POSTGAME: Rd 14 vs St. Kilda

[leave it to deever 17,511]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Your forward line assessment is pretty good in general Macca other than that last para which is still mostly on the  money imv.

Most if the match (and prior matches, particularly Weid, they play from behind too often when there's a run & carry play coming off HB or the middle under heat.  Main forwards need to recognise this earlier and lead up to the carrier more often.  We are getting lead to those situations far too often by the opp defenders who often outmark us.  And no i'm not referring to their spare.  Separately from that type of outcome which is part of the norm.

On the highlighted para i think Weid & Brown started to do that in about the last 8 to 10 minutes or so.

Your assessment of Maccas post is mostly on the money too. I was wondering whete all or goals would come from not that there were many. Thank goodness for Trac who I wouldnt pick as our leading scorer prior to last night.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

 The day after the win we had to have and all I can say is thank god for Petracca and May.

If we go on to do great things this season what those two blokes did last night will go down in folklore.  Never seen a Demon win where practically 2 players carried the team to a win, and at opposite ends of the ground.

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I'm not advocating that every one of our forwards pushes up so that as a consequence there is no one to kick to. 

Petracca in 2019 played that high half forward position very well but ... the players further afield were ineffectual.  So we wasted him.

If players like Spargo or Hannan were to work their butts off to gather 20+ possessions (like Petracca often did in 2019) then we'd be better off.  But they don't and it's probably because they are incapable of doing so.

Check out the way Richmond go about it ... their forwards often roam far and wide (when they are on song) and they work really hard for each other.  And their defensive pressure is immense.  That's the template AF.

Exactly and by doing so they often clear out space behind them inside 50, 30 plus to 50, for their KFs to lead into.

Our smalls def need to learn this and should be instructed / coached post match to do so using some of Melk's work last night and other club's small forward examples to show them the way.  It's not always about crumbing the spill inside 30 for a quick snap or assist.

Having said that there was one lovely intercept from Kozzy early on last night just outside the arc on the square. 

More of that hard two way work please just outside the arc.  He also needs to work on his timing /positioning aspect.  Sometimes you need to hit the contest with speed other times go slow and wait front n square off the contest a little, not so much under their nasal hair.

If i was part of the FD i'd be employing the services of Cyril &/or Milne to coach Kozzy & Spargs on the finer points of playing a small forward role.  One of the hardest positions on the ground imv and expert coaching would help immensely.  Plenty of upside and key to our 'regular' finals / top 4 fortunes going forward.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Demon17 5,186]

1 hour ago, A F said:

I watched the final two minutes again on the AFL website and I don't know what people are talking about on this. Didn't look 15m at all.

Same also. But in those last 2 minutes what I noticed was the unbelievebale effort of Jack Viney laying 3 tackles (2 on Jack Steele) and giving out a critical handball in traffic.  Not bad for 120 seconds of football.

Well done Jack

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

10 minutes ago, Vagg said:

I realise, in this brave new world, that the meaning of a lot of words has been mongrelised in recent times.  But, still thought this one meant something akin to "come BEFORE".  You know, like precede.  Not quite sure how young Rivers is gonna achieve that little fete, unless his other name is Marty McFly...

Very true, should have written successor instead. Obviously Melbourne winning has impaired my use of Grammar! 

[Adam The God 30,129]

9 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

 The day after the win we had to have and all I can say is thank god for Petracca and May.

If we go on to do great things this season what those two blokes did last night will go down in folklore.  Never seen a Demon win where practically 2 players carried the team to a win, and at opposite ends of the ground.

 

Righto.

Edited August 30, 2020 by A F

[Lucifers Hero 39,600]

3 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Your assessment of Maccas post is mostly on the money too. I was wondering whete all or goals would come from not that there were many. Thank goodness for Trac who I wouldnt pick as our leading scorer prior to last night.

Umm...he was our leading goal scorer in 2019, kicking 22.14. 

And In 2017 he kicked 26.16 

So his performance this year both in front of the goals and as a match winner around the ground are not a surprise at all.

 

[Macca 16,923]

28 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Exactly and by doing so they often clear out space behind them inside 50, 30 plus to 50, for their KFs to lead into.

