Full Review of the AFL called for by Swans and Hawks

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

Could this be the start of the end for some clubs....

"Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett has joined Swans chairman Andrew Pridham in calling for an independent review into the AFL's entire operations.....

Kennett said the review should look into all aspects of the league, including the number of teams, which is presently 18.......

The pandemic has ushered in a period of significant upheaval for the AFL. Clubs and the league have been forced to cut large numbers of staff, while a re-negotiated pay deal with the players remains in limbo.

The vast majority of club members did not request a refund – a financial lifeline for the AFL – however fears remain over what will happen with memberships next year as Victoria and the country battle through a recession.

There is also no clarity on whether crowds will be allowed back at Victorian games next season, given the unpredictability of the pandemic in the state."

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-sydney-presidents-call-for-independent-review-into-afl-20201015-p565em.html

 

[old dee 22,966]

With luck we might get some people running the game who are outside of the old boys club that runs it now . It is vital over the next couple years to have no or low debt. Clubs like North Melbourne must be close to extinction. Makes the need to offer members something extra if they want reasonable numbers. 

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

With luck we might get some people running the game who are outside of the old boys club that runs it now . It is vital over the next couple years to have no or low debt. Clubs like North Melbourne must be close to extinction. Makes the need to offer members something extra if they want reasonable numbers. 

Kennett is running hard on the financial Independence ticket.No secret that both the Swans and Brisbane don't like a second team in their market.

That's three clubs. They would need six more to upset the present cabal.

My feeling is that both Adelaide and Perth are tired of the Victorian dominance and you could expect Port and Freo to join them.

That leaves two more from Victoria... Interesting times

Without Samuel or Fitzpatrick the AFL Commission is not the mensa organisation it used to be.

[old dee 22,966]

1 minute ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Kennett is running hard on the financial Independence ticket.No secret that both the Swans and Brisbane don't like a second team in their market.

That's three clubs. They would need six more to upset the present cabal.

My feeling is that both Adelaide and Perth are tired of the Victorian dominance and you could expect Port and Freo to join them.

That leaves two more from Victoria... Interesting times

Without Samuel or Fitzpatrick the AFL Commission is not the mensa organisation it used to be.

As much as it grieves me to say but being finiancial sound may be the biggest element of the next couple of years.

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

As much as it grieves me to say but being finiancial sound may be the biggest element of the next couple of years.

The power struggle going on in the EPL at present is informative.

Many people have been waiting a while to act and the pandemic has provided them with the opportunity to do so.

 

[BDA 20,549]

The AFL in its current guise is unsustainable. The suns are a waste of time and money. A drain. GWS not much better. All the while, Tasmania, a genuine footy state and capable of supporting a team with a leg up is ignored.

HQ full of suits, consultants and hangers on that contribute zip to the game. I mean, half those roles have gone as a result of the pandemic and you wouldn’t notice.

The AFL is run by a few for the benefit of a few. All that money flows to the top to pay an elite group of administrators and players. It’s wrong. I’d much prefer to see a model whereby much more funds were distributed to local footy clubs and facilities, coaching for kids, grassroots. The game is for the people not for a few to enrich themselves.

It would be a silver lining if the pandemic forced a re-think and a more egalitarian model. Won’t happen though. Too many powerful clubs and vested interests. Too much money at stake. All that'll happen is a couple of clubs get squeezed out and their share divvied up amongst the remainder.

[Rossmillan 498]

Eddie suggested on footy classified, that the AFLPA were getting 5x the funds that an individual club was getting.  
 

I suspect with the cash drying up, as per any business, it will need to look at where it’s money is being spent and this is the start of a power struggle to decide where the cuts are made

[Fritta and Turner 3,811]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

With luck we might get some people running the game who are outside of the old boys club that runs it now . It is vital over the next couple years to have no or low debt. Clubs like North Melbourne must be close to extinction. Makes the need to offer members something extra if they want reasonable numbers. 

