Caroline Wilson on MFC rumblings

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

It’s much easier to point to the countless number of clubs and administrations who had plenty of passionate club people involved and were not successful.

You feel that the club needs one Melbourne person involved. Fair enough. But I would like to know why exactly. What quality does a Melbourne person bring to the table that a non-Melbourne person doesn’t have and how does this quality lead to better decisions?

Brendan Gale and Peggy O’Neal are successful because they are competent and know what they are doing not because they are Richmond people. Do you think if they were at other clubs they won’t be successful and if so, why?

The fact is the Tigers have three passionate Tiger people in the key roles.

Gale, Peggy and Emmet Dunne. If you think those three would have brought the same time commitment and passion to a Club they never supported thats up to you.

[george_on_the_outer 7,061]

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

name a Premiership side that has not has one of their own inone of the four key post.

Brisbane

[Half forward flank 1,022]

4 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Brisbane

I expected that, and you fell in.

[Roger Mellie 3,601]

12 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Those four guys are like haviing local people running a foreign owned company.

Guns for sale 

Bartlett Played for WC

Pert    Played for Fitzroy

Mahoney  Played for Port

Goodwin  Played for Adelaide.

 

None of the equivalents at Brisbane, Sydney, West Coast and Port have played for their respective clubs. Most of them are doing orright! There are probably more clubs but I cant be bothered looking them up.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

4 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

None of the equivalents at Brisbane, Sydney, West Coast and Port have played for their respective clubs. Most of them are doing orright! There are probably more clubs but I cant be bothered looking them up.

Not talking about playing for the Club you hold an important position at. Talking about supporting that Club.

[Roger Mellie 3,601]

No, you're changing your argument.

 

[Binmans PA 26,505]

Good on you HFF. You'd be an Olympic level back pedaller.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

The fact is the Tigers have three passionate Tiger people in the key roles.

Gale, Peggy and Emmet Dunne. If you think those three would have brought the same time commitment and passion to a Club they never supported thats up to you.

Great.  That's one example.

I think it's fair to say that the overarching attitude is that we, as supporters, want people in key posts who will run this club professionally and set a high standard of expectations across the board.  I don't care if that ends up being a Melbourne person or a non-Melbourne person.  Peter Jackson wasn't a Melbourne person and he's been the best thing to happen to this club in the last 20 years.

What we want are people who are going to buy in to the club, as Jackson did, and bring their smarts, professionalism etc to the job and the task at hand.  When we get those decisions right then everything else will fall into place.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Good on you HFF. You'd be an Olympic level back pedaller.

Hardly to blame for the rear guard on here not understanding I am talking about people who not only played for the Dees but never supported them. I am talking about haveing no passinate Melb people on board. Or are you saying women are not allowed to have a role in Club. By inference you are if they must have played. ×

“I don’t necessarily blame Simon Goodwin, it’s a collective. If Josh Mahoney has got this wrong, why doesn’t the feedback go up the chain a little bit? Is it Josh Mahoney (General Manager of Football), is it Gary Pert (CEO), how are they going with their roles?

“I think this is a full club problem, not just the senior coach.”

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Great.  That's one example.

I think it's fair to say that the overarching attitude is that we, as supporters, want people in key posts who will run this club professionally and set a high standard of expectations across the board.  I don't care if that ends up being a Melbourne person or a non-Melbourne person.  Peter Jackson wasn't a Melbourne person and he's been the best thing to happen to this club in the last 20 years.

What we want are people who are going to buy in to the club, as Jackson did, and bring their smarts, professionalism etc to the job and the task at hand.  When we get those decisions right then everything else will fall into place.

Of course you get the best people in the key roles with the exception being the Pres must have impecable credentils. were

Goodwin

Mahoney

Pert     all the best available?

[Lucifers Hero 37,323]

fwiw, a few weeks ago Ross Lyon was asked on FC about coaching GWS (when they were not performing).  He said he wasn't interested in coaching 'at the minute'.

As Wilson sits on that panel with him there is a fair chance she wasn't guessing about mfc interest in him.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

fwiw, a few weeks ago Ross Lyon was asked on FC about coaching GWS (when they were not performing).  He said he wasn't interested in coaching 'at the minute'.

As Wilson sits on that panel with him there is a fair chance she wasn't guessing about mfc interest in him.

Logical deduction! I think we'd be derelict to at least ask the question with both Lyon/Clarkson at a minimum.  We got no idea how this will all turn out but having some discrepancy plans put in to play would make a lot of sense.  

[The heart beats true 16,485]

14 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Those four guys are like haviing local people running a foreign owned company.

Guns for sale 

Bartlett Played for WC

Pert    Played for Fitzroy

Mahoney  Played for Port

Goodwin  Played for Adelaide.

 

Hardwick - Essendon and Port
Simpson - North
Beveridge - Melbourne and Saints
Clarkson - Melbourne and North
Longmire - North

Not one of them the local boy made good.