Our smalls def need to learn this and should be instructed / coached post match to do so using some of Melk's work last night and other club's small forward examples to show them the way.  It's not always about crumbing the spill inside 30 for a quick snap or assist.

Having said that there was one lovely intercept from Kozzy early on last night.  More if that hard two way work please just outside the arc.

Kozzie isn't really the issue either although he is part of the forward line group.  Same goes for LJ.

They are both very young with a lot to learn.  But the others have been around for long enough.  Can they learn?  Maybe.  Could be that they are what they are RN.

The off-season might provide the answers if our recruiting team are 100% switched on. 

We have got to be aiming at having an A grade or B+ forward line.  Right now it's barely a C.  But that can change quickly up to B or even B+ with some astute recruiting. 

A gun key forward along with a proper defensive forward who can kick goals (Viney?) as well as 2 decent high half forwards are needed.  Fritsch & Melksham can provide the latter 2 spots if they both play to their best.

It would be hoped that Kozzie fills the role of the dangerous small forward with LJ as the genuine X factor.

So all hope isn't lost ... we just need to get a lot better up forward.  The team is a work in progress but so is the team within the team (the forward line)

Edited August 30, 2020 by Macca

[Macca 16,923]

18 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

 The day after the win we had to have and all I can say is thank god for Petracca and May.

If we go on to do great things this season what those two blokes did last night will go down in folklore.  Never seen a Demon win where practically 2 players carried the team to a win, and at opposite ends of the ground.

Robbie Flower would carry the team regularly.  Same deal for Hardeman,  Wells & Alves.

Back in the day. 

But we still couldn't beat the good teams even with those 4 performing as well as they did.  And all 4 did so most weeks (perform)

But up to 5 or 6 other teams often had up to 12-15 bona-fide top players back then. 

These days it's very difficult to build a list containing 15 top players.  But that still has to remain the aim even though it's hard to attain.

I reckon we're sitting at about 7 or 8 top players right now.  Need more.

 

[Young Blood 2,586]

A lot of praise for May and Trac and rightly so as our clear best two on the ground.

But I thought there were a few that really contributed to gutting out that win.

Langdon was again terrific. Covers ground with pace and along that far non broadcasting side wing he was busy all night creating opportunities with run and ball use. We've been screaming for this type of player and he's slotted in perfectly. His attack on the ball has been a nice surprise as well as his improved kicking. I thought he was pretty clean all night especially when others weren't.

Clayton really stepped up in the second half and like we saw in the Adelaide game he used short bursts of run when he gained possession in the contest to break open. You can see it throws off the opposition who are so used to him giving the quick first handball option. Loving the added element to his game. I hope and think he's taking advantage of Trac taking the extra attention to advantage and quietly adding strings to his bow.

Viney although not effective with possession was in every contest all night. They gave him no space or time but he still put his body on the line and was able to get repeat stoppages constantly across the ground. He will be very sore today being crunched a lot last night. His diving handball late to Clayton in the dying seconds to give us out last rebound out of defence was outstanding. The improvement in his fitness is obvious and he's been a key catalyst in us grinding out games late with his ability to just keep going and going and going.

Salem is definitely in our top 5 most important players and I thought he was key again last night with his class, composure and ball use.

Didn't get a whole lot of it but thought it was maybe the best or most important performance from Tomlinson. Seemed to have a clear role playing on Membry but taking advantage of Membry dropping back from contests to push up as an option. Maybe a risky move but I liked his attack and confidence with the ball last night. Seems to be getting more comfortable back there playing off his man at times ie. the mark late. Used it well too with some damaging kicks.

PS. much prefer Browns mobility across the ground to robot Tmac. Gave us a different look. Not sure how well he'll fit with Bayley back with both having similar game styles. Both being second/third options who like to lead into space and push up HF. Will be interesting.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Yung Blood

[picket fence 17,056]

15 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Spargo was great defensively all game.

Sheesh I dont care how defensive he is, if you get 4 possesions last week and 8 this week = 12 in two games as a forward mainly then he is not and never will be the answer! Period. Yeah I know he had a career best game a few weeks back but that would be his past present and future career best. He needs to go. Surely Harley Bennell gets a gig at this guys expense next week??

