Caroline Wilson on MFC rumblings

[Mach5 4,767]

Bartlett is a lot like Don McLardy - seemingly the best option available to us at the time.

I’m sure he’s attempted to provide us with solid governance, done the best he’s capable of, and tried to make the best decisions for the club in his judgment.

But he’s far from the perfect president.

Let’s hope there’s better out there. I imagine Smith is a solid option, but surely he’s not the only one. Would love an Eddie, but not sure there’s too many out there.

[DeeSpencer 25,378]

Peter Jackson was great because he was an outsider to the MFC, but an insider to the AFL and completely aware of the way football clubs operate. You think we are restless? Go check out Essendon.

Sadly he didn't end on great terms with Bartlett it appears but did seem to understand the brand and direction for the MFC.

He knew how to tie us in with the MCC and to promote the history of the club whilst turning a new leaf. We didn't try to be a smaller cheaper version of a big club.

Bartlett's come to the club via the coterie, but then is really new to the club and the industry. It's a difficult position. Hiring Pert seemed to be a nod to Bartlett's relationship with Eddie, which could be a smart alliance but could be troubling. Attempting to make us in to Collingwood-lite is not something anyone wants.

Anyway, it's a lot of conjecture. If the books are balanced and rash decisions are avoided how much does it really matter?

 

[DeeSpencer 25,378]

As for the football department staff:

Goodwin - give him 2021, too expensive to pay out and I'm not entirely convinced he doesn't deserve a fair chance in a  proper season.

Mahoney - Outside a contract reason or a standout candidate may as well link him to the coach and do the same.

Assistant coaches - Further turnover seems a reality. Widely available candidates and Richo's had a year to work with Goody and provide an opinion on what is and isn't working. 
 

[whatwhat say what 22,571]

23 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

As for the football department staff:

Goodwin - give him 2021, too expensive to pay out and I'm not entirely convinced he doesn't deserve a fair chance in a  proper season.

Mahoney - Outside a contract reason or a standout candidate may as well link him to the coach and do the same.

Assistant coaches - Further turnover seems a reality. Widely available candidates and Richo's had a year to work with Goody and provide an opinion on what is and isn't working. 
 

disagree

he conducted the internal review and relative status quo remained from 2019 to 2020, with the main change being richardson replaced mccartney, and got a five year deal too

he can't possibly stay on given that, as you say, goodwin is likely going nowhere until at least part way through next season (results dependent)

he can't possibly be left in place to evaluate the football department going forward

[deespicable me 1,481]

All this scuttlebutt is why it's so important to win against Essendon and finish the season with two solid wins.

Wilson always has stories on a number of clubs, she can wheel out to keep herself well within the AFL system. Melbourne has always provided stories. We don't really do losing well (not many do) and we are like St Kilda the most losingest club. That's a lot of baggage. It's sad because it means until we win another premiership we are never far from imploding. 

I, like a lot of Melbourne people think there is a lot of promise out on the field and I'm sure just  like us all, didn't like the losses to Freo and the Swans and like many on this forum, voiced their opinion. Saw the need to change. Including some of our supporters who are well off and have the ability to make a contribution to the club on a number of levels.

And just like the majority, they are going to calm down and trust that the men in charge, continue to develop this upward trend we are hopefully on. Most of all, we recognize that upheavals and acrimonious splits aren't good for anyone and generally end in rebuilds and further years in the "wilderness". 

This is such an important game for quite a few people, I hope they realize it and make sure we win.

[DeeSpencer 25,378]

20 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

disagree

he conducted the internal review and relative status quo remained from 2019 to 2020, with the main change being richardson replaced mccartney, and got a five year deal too

he can't possibly stay on given that, as you say, goodwin is likely going nowhere until at least part way through next season (results dependent)

he can't possibly be left in place to evaluate the football department going forward

Game plan - ups and downs but overall improved

List - improved

Covid breaches, sooking about hubs etc all seem to be doing better than a lot of clubs.

Ladder position - 17th to 9th. 

It’s too late now to make a change that impacts the trade and draft period for this year. I can’t imagine the assistant coach situation being positively influenced by changing head of footy now either.

If things go poorly next year then the Board and CEO will have to organise a more thorough review no matter who is in charge 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Game plan - ups and downs but overall improved

Been widely panned this year, not totally sure I agree with this mate. How much more pressure do you think can possibly come onto a coach? Reckon game plan is a fair part of that.

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

List - improved 

Rated no 1 in 2019 (Champion Data)

Rated no 9 in 2020

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Covid breaches, sooking about hubs etc all seem to be doing better than a lot of clubs.

Don't remember Pickett and Spargo? Or Fritsch being "late to training"? Also, apparently the officials in Cairns had a bit to say about how much the Dees sooked while up there.

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Ladder position - 17th to 9th.

Do you legitimately believe that's due solely to the performance of Goodwin and Mahoney? Injuries weren't a factor?

