Are We The Mentally Weakest Side Ever?

[layzie 29,770]

8 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Completely unfashionable but ability to kick a flat punt from around 20 out with a strong wind would not hurt.

Missed that era but seen plenty of footage, I'd love to see this kick make a comeback. Straight line run towards goal and kick. No frills, no questions asked. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,936]

Just now, drdrake said:

No, nothing to do with preparation, it is our players skills are flakey and even with out pressure we can't execute the fundamentals of the game.  

What has happened to Oliver's game, a few weeks back unstoppable breaking tackles running with the ball and kicking.  He is back to fumbles, turnover kicks and 1m handballs

Player skills are all about preparation 

Physically and Mentally 

[drdrake 3,052]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Player skills are all about preparation 

Physically and Mentally 

You have to be able to execute the skill, you can practice but by the time you start playing afl your motor skills are already systematic.  We have drafted to many players that just can't kick consistently, contested players who can win the footy but none that can kick.

If this was a once off you would put it down to lack of preparation, but every week we just turn the footy over, that says we dont have players that can execute the skill

[Sir Why You Little 34,936]

1 minute ago, drdrake said:

You have to be able to execute the skill, you can practice but by the time you start playing afl your motor skills are already systematic.  We have drafted to many players that just can't kick consistently, contested players who can win the footy but none that can kick.

If this was a once off you would put it down to lack of preparation, but every week we just turn the footy over, that says we dont have players that can execute the skill

I agree, but i still say we have players who pick and choose when to switch on. 
And that should be the First thing the Football Department stops. 
Good sides go hard, we can, but we think about it

All above the shoulders on Game Day

[loges 6,245]

Yes we are

[drdrake 3,052]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I agree, but i still say we have players who pick and choose when to switch on. 
And that should be the First thing the Football Department stops. 
Good sides go hard, we can, but we think about it

All above the shoulders on Game Day

Totally agree, mindset and effort should be a given as soon as you cross that line you can control that.

Our club over an extended period of time just can't do the fundamentals right.

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

Carltank might give us a run for our money 

[Sir Why You Little 34,936]

16 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Totally agree, mindset and effort should be a given as soon as you cross that line you can control that.

Our club over an extended period of time just can't do the fundamentals right.

And that is exactly why i mention our history

Different Players, Different Coaches, Different CEO’s, Different Boards 

But the same Flaky results for 6 decades 

i don’t blame Simon, like i didn’t blame Bails, they were simply not experienced enough to show the whole club what to do, to break the mould. Roosy almost did it, but left early. 
It is exactly why we should have employed Sheedy back in 2008, yes i know he was getting older, but he still knew what it takes to win at all costs

Goodwin can only guess and hope, and with another Club he may do it

But the MFC needs a Gun Coach to get us The Elusive 13th. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Sir Why You Little

[Gee N 25]

I have been lucky enough to see our last six grand final wins and when you look back then Norm Smith was a great at discipline and those players who didn’t do it his way didn’t play no matter who they were. He thought outside the square, with a win at all cost mentality, and when in front grind the opposition into the ground, win at all cost. The Melbourne football club sacked him basically for that attitude.We failed from then till  Northy arrived only for them to sack him too for a similar attitude. We have been weak ever since and employed  soft coaches that don’t rule with an ion fist. Some may remember in the 2000s someone sending chicken hearts to the club. Many will say young players won’t accept that sort of coaching today, well if they aren’t prepared accept  that style then don’t play for us. We have o many players with the talent but get ahead of themselves,  and yet the coaching staff allow it. Players are gifted games on reputation and turn up to play when it suites them ,but fail when the pressure is on, and the coaches allow it . Just look at the really successful sides and how they can play week in and week out, come from behind and win play for the club the jumper and the supporters.

 

 

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

50 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It is exactly why we should have employed Sheedy back in 2008, yes i know he was getting older, but he still knew what it takes to win at all costs

Back then I saw Sheedy at the MCG a couple of times watching Melbourne and he was always happy to talk to the fans. I think it was a mistake not getting someone with his experience, all because he didn't believe in presenting a powerpoint. If the club didn't understand who he was and what he was all about, then they had no right to be running a football club. Huge missed opportunity. AFL is ageist at times.

