Trade Targets

[dino rover 714]

1 hour ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Jetta and Jones are certainties.

Would be great if we could get Nietzsche to a debut but admit, this one is likely.

Hore is great depth but given we just recruited a 19-year-old interceptor, he's probably out.

I hope we hang on to Bedford. I think he has a combination of attributes that very few AFL players have.

His acceleration over the first 10 metres with ball in hand is as good as anyone in the game, then you add to that his great tank and you have the potential for something pretty great.

His form in the VFL would warrant a call up to any AFL side except the 2021 Demons.

I think Lockhart stays - not for any reason other than, l sense that the coaches love him. That said, there's a few vying for that small back position and Jake Bowey might have gone past him, so who knows.

I think Bedford is cover for Messiah and Spartacus

[Slartibartfast 17,985]

7 hours ago, rpfc said:

Ok so hate to burst bubbles but we are, by all reports, close to the cap.

We have just over $13m maybe an extra $100k or so next year.

We have the following established stars that would all be on $750k+ from next year or the year after with CP5; May, Lever, Gawn, Oliver. Let’s say ~$800k x 4 = $3.2m

Next level down would have to be $600k - $750k; Salem, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Langdon, McDonald. ~$700k x 6 = $4.2m

Under that - the above average contract of around $400k-$600k would have; Harmes, Hibberd, Melksham, Tomlinson, ANB, Fritsch. ~$500k x 6 = $3m

Jones, Jackson, Spargo, Bedford, Laurie, Bowie, Rosman, Hore, VDB, Jordon, Rivers, Weideman, Nietschke, Daw, Hunt, Sparrow, Baker, D Smith, Pickett, Petty, Chandler, M Brown, Jetta, Declase, Lockhart, Turner, J Smith, Bradtke would be cheaper than average salary right now. Rookies are ~$100k x 20 = $2m and the other 8 on ~$250k = $2m

That adds up to ~$14.4m. The OOC players are only in the lower category save for Hibberd, and we have players to retain.

I don’t think we are in that hunt anymore, we have our stars and until we lose a slot - we have to maintain what we have and keep our promising (and cheaper) kids around.

 

I don't pretend to know what players are paid but there are a number of things to take into account.

First is the marketing allowance clubs are allowed.  Second is your estimate of costs for the lowest bracket are probably overestimated.  The vast majority of those players would be on a very low base plus incentives for games played.  Not many of those given our good run with injury.

Third is the fact that for years we paid the minimum TPP required by front ending contracts.  That builds up a "bank" that can be carried forward.  This may have run out, who know, but perhaps it hasn't. 

And finally this team seems to be singlemindedly focused on team success.  If you went to the top six or eight players and asked them to sacrifice some dollars to get a very good player in who they believed would significantly increase our chances of a flag they'd probably do it.

And as has been stated already players like Tommy Mac and others would extend contracts allowing lower amounts next year also freeing up cap space.

What I'm really getting at is there are lots of things that can be done to free up cap space.  I'm absolutely confident we would have done our planning and know what we can do to retain our players and identify cap space and I think there would be more than you imagine. 

But having said all that there isn't much we need, the deal would have to be pretty compelling.  Our weakness is small and medium backs.  Hibberd is getting old, Jetta also, Bowey unproven, Lockhart unlikely and I'm not sold on Hunt.  That leaves Salem and Rivers.

[dino rover 714]

it will be interesting to see who plays wing at Casey between Baker, Rosman and DeClase. It may indicate DeClase is more a cover in defense than a wing option given Tomlinson, Langdon, Brayshaw etc as well as Baker and Rosman. If however DeClase plays wing it might indicate a lack of confidence in Baker / Rosman as backups for Langdon, Brayshaw

Edited June 11, 2021 by dino rover
adding an observation

[WERRIDEE 5,571]

We don't need to trade unless Weid wants out. In the draft we should get Andrew, Woewodin and George. Delist Jetta, Jones, Hore (put him on the rookie list), Vandenberg and Baker. Promote Jordon and Chandler.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Yes Agree Cheesy Bowey a rplacement for Hibbo 2023 and Rosman a replacement for Langton. We also have Tomlinson to consider

What about Bradke after Jackson is he still required ?we have put a bit of work into him

 

Usually, you just persist with ruckman and we do need to have a spare, but I think the draft will decide Bradtke's fate.