[Radar Detector 1,339]

21 hours ago, Redleg said:

Pretty tough to sack a Coach with 2 years left on a contract, after the most crazy season in AFL/VFL history and where his club was given the worst fixture in the Competition.

Maybe so, but if he is not the right person to lead the club then keeping him on effectively wastes another season in 2021 while so many of our best players are in or entering the prime of their careers.

We are underperforming, we have the worst skills in the competition, our selection has been baffling more often than not and we still give up momentum for long periods within games. I for one don’t want to have to sit through the same issues again next year.

[Binmans PA 26,505]

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Hardly to blame for the rear guard on here not understanding I am talking about people who not only played for the Dees but never supported them. I am talking about haveing no passinate Melb people on board. Or are you saying women are not allowed to have a role in Club. By inference you are if they must have played. ×

“I don’t necessarily blame Simon Goodwin, it’s a collective. If Josh Mahoney has got this wrong, why doesn’t the feedback go up the chain a little bit? Is it Josh Mahoney (General Manager of Football), is it Gary Pert (CEO), how are they going with their roles?

“I think this is a full club problem, not just the senior coach.”

 

What are you even talking about? Who is that post aimed at?

53 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Hardwick - Essendon and Port
Simpson - North
Beveridge - Melbourne and Saints
Clarkson - Melbourne and North
Longmire - North

Not one of them the local boy made good.

Luke played at the Bulldogs after Melbourne... the rest are right though.

[pitmaster 3,110]

6 hours ago, Demon17 said:

She needs copy to get her retainer paid weekly so any story will do. Remember she's just 60 and still a long way from pension age so must keep working.

I don't want to bag Caro for the sake of it. There is usually an element of truth in her stuff sometimes bolstered by much speculation. This seems to fit that type. Interesting to learn that Bartlett has not duchessed the MCC crew. Maybe true, maybe not, but that's the perception of those that talk to Caro. Certainly Caro has always had plenty of MCC contacts. Some of them are always going to be p##$ed off. There were when Gutnick ran the show.

It's still interesting that Stephen Smith was approached. He'd be a terrific chairman I think but if his priority is his law practice it's merely a footnote that he was approached. Tough building a whole column around that. 

Where this article should be specific it's loose and general. Who are the former directors whose trust has not been won back? And where the piece runs off the rails entirely for me is the suggestion Lyon "remains an active target". Active target means we are talking to him. Or does it? Who knows wtf it means. Aren't we chasing Clarkson in the same paragraph? So we are pursuing two prospective coaches at the same time we have a coach with two years on his contract in the midst of a revenue destroying pandemic. 

OK, she has Josh in the gun and the assistant coaches. Well, yeah, but so does two thirds of this website.

It does have the feel of, the Dees are in trouble, they are playing a crunch game Saturday night, I have to have something for Saturday's paper.

As for Lyon as a possible coach? No thanks. Clarko, or his chief assistant Oooze, yes please.

[Skuit 9,382]

Talk about burying the lede. Ross Lyon remains an active target? The reason this doesn't appear until the tenth paragraph rather than in the headline is because this is a typical Caro article full of ambiguity, rhetoric and innuendo and she likely has nothing decent to back it up. "The prevailing view is that next year Goodwin must reach certain performance targets to move into his final season". Whose view? A contract isn't a matter of opinion. Goodwin either does or he doesn't need to meet targets.   

[Binmans PA 26,505]

9 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Talk about burying the lede. Ross Lyon remains an active target? The reason this doesn't appear until the tenth paragraph rather than in the headline is because this is a typical Caro article full of ambiguity, rhetoric and innuendo and she likely has nothing decent to back it up. "The prevailing view is that next year Goodwin must reach certain performance targets to move into his final season". Whose view? A contract isn't a matter of opinion. Goodwin either does or he doesn't need to meet targets.   

Yep, you'd definitely lead with your strongest point if Lyon was an active target or at least if you knew he was. She's guessing.

Edited September 12, 2020 by A F

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

Hardwick - Essendon and Port
Simpson - North
Beveridge - Melbourne and Saints
Clarkson - Melbourne and North
Longmire - North

Not one of them the local boy made good.

D minus fro comprehension Heart. 

[Older demon 2,186]

6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I thought that was interesting and while it pleased me that there is an 'out' in 2021 it made me wonder what that KPI might be.

As the contract was made just after the 2018 prelim the KPI for 2021 (3 years later) can't simply be "making finals".  That would imply the club expected the 2018 performance to drop then hover around the middle of the ladder in 2019 and 2020 which would be a surprise.  If it was such a mediocre expectation my question of the club would be why extend for 3 years or why not wait to see how 2019 panned out.  Common sense says they wouldn't.  The 3 year extension means they had higher expectations in 2019/20 which one hopes was built into the contract.