[WERRIDEE 5,251]

1 hour ago, Dame Gaga said:

Back then I saw Sheedy at the MCG a couple of times watching Melbourne and he was always happy to talk to the fans. I think it was a mistake not getting someone with his experience, all because he didn't believe in presenting a powerpoint. If the club didn't understand who he was and what he was all about, then they had no right to be running a football club. Huge missed opportunity. AFL is ageist at times.

At the time it was the biggest kick in the guts for me. A legend over a no name it was obvious to me but not Garry and his mates. Disgraceful decision.

[dee-tox 4,829]

We're a bit like a flaky Asian cricket team. We have a couple of hard-hitters in the top order but with no application or willingness to dig in for the long haul. Then we have a couple of decent bowlers who can perform in good conditions  but lose interest when a partnership develops!

 

[kev martin 9,323]

I agree with what  @Gee N wrote.

Hard coaches, not friends, discipline and not medals for everyone.  

The mateship/respect that Goody wants isn't working and probably feels fake because it is fabricated.

They won't break through barriers for him. They hit the wall and bounce back.

We need them harder, physically and mentally.  

Too many pats and smiles over small things from the coaches. Let them work some things out themselves.

Push and want more from them. 

Be direct about not good enough and to get on with it. The yell, the look, the ignore, each player needs something different.

Try different ways of reward, punishment and communication, but please, don't let the anxiety fester.

The coaches seem to have created squads in squads. Those in favour and those not, splits everywhere, from salaries, to those getting games, from the experienced, to the young ones.

Lack of cohesion, connection and not working for each other or the coach, leads me to my conclusion. 

Harden up coaches, be an example.

The only coach I have seen get stroppy at training in the 3 years I had been watching was Rawlings and he has gone.

You aren't their friends.

Be professional, get the best out of them by anyway you can.

I think the best mates, developing relationships thing is a fake, airey fairy fantasy, 

The chemistry of us people is an impossible recipe to conjure up. It usually develops naturally.

In sporting groups, cohesion is possibly based on the respect for each other, not mateship.

Though, I agree with them enjoying playing footy, losses don't help.

The coaches should have as many strategies of management as they have different game plans (should be a handful of each).

When it comes to MFC coaching staff, it appears there is one way of each.

C'mon do your job.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by kev martin

[Demon trucker 1,779]

What a stupid thread, we weren't last round against the saints, this can't change from week to week, kick 1 goal 3 behind with the wind, against a side that kicks 5 goals with the wind, there is the game in a nutshell.

[kev martin 9,323]

1 hour ago, don't make me angry said:

What a stupid thread, we weren't last round against the saints, this can't change from week to week, kick 1 goal 3 behind with the wind, against a side that kicks 5 goals with the wind, there is the game in a nutshell.

Why a stupid thread?

You may not agree with the premise but that does not make it stupid.

Means you are biased to others opinions by calling it stupid.

Inconsistency is a mark of not being able to prepare and apply yourself mentally to a task.

[pitmaster 3,108]

10 hours ago, Biffen said:

There are too many grammatical problems with the question for me to give an answer.

And WTF is a skeptical selection?

[Kent 2,629]

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Peter Hudson did that every week of his career 

very effectively. 

no that is Viney

[Wells 11 4,873]

9 hours ago, Gee N said:

I have been lucky enough to see our last six grand final wins and when you look back then Norm Smith was a great at discipline and those players who didn’t do it his way didn’t play no matter who they were.

 

 

Wow and deep Respect Gee N. I bow down to those with this experience. I got the bug as an 11 year old in 71... flags feel like an impossible dream to me. 

[Demon trucker 1,779]

32 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Why a stupid thread?

You may not agree with the premise but that does not make it stupid.

Means you are biased to others opinions by calling it stupid.

Inconsistency is a mark of not being able to prepare and apply yourself mentally to a task.