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

It’s too late now to make a change that impacts the trade and draft period for this year. I can’t imagine the assistant coach situation being positively influenced by changing head of footy now either.

Why not? Assistant coaches at other clubs would have looked on in horror at Mahoney's review and changes mid-season. If he's gone and we get a highly rated quality person in of course that impacts the situation positively.

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

If things go poorly next year then the Board and CEO will have to organise a more thorough review no matter who is in charge 

There's always next year hey.... The eternal cry of us long suffering Dees supporters.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Lord Nev

[DubDee 25,438]

11 pages devoted to rumours from Caro. no idea why you guys overreact to her BS.  as soon as the demons falter she has her rubbish to wheel out on us.  Stability is the key - hence the succession.  look at Tigers/WC/Pies.  often went through years of missing finals with good lists but stayed stable and built good culture and unity.

stay the course and dont be distracted by journos with an axe to grind

[Dr. Gonzo 24,124]

3 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Bartlett is a lot like Don McLardy - seemingly the best option available to us at the time.

I’m sure he’s attempted to provide us with solid governance, done the best he’s capable of, and tried to make the best decisions for the club in his judgment.

But he’s far from the perfect president.

Let’s hope there’s better out there. I imagine Smith is a solid option, but surely he’s not the only one. Would love an Eddie, but not sure there’s too many out there.

To be honest Smith could be a solid option. A Melbourne man and strong MCC ties. But there would have to be a very real case for change not just change for changes sake. On field performance is not a reason to topple a president/board unless they have made some terrible decisions that have led to that. Off field our performance is good and if they can get a home base in the MCG precinct they will have been the best performed board since our halcyon days.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

To be honest Smith could be a solid option. A Melbourne man and strong MCC ties. But there would have to be a very real case for change not just change for changes sake. On field performance is not a reason to topple a president/board unless they have made some terrible decisions that have led to that. Off field our performance is good and if they can get a home base in the MCG precinct they will have been the best performed board since our halcyon days.

I think an MCG sized oval, home base, in MCG precinct is highly unlikely.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,124]

34 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Also, apparently the officials in Cairns had a bit to say about how much the Dees sooked while up there.

what are you referring to here?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,124]

1 minute ago, Half forward flank said:

I think an MCG sized oval, home base, in MCG precinct is highly unlikely.

Pert seems confident, lets wait and see.

[Dr.D 1,771]

I like Mahoney. At least he gets stuff done during trade period. He is always proactive. Sure he had made some mistakes but he has also made some good deals. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

what are you referring to here?

Can't remember exactly which paper, potentially Cairns Post? But there was a 'Boundary Rider' article talking about how the Dees were being a bit precious and how the officials up there talked about how other teams didn't give them any problems.

[Pennant St Dee 13,036]

48 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Been widely panned this year, not totally sure I agree with this mate. How much more pressure do you think can possibly come onto a coach? Reckon game plan is a fair part of that.

Rated no 1 in 2019 (Champion Data)

Rated no 9 in 2020

Don't remember Pickett and Spargo? Or Fritsch being "late to training"? Also, apparently the officials in Cairns had a bit to say about how much the Dees sooked while up there.

Do you legitimately believe that's due solely to the performance of Goodwin and Mahoney? Injuries weren't a factor?

Why not? Assistant coaches at other clubs would have looked on in horror at Mahoney's review and changes mid-season. If he's gone and we get a highly rated quality person in of course that impacts the situation positively.

There's always next year hey.... The eternal cry of us long suffering Dees supporters.

So let's get this correct, Champion Data beses list ratings on the previous season.

So the drop down in your view is because the list hasn't improved, because we've gone from rated 1st(based on 2018 stats) to 9th (based on 2019 stats) 

However the improved ladder position in 2020 is nothing to do with Goodwin but all to do with less injury

[Ted Lasso 19,191]

It's obviously extremely unhealthy to have the level of disagreement in terms of direction that the club evidently has right now. 

I think if Goodwin weren't signed up long term there would be a pretty clear consensus that his position should be seriously looked at for 2021, but the reality is he's probably safe regardless. So i definitely understand the frustration from long suffering supporters who have contributed time, emotion and money to the club, have seen an exciting young list in 2018 make a pre-lim and appear to have some success coming in the next few years, fall to 17th, and then most likely miss the finals again the following year. 

I personally have been a financial contributer to the club for a while now, and i'm frustrated by the situation we find ourselves in re- Goodwins contract but that's also said with the benefit of hindsight, at the time in 2018 i was equally as excited as most people and didn't mind him being renewed, although 4 years did feel excessive. 

My biggest concern with Goodwin is we're having the same issues since 2017. 

• Inconsistency week to week 
• poor conversion inside 50
• too easy to transition the ball against 
• an appearance of lacking chemistry and system as a team
• too many changes at selection week to week, consistent poor selections 

in terms of Glen Bartlett i think he's tried to provide the club with some calm, and stability, but the club is still lacking in unity overall and a little bit traumatized by how things have gone. i don't think he's done a bad job, but he also hasn't been exceptional. i can understand why people would consider challenging although i think we're pretty close, and a change of coach could really get us back on track accross the board. some on field success is great for bringing people together. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

11 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

So let's get this correct, Champion Data beses list ratings on the previous season.

