5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Adelaide supporters on Big Footy seem adament the ball deflected off Spargo and hence not deliberate. I dunno, I can't bring myself to watch it again just yet.

A way to fix the grey area of deliberate (or not deliberate) is to pay a free kick against the team which touched the ball last before it crosses the boundary line (as it was from 1926 - 1939)

But if Spargo touched the ball then they would have received the free (under that rule)  And if Spargo did deflect the ball then I would like to see the vision before making any judgement. 

Besides all that, we lost the game in numerous other ways and if we had have won, those issues would still be being addressed today and ongoing - not sure everyone would have been in raptures

Last night highlighted that we are just not that good a team ... we're in the mix with a number of other teams but if we finish top 4 we'll gain an advantage pre finals.

Long way to go before that possible outcome though ... the next 2 weeks will be full on and if we play like we did last night against the Pies, we will probably lose the QB clash

Last night could be viewed as the loss that taught the team how to go about it for the rest of the season. 

But if we don't learn from it we're in trouble

Edited May 23, 20213 yr by Macca

I can see next week getting very ugly against the dogs if we allow them to follow the same blueprint as Adelaide and North have now. 

We were a mess last night. Adelaide are rebuilding so of course we were always going to be in the game. We're a strong and mature side. 

But the dogs have grunt and class all over the ground and if we allow them to chip and handball around our zone as freely as Adelaide did, we are toast. 

Gawn needs a massive wakeup call. Four weeks now he hasn't asserted himself when needed and he's making some. Fairly crucial mistakes over the course of a game. Dropping marks, trying to mark when he should spoil, shocking taps and sub-par energy levels at the contest. He's our captain, he needs to lead more in key moments and step up the intensity and physicality. 

May's worst game by far, needs to respond. 

Fritsch a genuine liability if the ball isn't on a silver platter. He genuinely has no desire to chase, tackle or get involved off the ball. 

The dogs backline is no better than the crows and we were preety inefficient going inside 50 last night. 

We will get a big smacking if we don't take away the dogs strength and if we get smacked, we're pretending at this stage. 

We should know exactly what they'll do against us. We better be up for the fight. 

 

Edited May 23, 20213 yr by JimmyGadson

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I found myself nearly putting my fist through the wall over this..

 

Yeah, that was pretty bad. Good Lord.

Fritsch is probably the most selfish player in our side. He is a very very good forward who is hard to match up on and has a great goal sense. He’s also very lazy, insipid tackler and an awful set shot. He goes from sensational one week to a liability the next. 

33 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I found myself nearly putting my fist through the wall over this..

 

Maybe they lost the selfless acts last nite, going for individual glory rather than choosing a better option 

1 minute ago, Hogan2014 said:

Maybe they lost the selfless acts last nite, going for individual glory rather than choosing a better option 

It certainly looked that way.

I wondered in the last moments when Melksham went off with that ankle if we couldn't have subbed on sparrow and had fresh legs forward. 

The hysteria from some supporters is laughable.  I have read multiple times Gawn needs to be dropped, Adelaide are a bottom 4 side but when I look at the ladder they are 12th.  There must a secret ladder that I don’t know about it.  Fritsch has a quiet game and people want our best goal kicker dropped.  I even read Trac needs to pull his finger out - that was my tipping.  

I think if you made any of the above comments that it might be time for a few days off Demonland to go searching for some perspective.

Get a grip people!  

Edited May 23, 20213 yr by Demons11

4 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

I wondered in the last moments when Melksham went off with that ankle if we couldn't have subbed on sparrow and had fresh legs forward. 

Any reason why we couldn’t/didn’t?

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

And started tinkering with our forward set up when Brown and Weid became available. I am starting to believe a forward set up with TMac, Jackson and Fritsch with more smalls and runners will end up the preferred. 

Agree with the tinkering, but not sure about the preferred. I still think TMac, Brown, Jackson and one of Fritsch/Melksham can work.

There's a lack of reliability in Fritsch and Jackson's value is higher in the midfield/ruck than forward. So if Fritsch has a bad game, that forward line is really just TMac and the smalls.

For whatever Brown's cons are, one of his pros is he is a constant threat. It's hard for the opposition to ignore him - he's a good mark and as an accurate kick he can't be left alone if he leads wide. 

I thought our mix in the Sydney game was OK (TMac, Brown, Jackson, Fritsch and the smalls, no Melksham, no Weid), and I'd like to see it again.