All most all teams have been inconsistent this season except for Richmond, weak mind all just the nature of footy, more mentally weak then bulldogs who when they have lost have been mostly over 35 points, or west coast hating hub so much that flaming gold coast beat them by 10 goals, how about playing a game after 4 days, after travelling half way around the country, every game has 2 teams 50% chance to win.

[kev martin 9,323]

Our inconsistencies have been there forever.

Up and down, nearly, not quite is what I see.

Flat track bullies, then beat good teams, then back to losing to weaker teams that want it more, though have nothing to gain.

The coaches have always needed to apply different skills to get the best out of the players , (including mental strength). 

I see our coaches as quite one dimensional.

I believe they need a variety of approaches to preparation and game day. A dossier of A, B, C etcetera plans and approaches. This is what I would call the modern coach.

@don't make me angry

Other teams can do what they like, it is not my concern.

Though I enjoy watching the stars from other teams perform. 

 

[BDA 20,636]

Poor habits and poor concentration. Every club has off days kicking but the contenders turn up switched on from the first bounce, lay tackles, compete hard. You can tell with this team early in the game what you’re going to get. The missed tackles and lazy efforts from last night set the tone. No one on the field calls it out. No one (including Max) seems to be able to rouse the team, shift momentum. Subconsciously we accept this standard.

We need leaders in the coaches box and on the field that maintain standards and demand others meet them or else. The best example I can think from another sport is Alex Ferguson and Roy Keane. Keane captained Man United in the EPL for years. All his ex-team mates say he was relentless. He demanded excellence, every minute, every training session, every game. If you fell short he let you know. New recruits got the treatment early if they didn’t track back or mis-placed a pass. He mirrored the personality of his manager Alex Ferguson who was an uncompromising, hard as flint, Scottish SOB. 

Alastair Clarkson has these qualities. Ross Lyons too but he seems to wear the players out with a rigid game plan. There may be others but they are not obvious to me. Player wise, Melbourne obviously don’t have the right characters at the moment. Perhaps Viney with the right coach. Max leads by example but he’s not a mongrel. Steven May possibly, but he’s too prone to lapses and his professionalism is questionable. Some of the younger players may have the right stuff but they need leaders and mentors at the club to show the way.

Until we have the right coach and enough players with the right character we won’t improve. With the right leadership execution, effort, kicking will all follow.

[Sir Why You Little 34,936]

1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

Poor habits and poor concentration. Every club has off days kicking but the contenders turn up switched on from the first bounce, lay tackles, compete hard. You can tell with this team early in the game what you’re going to get. The missed tackles and lazy efforts from last night set the tone. No one on the field calls it out. No one (including Max) seems to be able to rouse the team, shift momentum. Subconsciously we accept this standard.

We need leaders in the coaches box and on the field that maintain standards and demand others meet them or else. The best example I can think from another sport is Alex Ferguson and Roy Keane. Keane captained Man United in the EPL for years. All his ex-team mates say he was relentless. He demanded excellence, every minute, every training session, every game. If you fell short he let you know. New recruits got the treatment early if they didn’t track back or mis-placed a pass. He mirrored the personality of his manager Alex Ferguson who was an uncompromising, hard as flint, Scottish SOB. 

Alastair Clarkson has these qualities. Ross Lyons too but he seems to wear the players out with a rigid game plan. There may be others but they are not obvious to me. Player wise, Melbourne obviously don’t have the right characters at the moment. Perhaps Viney with the right coach. Max leads by example but he’s not a mongrel. Steven May possibly, but he’s too prone to lapses and his professionalism is questionable. Some of the younger players may have the right stuff but they need leaders and mentors at the club to show the way.

Until we have the right coach and enough players with the right character we won’t improve. With the right leadership execution, effort, kicking will all follow.

Spot on mate. 
The MFC has picked and chosen when to perform for decades with no consistency at all

[drdrake 3,052]

I have been on Demon fan forums for nearly 20 years, I'm sure if I went through my posts after losses like last night it will be a pretty consistence theme

1) Club Culture: we accept defeat and over celebrate wins as we don't go into games expecting to win.  It is easy for the club to loss as winning is hard.  This is culture and for some reason no coach or administration over the past 60 years has been able to change this.  We have shown glimpses over that period that we are on the right path to change this but then the losing culture is to strong and creeps back in.  