On that logic one would expect a 2021 KPI to be winning x finals or reaching the prelim.  ie at least what we did in 2018.  No one would expect "linear" improvement from 2018 but the same result 3 years later is reasonable.

So a KPI for 2021 can't simply be "making finals".  Just scraping into finals isn't a sufficiently high KPI to justify a 3 year extension. 

And tbh if we just scrape into finals or exit quickly that won't be enough to convince me Goodwin should be there in 2022.  So hope the 2021 KPI is a high enough bar that non-achievement allows us to exit the contract.

That is a well thought out discussion Lucy (stole that from the T.V. show). If I can take it a bit further and look at who we have drafted in the last 2 years I suspect the club did see a potential drop and hover, as that is exactly what happened. For 2019 they bought in May (losing Hogan and giving up pick 6 that became Ben King) and drafted Sparrow, Jordan, Nietschke, Hore, Bedford & Chandler. Dunkley was a mid year addition. That is a lot of mids. Then this year Jackson, Picket & Rivers. That makes 11 new additions to a squad that made a prelim 2 seasons ago to match the 11 delistings from 2018. Other teams haven't gone for youth but topped up with seasoned players. To me that suggests the footy dept thought the 2018 squad lacked a bit. Remember mid season we were not that good.

Last year with all the surgeries could not be foreseen but all bar Jordan & Nietschke have had a senior game. Are we doing a rebuild on the side? The club couldn't have expected Jones, Jetta and T Mac to fall away so quickly given their contract status and at times this year we are aspiring to the finals with 3-4 first year players in the team. None of the current top 4 are doing that and it is a struggle and honour to even get a game for a first year player at some of those clubs.

The club all along said 2018 was a bonus but the real expectation was to make finals in 2020 and in the years after. Ninth this year may be barely a pass with definite expectation for making finals and progressing further would be how I see it and that KPI seems a long way off

[Bay Riffin 1,426]

22 hours ago, rjay said:

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

Many may not agree but the Roos appointment may not have been such a great move.

We were so keen to get him that he came totally on his terms, the big one being his expiry date.

Because of this I suspect some decisions were rushed.

Dew was the man he wanted but it turned out we couldn't get him.

Time was running short and we went for Goodwin, someone that Roos didn't know.

Loved Jackson but I think he had tunnel vision in the pursuit of Roos and it maybe costing us now.

Of course this has then been compounded by Bartletts decision to extend the Goodwin contract.

Yes and Dew did very little and now the AFL have thrown him unprecedented last chance draft gifts to help get them up the ladder. He’s proven nothing with ibis coaching. 

[Bay Riffin 1,426]

7 minutes ago, Older demon said:

That is a well thought out discussion Lucy (stole that from the T.V. show). If I can take it a bit further and look at who we have drafted in the last 2 years I suspect the club did see a potential drop and hover, as that is exactly what happened. For 2019 they bought in May (losing Hogan and giving up pick 6 that became Ben King) and drafted Sparrow, Jordan, Nietschke, Hore, Bedford & Chandler. Dunkley was a mid year addition. That is a lot of mids. Then this year Jackson, Picket & Rivers. That makes 11 new additions to a squad that made a prelim 2 seasons ago to match the 11 delistings from 2018. Other teams haven't gone for youth but topped up with seasoned players. To me that suggests the footy dept thought the 2018 squad lacked a bit. Remember mid season we were not that good.

Last year with all the surgeries could not be foreseen but all bar Jordan & Nietschke have had a senior game. Are we doing a rebuild on the side? The club couldn't have expected Jones, Jetta and T Mac to fall away so quickly given their contract status and at times this year we are aspiring to the finals with 3-4 first year players in the team. None of the current top 4 are doing that and it is a struggle and honour to even get a game for a first year player at some of those clubs.

The club all along said 2018 was a bonus but the real expectation was to make finals in 2020 and in the years after. Ninth this year may be barely a pass with definite expectation for making finals and progressing further would be how I see it and that KPI seems a long way off

Who had the goal of making finals in 2020 ? In 2017 we missed finals by the smallest margin in history. 

[Clintosaurus 6,677]

Do we really want to be like Essendon? Their deluded fans have an obsession with 'Essendon people' being in positions of authority. Hird really worked out well didn't it?

[layzie 29,771]

Don't know where this is going. Do we need more loyal Melbourne people or less but with half a clue of what they're doing?

Edited September 12, 2020 by layzie

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,987]

17 hours ago, A F said:

It really does not matter where they played footy. Neil Balme played at Richmond. Would you like him as GM or would you be put off because he played at Richmond? We need to get over this attitude IMV.

It matters if the outsiders don’t really believe in our club and its supporters. It’s all about buying in and I’d argue none of the above mentioned have ever endeared themselves to the members of this club. It’s plastic and manufactured.