If we end up with Mac Andrew, it's hard to see a project player like Bradtke staying on.

[rpfc 28,895]

8 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I don't pretend to know what players are paid but there are a number of things to take into account.

First is the marketing allowance clubs are allowed.  Second is your estimate of costs for the lowest bracket are probably overestimated.  The vast majority of those players would be on a very low base plus incentives for games played.  Not many of those given our good run with injury.

Third is the fact that for years we paid the minimum TPP required by front ending contracts.  That builds up a "bank" that can be carried forward.  This may have run out, who know, but perhaps it hasn't. 

And finally this team seems to be singlemindedly focused on team success.  If you went to the top six or eight players and asked them to sacrifice some dollars to get a very good player in who they believed would significantly increase our chances of a flag they'd probably do it.

And as has been stated already players like Tommy Mac and others would extend contracts allowing lower amounts next year also freeing up cap space.

What I'm really getting at is there are lots of things that can be done to free up cap space.  I'm absolutely confident we would have done our planning and know what we can do to retain our players and identify cap space and I think there would be more than you imagine. 

But having said all that there isn't much we need, the deal would have to be pretty compelling.  Our weakness is small and medium backs.  Hibberd is getting old, Jetta also, Bowey unproven, Lockhart unlikely and I'm not sold on Hunt.  That leaves Salem and Rivers.

There’s always things we can do - including moving on a player, my point is just a general ‘we have less wriggle room’ than we have ever had and it will be very difficult to bring in another Lever or Langdon.

And I disagree about the bottom 20. I think I am underselling how much of the cap they take up.

[58er 6,809]

4 minutes ago, dino rover said:

it will be interesting to see who plays wing at Casey between Baker, Rosman and DeClase. It may indicate DeClase is more cover in defense than a wing option given Tomlinson, Langdon, Brayshaw etc as well as Baker and Rosman. If however DeClase play wing it might indicate a lack of confidence in Baker / Rosman as backups for Langdon, Brayshaw

Have you not moved on ??

Tommo will not be a regular winger unless switched there during a game or selected for a game such as last round to cover for Ed. 
 

Declase as a winger or floating forward  would be an X factor hard for any team to handle just as when Rosman develops to be a regular for AFL duties. 

[58er 6,809]

49 minutes ago, MadAsHell said:

I'll give you that.

Not wrong. Though to be fair he's mainly been played as a pressure forward. Not saying he'd be a super recruit just one option amongst 4 others I suggested as a cheap option.

Personally I'd love to see us turn Lochie O'Brien around or pry Jeremy Sharp from Gold Coast. But also I wouldn't be shattered to see Dean Kent return.

Sorry Mad as aHell are you delusional?

Why Kent Talk about bringing back a list clogger? who was injured half the time.

he can't get a game at the Saints  now who would he replace on our list ?  

He us not our future and it's completely disrespectful to any of our HFFers to even suggest this  crazy option. 

Was really never in our best 22 we moved him on at  his request so move on FFS.

[Marcus94 100]

Should we look at Quinton Narkle? He would probably come on the cheap and I reckon he could play Melks role and also go in the midfield.

[MadAsHell 4,217]

1 minute ago, 58er said:

Sorry Mad as aHell are you delusional?

Why Kent Talk about bringing back a list clogger? who was injured half the time.

he can't get a game at the Saints  now who would he replace on our list ?  

He us not our future and it's completely disrespectful to any of our HFFers to even suggest this  crazy option. 

Was really never in our best 22 we moved him on at  his request so move on FFS.

Are your eyes painted on @58er or do you just struggle to read?

Where have I said we should target Kent? I've listed him as an option along with several others and in the quote you referenced, have even said there's two others I'd clearly favour ahead of him

I also fail to see what's disrespectful to our HFFers when I've said we could put him on a wing??? Again if you could actually read you'd see I've said Baker would be the one to make way (wingman) which is who Kent or any of the others names I listed would replace.

I will stick up for him that he was in our 22, but was just injured all the time that made him that irregular in the team. If it weren't for his shoulder injury in Round 23, he would have been in our 22 in the finals that year, no doubt.

[58er 6,809]

7 hours ago, rpfc said:

Ok so hate to burst bubbles but we are, by all reports, close to the cap.

