Off-season outlook: Pressure will be on Melbourne and Simon Goodwin

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

38 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

I went to a talk by the Richmond mindfulness coach, Emma Murray a couple of years ago and it was very interesting to hear her talk about their approach to breaking out of negative self talk and mid game slumps. Unless she was BS’ing the conference delegates, it is definitely mindfulness techniques but vastly simplified to help an AFL player remember and be able to execute it on the field. They use focus change (both physical and mental) and re-orientation back to the hear and now. This is classic mindfulness but they really bought into it as a group and worked both in group sessions and 1-1 to train it in and reinforce. Obviously she would have somewhat of a bias about it’s contribution to their success but it sounded like the whole club has  attributed a great deal of their turn around to mindfulness and their ability to arrest mid-game form slumps and negativity.

They have really taken 'mindfulness' on board and trained it into players who have been very accepting of the techniques.  This is a good example of how it worked in the 2020 GF.  why-the-richmond-rooms-were-so-hectic-at-half-time

Apparently she always goes into the rooms at half time and she helps settle players and deal with their doubts.  I'm sure she was a key part of 'flicking the switch' in player's minds at half time to get them to come out to win.  The work she can do at half time is tweaking, tweaking that works because it is based on years of training the fundamental mind techniques so players only need reminders during games.

We need a program that trains player's minds as well as their bodies and skills so players know when and how to 'flick the switch' during games and to get support in those techniques at the breaks.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[Stein9193 129]

Some of the stuff in this thread has been really weird. Get a grip.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

They have really taken 'mindfulness' on board and trained it into players who have been very accepting of the techniques.  This is a good example of how it worked in the 2020 GF.  why-the-richmond-rooms-were-so-hectic-at-half-time

Apparently she always goes into the rooms at half time and she helps settle players and deal with their doubts.  I'm sure she was a key part of 'flicking the switch' in player's minds at half time to get them to come out to win.  The work she can do at half time is tweaking, tweaking that works because it is based on years of training the fundamental mind techniques so players only need reminders during games.

We need a program that trains player's minds as well as their bodies and skills so players know when and how to 'flick the switch' during games and to get support in those techniques at the breaks.

Yes i have thought this for years

Halftime is so often a reset. 
including what worked and what didn’t

[Demonstone 22,526]

37 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

Get a grip.

J. Patton endorses this comment.

[drysdale demon 4,836]

4 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

i know this may be of no interest to others and certainly not saying I was a good footballer, but recently I remembered a game from my youth. I had been dropped for the first time ever and the following week I was selected at fullback after failing playing forward. A lively full forward kicked two on me in the opening minutes. Somehow I  held him kickless for the remainder of the game and reading your post I now realise I just concentrated fully on my man and my positioning, holding and punching the ball every time the ball came down. its something used a lot in basketball as well. Massive concentration on the ball, rather than the player doing fancy moves.

So you think the players should show more initiative during games and be held accountable when they fail to do so.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

23 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

So you think the players should show more initiative during games and be held accountable when they fail to do so.

Mmmm. difficult one, some players are better with initiative than others. we have seen Selwood and other great captains show initiative to win games at crucial moments. I think as example, Petracca could be allowed to show initiative to drift towards goals as games are on the line.

Accountable,  we have a core of senior players who have no excuses bar injury or occasional poor form to not perform to a very high standard. Most other things other than a training base seem to be covered. 

[binman 42,972]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:00 PM, dworship said:

If you go back several years I've posted previously about a program I was involved in, now more than 20yrs ago (I can hear the young'ns groaning already). I haven't engaged directly with you on the matter but your post prompted me to mention it again. As you have quoted; Coaches don't appear to have an overt influence on performance per say. All this talk about  Game Plan and the programs around "Leading Teams" and "Commando Training" are great for showing what can be done but I've never believed it really takes hold mentally and becomes ingrained "behaviors". What I was taught in the program I did was; if you haven't done the mind training then when you let go of the rudder you will go back to the old habits. Clary was a point in case this year, Burgo had said to him "if you're clear, take three quick steps before releasing the ball". I saw this implemented a few times in games to great effect and then gradually saw Clary revert to habit. The follow up techniques to support this change are not being taught.