2) Mindset: ties in with point 1 but work rate is a mindset, you need to be prepared to work hard to win games.  We have to many examples that we just don't want to work hard enough.  A player can control this, it is one of the things you can control in a game how hard you work.  The ball might not bounce your way, you can't control that but working hard gives you a better chance to get involved in the game

3) Skills: there is something seriously wrong with our club.  From an extended period of time we have been the worse skilled side in the competition.  I know someone will bring up the AFL disposal stats that show we aren't but we are the ability to do the fundamentals of the game is an ongoing concern, especially when it matters, example Gawn and Langdon missing 2 goals 15ms out basically directly in front.  

4) Development: Outside Petracca, who from our core group from 2018 has improved, excluding players we have drafted and traded in including Lever, not many in fact most have gone backwards TMac, Brayshaw, Harmes, Viney, Spargo, Melksham, Jetta, Jones, Salem, Gawn, OMac, Hannan.  Then you add in the draft picks, no one from 2018 draft has been able to cement a spot, the 2019 crop look good but will wait and see what improvement they will get over the summer.

2/3/4 the coaches and players can control, point one is the entire club it needs to be ruthless from the top person down.  points 2/3/4 are non negotiable start with that and it goes a long way to changing the culture. 

 

 

 

[Demon Dynasty 15,969]

20 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

And that is exactly why i mention our history

Different Players, Different Coaches, Different CEO’s, Different Boards 

But the same Flaky results for 6 decades 

i don’t blame Simon, like i didn’t blame Bails, they were simply not experienced enough to show the whole club what to do, to break the mould. Roosy almost did it, but left early. 
It is exactly why we should have employed Sheedy back in 2008, yes i know he was getting older, but he still knew what it takes to win at all costs

Goodwin can only guess and hope, and with another Club he may do it

But the MFC needs a Gun Coach to get us The Elusive 13th. 

What a blunder that was.  Effectively the Roos appointment 7 years earlier and probably would have stayed for 5 or more.  And a great replacement following on from Danners who at least had us up and about every other year before losing any of that bit of momentum.  This club has a penchant for picking the worst conceivable options far too often (ie; wet behind the ear newbie coaches), which leads us to, our present horribilis... 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 15,969]

9 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Poor habits and poor concentration. Every club has off days kicking but the contenders turn up switched on from the first bounce, lay tackles, compete hard. You can tell with this team early in the game what you’re going to get. The missed tackles and lazy efforts from last night set the tone. No one on the field calls it out. No one (including Max) seems to be able to rouse the team, shift momentum. Subconsciously we accept this standard.

We need leaders in the coaches box and on the field that maintain standards and demand others meet them or else. The best example I can think from another sport is Alex Ferguson and Roy Keane. Keane captained Man United in the EPL for years. All his ex-team mates say he was relentless. He demanded excellence, every minute, every training session, every game. If you fell short he let you know. New recruits got the treatment early if they didn’t track back or mis-placed a pass. He mirrored the personality of his manager Alex Ferguson who was an uncompromising, hard as flint, Scottish SOB. 

Alastair Clarkson has these qualities. Ross Lyons too but he seems to wear the players out with a rigid game plan. There may be others but they are not obvious to me. Player wise, Melbourne obviously don’t have the right characters at the moment. Perhaps Viney with the right coach. Max leads by example but he’s not a mongrel. Steven May possibly, but he’s too prone to lapses and his professionalism is questionable. Some of the younger players may have the right stuff but they need leaders and mentors at the club to show the way.

Until we have the right coach and enough players with the right character we won’t improve. With the right leadership execution, effort, kicking will all follow.

The rest of your post is a gooden BD but to me that was May of 2019.  He's stood up big time and has the mongrel to lead this group out of the mire IMHO.  He's exactly the captain this club needs right now.  Hopefully 2021