We have just over $13m maybe an extra $100k or so next year.

We have the following established stars that would all be on $750k+ from next year or the year after with CP5; May, Lever, Gawn, Oliver. Let’s say ~$800k x 4 = $3.2m

Next level down would have to be $600k - $750k; Salem, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Langdon, McDonald. ~$700k x 6 = $4.2m

Under that - the above average contract of around $400k-$600k would have; Harmes, Hibberd, Melksham, Tomlinson, ANB, Fritsch. ~$500k x 6 = $3m

Jones, Jackson, Spargo, Bedford, Laurie, Bowie, Rosman, Hore, VDB, Jordon, Rivers, Weideman, Nietschke, Daw, Hunt, Sparrow, Baker, D Smith, Pickett, Petty, Chandler, M Brown, Jetta, Declase, Lockhart, Turner, J Smith, Bradtke would be cheaper than average salary right now. Rookies are ~$100k x 20 = $2m and the other 8 on ~$250k = $2m

That adds up to ~$14.4m. The OOC players are only in the lower category save for Hibberd, and we have players to retain.

I don’t think we are in that hunt anymore, we have our stars and until we lose a slot - we have to maintain what we have and keep our promising (and cheaper) kids around.

 

This is about as speculative as a salary cap report as I have ever read. 
Done by an amateur with no credible knowledge of the figures of our list.

Just pure speculation!! Based upon a rumour it seems. 

If we were so close to the cap how come we just added $160,000 for Kye Declase and Daniel Turner plus the SSP of Daw and Deakyn Smith ? 
 

I can list the following who  will probably not be on our list next season 

Nev Jonesy Majak Daw AVB Marty Hore Maybe  Joel Smith maybe  Jake Melksham Bradtke Neitschke. Possibly Oscar Baker. Plenty of wriggle room and to rookie or list Turner and Declase and Deakin Smith.plus trade and draft our needs. Up to 11 players may be not at the Dees in 2022.

 

[58er 6,809]

7 minutes ago, MadAsHell said:

Are your eyes painted on @58er or do you just struggle to read?

Where have I said we should target Kent? I've listed him as an option along with several others and in the quote you referenced, have even said there's two others I'd clearly favour ahead of him

I also fail to see what's disrespectful to our HFFers when I've said we could put him on a wing??? Again if you could actually read you'd see I've said Baker would be the one to make way (wingman) which is who Kent or any of the others names I listed would replace.

I will stick up for him that he was in our 22, but was just injured all the time that made him that irregular in the team. If it weren't for his shoulder injury in Round 23, he would have been in our 22 in the finals that year, no doubt.

By even suggesting Deans name for  any position nearly 4 years on is in itself enough to comment on the thought process. MasH! 

[dino rover 714]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Have you not moved on ??

Tommo will not be a regular winger unless switched there during a game or selected for a game such as last round to cover for Ed. 
 

Declase as a winger or floating forward  would be an X factor hard for any team to handle just as when Rosman develops to be a regular for AFL duties. 

No I haven't because he is an option at wing and petty is performing in the backline

[Fat Tony 5,303]

Older players at clubs outside the premiership window should be targets. Players like Sidebottom, Breust and Seedsman would give us some outside class and complement our strengths.

[Redleg 41,933]

3 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

We don't need to trade unless Weid wants out. In the draft we should get Andrew, Woewodin and George. Delist Jetta, Jones, Hore (put him on the rookie list), Vandenberg and Baker. Promote Jordon and Chandler.

I had completely forgotten about VDB. 

[rpfc 28,895]

4 hours ago, 58er said:

This is about as speculative as a salary cap report as I have ever read. 
Done by an amateur with no credible knowledge of the figures of our list.

Just pure speculation!! Based upon a rumour it seems. 

If we were so close to the cap how come we just added $160,000 for Kye Declase and Daniel Turner plus the SSP of Daw and Deakyn Smith ? 
 

I can list the following who  will probably not be on our list next season 

Nev Jonesy Majak Daw AVB Marty Hore Maybe  Joel Smith maybe  Jake Melksham Bradtke Neitschke. Possibly Oscar Baker. Plenty of wriggle room and to rookie or list Turner and Declase and Deakin Smith.plus trade and draft our needs. Up to 11 players may be not at the Dees in 2022.