Why is it vital to have no or low debt?  Interest rates are at historical lows.  It is vital to roll it over though.

[Moonshadow 16,367]

Would be interesting to read a report of each club's finances without the creative accounting

Don't Brisbane and Carlton have significant debts? Interest rates are very low, but they won't always be so.

Did the Hawks take a loan on Dingley or did they fund it themselves? Careful Jeff... there but for the grace of god go I.

North must surely be in trouble. 'Tassie Kangaroos' sounds good to me. 

The pandemic will create opportunities for long lasting change in the AFL

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Moonshadow

[whatwhat say what 19,511]

10 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Would be interesting to read a report of each club's finances without the creative accounting

Don't Brisbane and Carlton have significant debts? Interest rates are very low, but they won't always be so.

Did the Hawks take a loan on Dingley or did they fund it themselves? Careful Jeff... there but for the grace of god go I.

North must surely be in trouble. 'Tassie Kangaroos' sounds good to me. 

The pandemic will create opportunities for long lasting change in the AFL

 

never waste a crisis, as they say...

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Did the Hawks take a loan on Dingley or did they fund it themselves? Careful Jeff... there but for the grace of god go I.

The Hawks IIRC were going to fund around 33% by debt, 33% foundation money (supporters) and 33% government money.

Here's a 2015 article... couldn't find a newer one

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/hawthorn-hawks/hawthorn-plan-to-relocate-to-dingley-debt-free-confident-it-wont-risk-financial-future-ng-397a3ad16c8c4692ff108ddfae5c6af2

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

North's assets are negligible unless you think you can sell the training facilities in Arden Street which are on Crown land with restricted use leases.

Saints are in deep debt and 2020 would not have helped.

Ideally 2 more clubs out of Melbourne ?????

If however you get rid of Suns and GWS..... a 14 team comp seems to work nicely

Mind you a 12 team comp allows a home and away between every team !!

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,370]

Can someone please explain to me how some VIC clubs are going survive next year if they’re still hubbing in SE Queensland and playing in front of 1,000 people at Metricon?

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,332]

I saw Eddie mention that North Melbourne could play 11 games in Melbourne and 11 in Tasmania. Where is the fairness of them having what in effect would be 22 'home' games over two bases with no travel to WA, SA, NSW or Qld ? With only 9 clubs left in Victoria does that mean that 2 unlucky interstate sides would have to play their home fixture against them here in Melbourne ? Let's not forget that this guy is on the competition committee. 

[Superunknown 3,391]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Can someone please explain to me how some VIC clubs are going survive next year if they’re still hubbing in SE Queensland and playing in front of 1,000 people at Metricon?

Because you'll be able to increase your gate receipts at Metricon and the YoGabbaGabba beyond 1000 souls given QLD's Covid numbers.

 

Sure, it's not normal, but it's not mid July2020 doom.

[dl4e 5,642]

Get rid of the suns and gws. From Vic North and the saints can go. Hawthorn down to tassie. Carlton can merge with Essendon. The filth can merge with Richmond. That will keep people happy.

[drdrake 3,048]

The AFL do need to relocate sides but the concern is players won't stay.  Ideally GWS should be in Canberra, Gold Coast should have been in Tassie however Tassie is the fall back for a failing club, the Bulldogs or North should be in Ballarat.

The AFL banked on the lifestyle in Sydney and Gold coast to keep players at the club.  How long they can keep funding this time will tell.

Geelong is a successful club as they have a hole region of supporters and own stadium.  They also target kids from the Geelong falcons and go after players that have been recruited to other clubs from their region.  Need to replicate this in other large regional areas, Ballarat is ideal 1 hour from Melbourne, existing stadium which can be continued to be developed.

You could also make a case for a club to move to the East, Gippsland way giving them Eastern Ranges and Dandenong Stingrays and you build like Geelong.  You could have Geelong, Ballarat and Pakenham, basically the 100km rim outside Melbourne.

