 at 23:03, Smokey said:

    Jones is depth only now for mine, don't care how well he plays in the two's  

    We're winning games while our kids play, why on earth would we disrupt that to bring in Jones ... 

    I don't think Jones will come in, but wouldn't be totally surprised. His kicking and vision were great, which is something we could do with in the AFL team atm.

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    People are way too quick to pull the trigger on players. 

     

      On 27/06/2021 at 23:06, Fat Tony said:

    No change for me with Petracca spending more time forward after the centre bounces.

    Viney could potentially need a week off and could be the sub with Jones coming into the 22.


    How does it help to bring in Viney then push him out one week later? 

    Also the calls to drop ANB, Spargo and Fritta are just silly.

    The only change we need is BB in to the side. We were too quick to pull the trigger on him last time after he had an average game v Carlton. Give him 4 weeks and we will be a much better side. 

    Let Tmac have the 2nd defender and Fritta the 3rd. 

    I will be amazed if BB doesn't come back in 

    • Like 2
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      On 26/06/2021 at 12:27, adonski said:

    More chance of aliens being found on mars tomorrow than Fritsch ever getting dropped, he's our best forward

    And fair enough. Although when will he be played/lead to the correct pocket for a left footer.?

      On 28/06/2021 at 00:06, WA Demon Boy said:

    People are way too quick to pull the trigger on players. 

     


    How does it help to bring in Viney then push him out one week later? 

    Also the calls to drop ANB, Spargo and Fritta are just silly.

    The only change we need is BB in to the side. We were too quick to pull the trigger on him last time after he had an average game v Carlton. Give him 4 weeks and we will be a much better side. 

    Let Tmac have the 2nd defender and Fritta the 3rd. 

    I will be amazed if BB doesn't come back in 

    Viney played his first game for 9 weeks. If he is right to go, he is right to go. But I would be surprised if he isn't sore. My feeling is that we will need to nurse him through this year and particularly the next few weeks. It is really about getting him in tip top shape for September.


    I love Jones, but it is short term thinking to bring him in for Sparrow. Sparrow will be a player. He is calm under pressure, has a dash of speed Jones no longer does, and is great defensively. 

    Jones brings experience, but where he excels, which is hunting the ball at the contest, is also where we simply do not need him. He has lost a lot of pace, which means he cannot spread defensively. I am not ruling him out, and maybe his experience and leadership will be vital come finals, but we are just now at the start of our window of premiership opportunities. 

    Sparrow will be around for the entirety of that window. Jones  will not. Short term thinking will hurt us long term. It's why we also can't just throw away Weideman or be impatient with Petty.

    Edited by Jaded

    • Like 4

    Forgetting but not discounting the defensive needs of our fwds for a moment, If we were to stay a mobile fwd line with TMac and Dogga as the main talls. I would keen to have a look at arrangement with Declase rolling through there and would like (an invested) Melksham too. I feel that would add a level of connection and skill to the fwds that is dearly needed. 

      On 27/06/2021 at 22:12, Kent said:

    Worst game from ANB as well for the year Maybe Jonesy or AVB for a week or too

    ANB had 31 pressure acts (only Viney for either side had more), 5 tackles (our most), and his opponent was Hind who didn't do much at all.

    The vandenBerg love in has got to be toned back. He's not best 22 and he doesn't have the speed, tank or forward nous to replace ANB.

    • Like 3
      On 28/06/2021 at 00:49, titan_uranus said:

    ANB had 31 pressure acts (only Viney for either side had more), 5 tackles (our most), and his opponent was Hind who didn't do much at all.

    The vandenBerg love in has got to be toned back. He's not best 22 and he doesn't have the speed, tank or forward nous to replace ANB.

    ANB is a player that will keep coming up in conversation because to the naked eye he doesn't do much in games. But he is one of the most important role players in our team, and I bet one of the first names on the board every week. He does a lot of things that are hard to see at the ground, and even harder to see on TV as the camera focuses solely on the action. 

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    It's B.Brown for Fritsch for me.

    I think Fritsch is a dangerous player who uses his smarts to get free, I also think he can play a negating role on medium intercept marking backs which is very valuable.  He's a good player who has been key in some of our wins this year.

    But I think we need a contested marking target in our forward structure and something has to give.