So the drop down in your view is because the list hasn't improved, because we've gone from rated 1st(based on 2018 stats) to 9th (based on 2019 stats) 

However the improved ladder position in 2020 is nothing to do with Goodwin but all to do with less injury

Based on the player ratings of the previous season. We didn't have the same players.

Previous two seasons, Bulldgogs finished 13th and then 7th. This year they had the 2nd ranked list.

Yes, I think our improvement this year has come from less injury for the main part. Would Goodwin's job be in danger if he was the sole reason for our improvement this year? Did we seek out Richardson because Goodwin was doing such a great job?

And by your own reasoning then, the results in 2019 were Goodwin's fault and injury had no impact.

I never said the drop down was due to our list not improving. I merely pointed to an independent assessment that said our list hadn't improved.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Lord Nev

[Redlagged 806]

25 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

I like Mahoney. At least he gets stuff done during trade period. He is always proactive. Sure he had made some mistakes but he has also made some good deals. 

Agree with you on this one. Made many good deals.

[Clintosaurus 7,808]

48 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Can't remember exactly which paper, potentially Cairns Post? But there was a 'Boundary Rider' article talking about how the Dees were being a bit precious and how the officials up there talked about how other teams didn't give them any problems.

The whinging claim was based purely on Goody's comment that he would have liked to be able to travel up the day before the game, and being forced to train in between games at another oval, not Cazaly's. The clown who wrote it suggested the club could phone Flash and ask him what the conditions were like.

What a moron.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Clintosaurus said:

The whinging claim was based purely on Goody's comment that he would have liked to be able to travel up the day before the game, and being forced to train in between games at another oval, not Cazaly's. The clown who wrote it suggested the club could phone Flash and ask him what the conditions were like.

What a moron.

Haha sounds like some good QLD journalism! I swear there was something in it about officials comparing us to other clubs tho?

[Clintosaurus 7,808]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Haha sounds like some good QLD journalism! I swear there was something in it about officials comparing us to other clubs tho?

There was, but they are probably his mates. Sydney and Freo got to train at Cazaly's and no travel on the day of the game. Of course they would be happy about the arrangements.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

There was, but they are probably his mates. Sydney and Freo got to train at Cazaly's and no travel on the day of the game. Of course they would be happy about the arrangements.

Found it...

What a disaster of a trip the Melbourne Demons had to FNQ.

They received two losses against teams lower than them on the ladder that seriously hurt their finals hopes across just five days.

They bounced back well on Saturday night against GWS, but they certainly shot themselves in the foot while in Cairns.

The Demons were quick to winge about conditions and facilities, as well.

“We would’ve loved to have been up here before the day of the game to get a feel for the conditions,” Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin said.

“It is different. It’s windy every day – so we need to plan for that and be ready for that.”

Isn’t that the way the AFL has worked much of this season, away teams travelling the day of the game?

Just a little bit precious from the Demons.

They have former players and staff of their club living and working in Cairns, surely they could have made a few phone calls in the days leading in to ask about what conditions they are about to face?

They also had issues with training at Watsons Oval instead of Cazalys.

In contrast, local officials cannot speak more highly of their interactions with Sydney and Fremantle during their FNQ hub.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,669]

49 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

It's obviously extremely unhealthy to have the level of disagreement in terms of direction that the club evidently has right now. 

...

in terms of Glen Bartlett i think he's tried to provide the club with some calm, and stability, but the club is still lacking in unity overall and a little bit traumatized by how things have gone. i don't think he's done a bad job, but he also hasn't been exceptional. i can understand why people would consider challenging although i think we're pretty close, and a change of coach could really get us back on track accross the board. some on field success is great for bringing people together. 

I'm unclear on the basis for these two bolded statements. If they're from Caroline Wilson's article, I'm not convinced that her opinion should automatically be accepted as fact.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Pert seems confident, lets wait and see.

I picked up on him or maybe barlett alluding to the fact it would not be MCG size. Yes wait and see, but for how long?

[Pennant St Dee 13,036]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Based on the player ratings of the previous season. We didn't have the same players.

Previous two seasons, Bulldgogs finished 13th and then 7th. This year they had the 2nd ranked list.

Yes, I think our improvement this year has come from less injury for the main part. Would Goodwin's job be in danger if he was the sole reason for our improvement this year? Did we seek out Richardson because Goodwin was doing such a great job?

And by your own reasoning then, the results in 2019 were Goodwin's fault and injury had no impact.

I never said the drop down was due to our list not improving. I merely pointed to an independent assessment that said our list hadn't improved.

You didn't and couldn't have, because they haven't and won't release their 2020 assessments until the season is over.

You again as always were being selective. Only problem was you didn't get your years correct