 

[whatwhat say what 19,511]

i have always heard that the afl hierarchy was more focused on expansion rather than contraction

i personally can't see the new northern franchises disappearing, which means it's the small vic clubs which are under pressure: north, saints, footscray, and us are the obvious low hanging fruit

fingers crossed we survive any impending cull

[Wunders 389]

2 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i have always heard that the afl hierarchy was more focused on expansion rather than contraction

i personally can't see the new northern franchises disappearing, which means it's the small vic clubs which are under pressure: north, saints, footscray, and us are the obvious low hanging fruit

fingers crossed we survive any impending cull

If they were ever going to cut or move a club, North Melbourne is in the best (worst) position for them to do this.. potentially 1/3rd of their list moved on, most coaches gone, low membership etc. and combine this with COVID.

So if the AFL don't move North this year i can't see them ever moving a victorian club (or any club for that matter).

[Moonshadow 16,367]

I have heard a bit of chatter around that in one form or another North will be pushed to Tassie, and that internally the AFL are keen on a StK/Footscray merger

 

[old dee 22,966]

39 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i have always heard that the afl hierarchy was more focused on expansion rather than contraction

i personally can't see the new northern franchises disappearing, which means it's the small vic clubs which are under pressure: north, saints, footscray, and us are the obvious low hanging fruit

fingers crossed we survive any impending cull

Not while we have Gil in charge. We need a new chief  from outside the current old boys club. Someone who does not need to save face. 

[The Chazz 4,077]

North's alliance with Tas might be  blessing for us.  While I would give the game up if it happened, a Melb/North merger makes a lot of sense given both teams have the "Melbourne" name, and North have a home that is quite close to the CBD, and we don't.

But I think the work that North have done in establishing their brand down there makes that move a lot cleaner.  And if the AFL want to save more dollars, having North and the Gold Coast merge and relocate to Tassie would be a logical option.

The above scenario would mean an uneven amount of teams in the comp, but as we've seen this year, the fixture can work in a non-traditional format (such as games during the week).  It got to the stage where I had no idea what round it was or who was having a bye.  This solves the broadcasting concerns of one less game a weekend.

Personally, I can't see them doing anything to GWS, I think they are in it for the long haul.  Likewise I can't see a Bulldogs/Saints merger.

As a side note, I wish they would publish the membership numbers of full memberships per club, and not include the 3-game ones, baby members, pet memberships, etc.

 

[old dee 22,966]

3 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

North's alliance with Tas might be  blessing for us.  While I would give the game up if it happened, a Melb/North merger makes a lot of sense given both teams have the "Melbourne" name, and North have a home that is quite close to the CBD, and we don't.

But I think the work that North have done in establishing their brand down there makes that move a lot cleaner.  And if the AFL want to save more dollars, having North and the Gold Coast merge and relocate to Tassie would be a logical option.

The above scenario would mean an uneven amount of teams in the comp, but as we've seen this year, the fixture can work in a non-traditional format (such as games during the week).  It got to the stage where I had no idea what round it was or who was having a bye.  This solves the broadcasting concerns of one less game a weekend.

Personally, I can't see them doing anything to GWS, I think they are in it for the long haul.  Likewise I can't see a Bulldogs/Saints merger.

As a side note, I wish they would publish the membership numbers of full memberships per club, and not include the 3-game ones, baby members, pet memberships, etc.

 

After the failure of our merger I don't think there will ever be one in the future. What will probably happen is a club will get into the Fitzroy position. The AFL will take it over and either move it or close it up. 

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

Hawthorn's revenue structure would take a decent hit if it were to lose the Tasmanian Government funding.

 

[Diamond_Jim 11,971]

21 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

As a side note, I wish they would publish the membership numbers of full memberships per club, and not include the 3-game ones, baby members, pet memberships, etc.

 

I think they got rid of the pet memberships but I'll add another category... sponsor held memberships