 

Wow, ok, thanks for that. 

Didn't know you came to Demonland for professional opinions on our list management and salary cap position - you might be disappointed…

Of course it is speculation, just like you have speculated that the many cheap players you have as delistees will open up enough salary to pay anyone of note. Hint - it won’t.

 

And I am an IT Professional, so… 

[Adam The God 30,602]

10 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

No doubt our cap is tight, that's why TMac and ANB were on the table last year.  IMO no-one big comes in without someone big going out ...

Unless there's some contractual renegotiations and a few take less in order to win a flag (or another!).

[Demons1858 1,789]

8 hours ago, Marcus94 said:

Should we look at Quinton Narkle? He would probably come on the cheap and I reckon he could play Melks role and also go in the midfield.

Anyone can play Melks role at the moment

[Skuit 10,031]

MFC salary cap tightness is a fantasy. No one on here (presumably) has any idea how we've managed our cap in recent years, and the fact that we've got ahead of the game this year and extended a number of our key components to 2025-2029 suggests we're making space rather than using it all up. I'm supremely confident that if a marquee player came into the frame such as Merrett we could accommodate them, but that we will also continue to manage the cap wisely. I believe that we have room if something falls in our laps in the short term, but will otherwise plug smaller holes with cheaper acquisitions until that presents. Go Dees.  

[rpfc 28,895]

40 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Anyone can play Melks role at the moment

I wouldn’t want to play a Jordon or a Sparrow for 50 mins and used in a way to facilitate rests, chop outs forward, and fill temporary holes like I saw last week. 

I have coached teams where I made the vice captain play this role - if no one is to be this connective tissue player then your best players play less by definition. It’s ok to not play it against the lower teams but I would find it hard to give it to kid to perform as it has no continuity, no defined role, and it really is just a ‘get on, and contribute, and then get this person in the middle then get off to get this person on’ type of instruction.

Again, this is how I see it. In my unprofessional opinion…

[Dirts 429]

8 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Older players at clubs outside the premiership window should be targets. Players like Sidebottom, Breust and Seedsman would give us some outside class and complement our strengths.

We are now a destination club!

[Deefiant 441]

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

MFC salary cap tightness is a fantasy. No one on here (presumably) has any idea how we've managed our cap in recent years, and the fact that we've got ahead of the game this year and extended a number of our key components to 2025-2029 suggests we're making space rather than using it all up. I'm supremely confident that if a marquee player came into the frame such as Merrett we could accommodate them, but that we will also continue to manage the cap wisely. I believe that we have room if something falls in our laps in the short term, but will otherwise plug smaller holes with cheaper acquisitions until that presents. Go Dees.  

Not sure how you can say no one here has any idea and that our tightness is a fantasy. I read the extending of contracts differently to you. Collingwood recently had cap troubles because they were extending contracts (Treloar) and signing players to long contracts (Grundy). We all know how that ended up. Not saying this is what is happening here but I think posters have a right to be weary. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

we can't rest on our laurels. We need to keep bringing in guys that will help build our list. Let's not be naive by saying that we have no holes. We do. 

[Skuit 10,031]

28 minutes ago, Deefiant said:

Not sure how you can say no one here has any idea and that our tightness is a fantasy. I read the extending of contracts differently to you. Collingwood recently had cap troubles because they were extending contracts (Treloar) and signing players to long contracts (Grundy). We all know how that ended up. Not saying this is what is happening here but I think posters have a right to be weary. 

I say it based on the presumption that anyone clued into our cap isn't posting on Demonland, especially about this specific matter, and I would be highly disturbed if they were. Ergo, no one on here has any idea as to the current management of our salary cap. Be weary all you want, but don't buy into uninformed speculation. 

[dee-tox 4,835]

6 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

we can't rest on our laurels. We need to keep bringing in guys that will help build our list. Let's not be naive by saying that we have no holes. We do. 

Compared to other clubs we have been well served by injuries this year. Last year we were exposed badly when our bottom six were unable to at least play a role.

With Bowie and Laurie still a while away, I'd be  tempted to add one or two classy flankers if they are available... Maybe we can poach someone like Conor Stone from GWS or Sam Flanders from Gold Coast?