Most on here would say; well that's a coaching problem. But you don't know what you don't know. Binman you have done some great reading/research/posting on the subject so I'll challenge you to pursue my comments by looking at Coach Nick Saban of Alabama Crimson Tide football team and the record in the 7 or so years before he arrived. Why has he been so successful since? I'll give you a hint, they invested in a program that is more focused on individual performance (and no it doesn't give up team focus). Yes, the same program I did 20yrs ago is still being taught to the new players in 2020. I'll leave you with a snippet from Saben. 

 

Thanks Dworship, interesting stuff (the post and the clip).

My takeaways are:

• It reinforces the importance of coaching, however as you suggest more in terms of the importance of coaching as it relates to the development of players, particularly personal development 
• Nick Saban does not explicitly make this point but implies that the development of players is a team effort, with the involvement of range of coaches and key staff
• Nick Saban emphasizes that helping players develop than elite mindset is critical - they need to have 'champion' mindset
• The top of the pyramid (the team goal) is not winning a championship - it is everyone being the best they can be, a champion team 9and a team of champions?) and a winning mindset (eg dominating their opponents).
• The implication being winning will take care of itself with these other things in place
• Saban doesn't mention himself as one of the key parts of the winning 'pyramid' or things about tactics, game style, technique etc etc (he might have them as elements, he just didn't mention them)
• Your post and the Saban clip reinforce the good points that Deespencer made about success being a function of any number of detail, samll and lareg - eg admin, governance, resourcing, facilities, development, etc etc

And finally, perhaps it is is confirmation bias, but it also reinforces that the key element of success is the players.

As Suban notes ,it is the exception, not the norm that some people want to be the very best they can be and strive for excellence.

Of course development is critical but the base he is working from is players who want to be the best. Good development program gives players the best chance of realising that goal - but no amount of development will make up for a lack of personal drive. Which is why elite sports put so much emphasis in the drafting process on character.

And the other related point is development and indeed tools such as mindfulness area all about preparing the players for optimal performance on game day. Development as investment.

But once the whistle blows it is pretty much all down to the players to ensure their performance reflects that investment and they perform at their optimal level.

Edited January 12, 2021 by binman

[58er 6,440]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Mmmm. difficult one, some players are better with initiative than others. we have seen Selwood and other great captains show initiative to win games at crucial moments. I think as example, Petracca could be allowed to show initiative to drift towards goals as games are on the line.

Accountable,  we have a core of senior players who have no excuses bar injury or occasional poor form to not perform to a very high standard. Most other things other than a training base seem to be covered. 

HFF When  a Player reaches a standard ( elite) as Trac has displayed last season  Coaches encourage Them to use their initiative and it just comes naturally with the champions and A graders of the game. "Allowed" is not the mantra but expected of these stars. When we get a dozen of our players able  to do this in the team environment and instinct rather than stilted and rehearsed moves we will be a team of speed and skill and the middle tier will be dragged along on this ride like the lesser lights at the Tigers are now. 
Each player knows his role within the team but all are given leeway And expected to create play for the teams benefit.

We will play like Hawks did and be on the move looking for opportunitues to kick goals or get out of trouble down back or breakaway on the wing with 3 bounces!

Snd it will happen on the run at some speed and precision. 

[old55 23,576]

As many have posted - the coach has to train and select the "right" players, but once the game starts it's mostly up to the selected players to deliver the result. 

I think we've lacked on-field in game leadership over the years.  Jones and Viney seem to be introverts and focus on their own game rather than directing the traffic - sure they may think they "lead by example" but it's not enough.

I think the sometimes maligned Jordan Lewis probably gave us a lot in this area - I note we were 12-7 in 2017 and 16-8 in 2018 when he played.  I think his contribution may have been undervalued in those years - including by me - because he wasn't the player he once was and didn't always go.

Now I think the backline is well placed with May and Lever.

I think Max is a respected and very capable leader at providing team social cohesion but I'm not confident about his ability to be the general in the midfield and direct traffic.  Petracca and Oliver are tremendous players but are they going to co-ordinate the action?  I think probably Brayshaw is the man most likely in this area to have the required qualities - hopefully with full length games he can return to his best position as part of the midfield rotation and be in a position to direct.

I think part of the FD love for AVB are his leadership attributes but can he command a best 22 spot on output?

Melksham was the leader of a very inexperienced forward line in 2020 (as evidenced by his role as stand-in team captain) and that's possibly why he retained his position despite some very ordinary form.  For all his playing limitations ANB is possibly the man most likely to have the personality and intelligence lead in this area, but again can he command a best 22 spot on output?  Maybe Ben Brown can bring a major contribution down there. 