2 hours ago, hardtack said:

The funny thing is, how many of us would have complained at the beginning of the season if we’d been told we’d be 9-3 by round 12? I suspect most would have scoffed at such a suggestion.
 

I hope there aren’t too many changes to the side, but I get the feeling that we might see Ben Brown back in against the Dogs.

Loser mentality.

38 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Fritsch is probably the most selfish player in our side. He is a very very good forward who is hard to match up on and has a great goal sense. He’s also very lazy, insipid tackler and an awful set shot. He goes from sensational one week to a liability the next. 

What about the other dozen or so players who decided to have a night off?

Right across the board we were awful

I don't disagree with you about Fritsch but he's not a physical player and is more of a pure (tallish) opportunist. 

The question is how many of those types do you have in the same team? 1? 2? ... at the moment we've got more than 2

Spargo, ANB, Weideman, Rivers, Jordon, Jetta, Hunt,  Petty,  Melksham,  Hibberd,  T-Mac,  Pickett & May were all well down on their best

Along with Fritsch that's nearly 2/3rds of the team that took the field

It's any wonder we lost

29 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

The hysteria from some supporters is laughable.  Fritsch has a quiet game and people want our best goal kicker dropped. 

 

Perhaps you should open your eyes.

 

2 of the last 3 games Fritsch has had zero  tackles and 9 or less possessions. He's lazy, insipid and provides zero fwd pressure. To top it off he played selfish footy last night and missed a great opportunity to give Petracca a goal instead trying to dribble the ball through.

His kicking for goal has been pathetic and ;ast night he didn't make the distance from about 40m out.

He can take a break as far as I am concerned.

 

 

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Perhaps you should open your eyes.

 

2 of the last 3 games Fritsch has had zero  tackles and 9 or less possessions. He's lazy, insipid and provides zero fwd pressure. To top it off he played selfish footy last night and missed a great opportunity to give Petracca a goal instead trying to dribble the ball through.

His kicking for goal has been pathetic and ;ast night he didn't make the distance from about 40m out.

He can take a break as far as I am concerned.

 

 

Wow he missed 1 handball to Trac, never play him again.

The bloke is not there for his forward pressure, he is there to finish off the work which he has been doing in the majority of the games.  2 bad games out of 10 and you want him out? Spare me mate 

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

Fritsch a genuine liability if the ball isn't on a silver platter. He genuinely has no desire to chase, tackle or get involved off the ball. 

I think that’s a bit unfair. Watch his 6 goal haul against North and you’ll see a lot of those were from ground ball he’d chased or had positioned himself well to get the loose ball and then managed to work himself into a position where he could take the shot. Only two were from set shots and one of those from a difficult mark over the pack (hardly silver service).

17 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Loser mentality.

Not really... based on the last couple of years, as much as we’d like to think we could win every game, it’s quite a reasonable assumption that most would have said 9-3 was crazy talk.. 

Let’s just get to the bottom of it 

2 out of the last 3 weeks adelaide have failed to kick 40 points.

 

We let them kick 52 points in the first half.

21 minutes ago, hardtack said:

I think that’s a bit unfair. Watch his 6 goal haul against North and you’ll see a lot of those were from ground ball he’d chased or had positioned himself well to get the loose ball and then managed to work himself into a position where he could take the shot. Only two were from set shots and one of those from a difficult mark over the pack (hardly silver service).

It's silver service if you're receiving favourable handballs with little pressure around and/or favourable bounces. 

Fritsch is normally a deadeye [censored] and has great class around goal. Obviously his strengths are dangerous, but everything else is not only average, it's below the required level. So if he's not kicking goals or if the kicks coming in are scrappy like they were last night, what does he provide us? 

His refusal to give that handball to Trac and kick himself was also unforgivable. So selfish. So he's not only not doing the small things off the ball, he's burning team mates. 

Can't have that 

Edited May 23, 20213 yr by JimmyGadson

44 minutes ago, Macca said:

What about the other dozen or so players who decided to have a night off?

Right across the board we were awful

I don't disagree with you about Fritsch but he's not a physical player and is more of a pure (tallish) opportunist. 