    I don't want to go with one less mid to accommodate an extra tall.  In the last quarter whenever Essendon had the ball on the back 50 I saw 4 MFC jumpers along the line of the centre square guarding the corridor and forcing them down the line.  I think in the end that's why we won.  That takes discipline and great running and I think we need the critical mass of mids to achieve it.  Sparrow played limited minutes but had high impact for that time - he was involved in some great handball chains, tackles strongly and kicked a clutch goal - he stays in for me.

    Big finals are won in the contest - B.Brown offers more aerial contest deep inside 50 than Fritsch.  They both have similar defensive profiles when the ball hits the ground and I think we can only afford one of that type.  Fritsch would need to consistently kick more goals than B.Brown to make up for the lack of aerial contest and I don't think he can.

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    I think Harmes needs to become a full time tagger, he seems to understand his role and play better if he has a really clear task for the game. 

     

    • Like 1
      On 28/06/2021 at 00:13, Fat Tony said:

    Viney played his first game for 9 weeks. If he is right to go, he is right to go. But I would be surprised if he isn't sore. My feeling is that we will need to nurse him through this year and particularly the next few weeks. It is really about getting him in tip top shape for September.

    Pretty sure that Viney said he has been nursed & prepared for the pointy part of the season. They have been extremely cautious & not bought him back early so would be very surprised if he missed next week 

     

    First Crack on Fox Footy last night was talking about Jackson being up to 44% time on ball.  Gawn spent a lot of the last quarter in defence while Jackson took the ruck.  I thought that was interesting (and very successful - Gawn's last quarter was great), but it did leave us short in the forward half.  Macca is a lead up forward.  Fritsch is a hybrid who applies very little defensive pressure.  Brown is also not great defensively but can take a mark and draw a free.  I guess the cost-benefit analysis would be interesting on Brown.  What is his "break even" point?  I think he'd have to kick at least three per game to compensate for the scoring opportunities the opposition gets from his lack of capacity to do the things we value in our forward half.  I don't think it's any surprise that this was one of the main reasons North was prepared to let him go.  And it's probably why Weid got a 5 week run at it.  He's more mobile and can chase and tackle.  If Jackson and Gawn aren't going to change forward all the time, then we need one more tall.  I'm not a fan of either option at the moment.

    Had Tomlinson not gone down, perhaps Petty could've been the marking target deep forward.  

      On 28/06/2021 at 01:15, Pollyanna said:

    It's B.Brown for Fritsch for me.

    I think Fritsch is a dangerous player who uses his smarts to get free, I also think he can play a negating role on medium intercept marking backs which is very valuable.  He's a good player who has been key in some of our wins this year.

    But I think we need a contested marking target in our forward structure and something has to give.

    I don't want to go with one less mid to accommodate an extra tall.  In the last quarter whenever Essendon had the ball on the back 50 I saw 4 MFC jumpers along the line of the centre square guarding the corridor and forcing them down the line.  I think in the end that's why we won.  That takes discipline and great running and I think we need the critical mass of mids to achieve it.  Sparrow played limited minutes but had high impact for that time - he was involved in some great handball chains, tackles strongly and kicked a clutch goal - he stays in for me.

    Big finals are won in the contest - B.Brown offers more aerial contest deep inside 50 than Fritsch.  They both have similar defensive profiles when the ball hits the ground and I think we can only afford one of that type.  Fritsch would need to consistently kick more goals than B.Brown to make up for the lack of aerial contest and I don't think he can.

    Usually we are on the same page 55 but not this time. Fritsch is very frustrating but is also our most productive forward.

    Brown's biggest hurdle is that Max is spending around 30% of the game forward at the moment and we can't ever have both Gawn and Brown in the same forward line.

    I am also not sure we need another big marking target. Our game plan is very structured for slow ball movement situations and we look to "narrow" the ground by going along the boundary. Because TMac and Jackson are so mobile, they are generally able to cover enough territory to get to the next contest in time if we win the first one. (Watch how often they are in one contest and we take a mark or get a free and then they are the long target the next time.) On the counter attack, Fritsch's mobility is much more valuable than Brown's marking.

    Brown/Weideman would get more opportunities if we were willing to use the fat side of the ground, but this is taboo and our strategy would need to change to allow this. The reason we are so cautious is that we are concerned about getting opened up on the counter attack. The defensive running of the midfield and wingers, May and Lever and the cautious way we are moving the ball is why our defence is so strong.

     


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