Until these on field leaders emerge and direct I think we will continue to struggle with consistency.

[binman 42,972]

Agree pollyana. As I think bing181 noted the dees have lacked strong on field leadership for a long time.

I think we are heading in the right direction in tgis regard but I fully concede that could be wishful thinking.

[dworship 3,342]

5 hours ago, binman said:

Thanks Dworship, interesting stuff (the post and the clip).

My takeaways are:

• It reinforces the importance of coaching, however as you suggest more in terms of the importance of coaching as it relates to the development of players, particularly personal development 
• Nick Saban does not explicitly make this point but implies that the development of players is a team effort, with the involvement of range of coaches and key staff
• Nick Saban emphasizes that helping players develop than elite mindset is critical - they need to have 'champion' mindset
• The top of the pyramid (the team goal) is not winning a championship - it is everyone being the best they can be, a champion team 9and a team of champions?) and a winning mindset (eg dominating their opponents).
• The implication being winning will take care of itself with these other things in place
• Saban doesn't mention himself as one of the key parts of the winning 'pyramid' or things about tactics, game style, technique etc etc (he might have them as elements, he just didn't mention them)
• Your post and the Saban clip reinforce the good points that Deespencer made about success being a function of any number of detail, samll and lareg - eg admin, governance, resourcing, facilities, development, etc etc

And finally, perhaps it is is confirmation bias, but it also reinforces that the key element of success is the players.

As Suban notes ,it is the exception, not the norm that some people want to be the very best they can be and strive for excellence.

Of course development is critical but the base he is working from is players who want to be the best. Good development program gives players the best chance of realising that goal - but no amount of development will make up for a lack of personal drive. Which is why elite sports put so much emphasis in the drafting process on character.

And the other related point is development and indeed tools such as mindfulness area all about preparing the players for optimal performance on game day. Development as investment.

But once the whistle blows it is pretty much all down to the players to ensure their performance reflects that investment and they perform at their optimal level.

Thanks Binman, I haven't looked but it would be interesting find a clip of Saban talking about the program today. The "Tide" certainly turned their results around quickly and have continued to be one of the most dominant teams in the highly competative College Football scene. This has meant they can attract highend talent every year and the system and results become self perpetuating. The football department program generates profits for the University of between $20million and $30million a year. As I've been writing this Bama have finished as the Champions for the seventh time in 13 years. We should be so lucky. There is some talk about Saban retiring but I think the team will have continued success becuase of the program.

[jules7 792]

Love this topic, awesome input, thanks to everyone. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

16 hours ago, dworship said:

Thanks Binman, I haven't looked but it would be interesting find a clip of Saban talking about the program today. The "Tide" certainly turned their results around quickly and have continued to be one of the most dominant teams in the highly competative College Football scene. This has meant they can attract highend talent every year and the system and results become self perpetuating. The football department program generates profits for the University of between $20million and $30million a year. As I've been writing this Bama have finished as the Champions for the seventh time in 13 years. We should be so lucky. There is some talk about Saban retiring but I think the team will have continued success becuase of the program.

I wonder why Saban didn't reach the same heights as an NFL coach?

Quote

 

“Well, the day I landed in Miami and went to the first press conference,” Saban said Thursday evening, according to AL.com. “I started to realize the difference between the NFL then and what the NFL was like before when I was in it with Bill Belichick from 1991-94 in Cleveland, before we had free agency, before the media had infiltrated sorta everything that was happening. I guess right then.”

That wasn’t a big enough warning sign to leave South Beach right away, however. There was another outlier that drove him to leave South Beach: the inability to control his own destiny. When Drew Brees failed his physical with Miami, he ended up in New Orleans and the Dolphins signed Daunte Culpepper. (Hint: that didn’t work.)

He stayed for two seasons before infamously departing for Alabama.

“When that happened, I said I can’t control my destiny here,” Saban said. “I can’t control my destiny here. There’s too many things that, no matter how hard I work or no matter what I do, I can control my destiny better in college by working hard and making good choices and decisions and creating a good program for players.

 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/heres-why-nick-saban-knew-he-wasnt-a-fit-for-the-nfl/

[bing181 9,238]

"In team sport I have always believed champion players make champion coaches, not vice versa ..."

Leigh Matthews