The question is how many of those types do you have in the same team? 1? 2? ... at the moment we've got more than 2

Spargo, ANB, Weideman, Rivers, Jordon, Jetta, Hunt,  Petty,  Melksham,  Hibberd,  T-Mac,  Pickett & May were all well down on their best

Along with Fritsch that's nearly 2/3rds of the team that took the field

It's any wonder we lost

I don’t think Fritsch is why we lost. Far from it. Too many players were down and played lazy selfish football. Trac tried to do too much. Harmes doesn’t play to his obvious limitations. Hunt was woeful. ANB and Spargo had zero influence. May had his worst game maybe ever. 
I think Fritsch has had a few very poor outings this year that have been skimmed over because he is a good player who can kick a bag. But we pick on Melksham who is poor defensively, and yet we don’t raise an eyebrow when Fritsch lays 0 tackles. I don’t care if that’s not his primary role. Every player should play with a defensive mindset when they are not in possession of the footy. It’s what makes us such a great team. Fritsch averages 2 tackles a game. Tmac is at 6. That’s all I’m saying. He has to play more defensive, especially when he isn’t having a great game on the scoreboard. Because he isn’t tall and because we have brought him a host of talls recently, he is now playing on a much more attacking defender and it’s been costly. 

Just now, Jaded said:

I don’t think Fritsch is why we lost. Far from it. Too many players were down and played lazy selfish football. Trac tried to do too much. Harmes doesn’t play to his obvious limitations. Hunt was woeful. ANB and Spargo had zero influence. May had his worst game maybe ever. 
I think Fritsch has had a few very poor outings this year that have been skimmed over because he is a good player who can kick a bag. But we pick on Melksham who is poor defensively, and yet we don’t raise an eyebrow when Fritsch lays 0 tackles. I don’t care if that’s not his primary role. Every player should play with a defensive mindset when they are not in possession of the footy. It’s what makes us such a great team. Fritsch averages 2 tackles a game. Tmac is at 6. That’s all I’m saying. He has to play more defensive, especially when he isn’t having a great game on the scoreboard. Because he isn’t tall and because we have brought him a host of talls recently, he is now playing on a much more attacking defender and it’s been costly. 

When you say 'we' pick on Melksham it's more the loud minority here

Certainly not me ... I hate scapegoating with a passion (although I did critique ANB on another thread ..  without including others who make the same sorts of errors)

So it's not just about Fritsch when 2/3rds of the team have a night off

For instance replacing Fritsch leaves us with a stack of others who underperformed last night

To be fair, some of those who were down like T-Mac, May,  Hunt,  Rivers & Jordon have all played well this season (to date)

Spargo,  Hunt,  Weideman,  ANB,  Hibberd,  Pickett,  Jetta and 1 or 2 others need to find their best form (along with Fritsch)

We've been off the boil since the Richmond win,  that much is true

There were a lot of players off song yesterday but if I was to try to distill into an over-arching theme I would say our attitude was wrong and has been for a few weeks now. We’ve covered over this reality because our defence has been excellent.

An attitude adjustment will cure a lot of our ills (although structure forward is still an issue)

Time to draw a line under this game and focus on the doggies. Time to sharpen up and bring the pressure and intensity that typified our wins v the Tiges and Cats. Clarry led the way yesterday. The other senior players, Trac, Max, May, Lever and TMac need to step up and follow his example.

No passengers next week. It has to be a 22 man manic effort else we’re not going to win.

18 hours ago, AmsterdamDeesFan said:

Spewing. Weideman can get traded, what a non-entity that bloke is.

Unfortunately, this most recent game may have actually reduced his trade value. A couple of weeks ago sections of the media were suggesting that 3 or 4 clubs might be interested in his services and estimated his value as a late first round trade. He needs to be in stellar form to be picked again I reckon.

19 minutes ago, Macca said:

When you say 'we' pick on Melksham it's more the loud minority here

Certainly not me ... I hate scapegoating with a passion (although I did critique ANB on another thread ..  without including others who make the same sorts of errors)

So it's not just about Fritsch when 2/3rds of the team have a night off

For instance replacing Fritsch leaves us with a stack of others who underperformed last night

To be fair, some of those who were down like T-Mac, May,  Hunt,  Rivers & Jordon have all played well this season (to date)

Spargo,  Hunt,  Weideman,  ANB,  Hibberd,  Pickett,  Jetta and 1 or 2 others need to find their best form (along with Fritsch)

We've been off the boil since the Richmond win,  that much is true

Yep, we were definitely on song against the Tigers. The most decisive, cleanest ball movement I've seen by the club in many years. We also haven't come close to replicating it since that game, although I missed the Carlton game.

When Lever pushed the Adelaide guy square in the back unnecessarily I knew we were in for a long night. You just can't give easy goals up when you're playing away.