[Star of the 80s 154]

16 hours ago, Gunna’s said:

Have they weighed petracca lately?

Wiki says 96kg

Muscle weights more than fat so Trac must be 120kgs now

[Trisul 664]

43 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Umm...he was our leading goal scorer in 2019, kicking 22.14. 

And In 2017 he kicked 26.16 

So his performance this year both in front of the goals and as a match winner around the ground are not a surprise at all.

 

While thats true, this year Trac was averaging 0.75 goals per game before the match.  It was a masive step up and his highest goals return of his career.  

[Lucifers Hero 39,600]

2 minutes ago, Trisul said:

While thats true, this year Trac was averaging 0.75 goals per game before the match.  It was a masive step up and his highest goals return of his career.  

Yes, but how many clearances has he won and score involvements has he had as a midfielder this year.  How much time has he spent fwd this year?  25% - 30% maybe? 

[Trisul 664]

2 hours ago, A F said:

It was one. The second one being attributed to Jones was absolutely Clarry's fault. A soft effort going back with one hand. He goes back with two hands and he marks it. Jones made the right call there.

It was two.  Jones had plenty of time and space to nail that kick, so much so the Oliver rightly had forward momentum expecting a kick to his advantage.  The horrible kick way over his head and to the side wrong footed him leading to the desperate one handed reach to try and get to it.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, Trisul said:

It was two.  Jones had plenty of time and space to nail that kick, so much so the Oliver rightly had forward momentum expecting a kick to his advantage.  The horrible kick way over his head and to the side wrong footed him leading to the desperate one handed reach to try and get to it.

I think you're letting Oliver off the hook with that second one.  I remember at the time being really disappointed in his effort to take that mark - he was in the right position, but was almost expecting some contact so he didn't go hard enough to take it.  Had he marked it we were away through the middle of the ground.

[jnrmac 20,055]

Credit where it's due. A must win game, 6 changes, player dropped for discipline. We'll done Goodwin and richo

Some terrible turnovers and OMac is still a liability but we went in with a plan to bottle up their exit from Def 50 and it worked v well. 

More of this please

[Trisul 664]

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I think you're letting Oliver off the hook with that second one.  I remember at the time being really disappointed in his effort to take that mark - he was in the right position, but was almost expecting some contact so he didn't go hard enough to take it.  Had he marked it we were away through the middle of the ground.

Having re-watched it now, I'll meet you half way.  Oliver could have done better but the turn over started from the kick. (from 0.55)

https://www.afl.com.au/video/492525/highlights-melbourne-v-st-kilda?videoId=492525&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598704698001

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Trisul said:

Having re-watched it now, I'll meet you half way.  Oliver could have done better but the turn over started from the kick. (from 0.55)

https://www.afl.com.au/video/492525/highlights-melbourne-v-st-kilda?videoId=492525&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598704698001

Happy with that.

No doubt the kick could have been a little better, but it was no shank and the decision from Jones was the right one.  Oliver just needed to give a little more effort and we would have been praising both players instead of lamenting the turnover.

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

13 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I think you're letting Oliver off the hook with that second one.  I remember at the time being really disappointed in his effort to take that mark - he was in the right position, but was almost expecting some contact so he didn't go hard enough to take it.  Had he marked it we were away through the middle of the ground.

Agree.

That was a soft effort by Oliver, he shirked and went the one hander.

Jones kick was fine.

Edited August 30, 2020 by dazzledavey36

[Adam The God 30,129]

18 minutes ago, Trisul said:

Having re-watched it now, I'll meet you half way.  Oliver could have done better but the turn over started from the kick. (from 0.55)

https://www.afl.com.au/video/492525/highlights-melbourne-v-st-kilda?videoId=492525&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598704698001

Someone else mentioned this, but Stevie May getting around Clarry straight away after Clarry had coughed up that goal from the defensive stoppage in the 3rd quarter. LOVE that leadership, Stevie.

[jnrmac 20,055]

17 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

The thing that I liked was that unlike many games in the past when we dominated the stats and lost, we won this one despite the Saints winning the inside 50s 46-30, clearances 29-23, tackles 47-36, free kicks 11-9, hitouts 31-30 and scoring shots 14-12.

We only laid 2 tables in the 2nd quarter. 

That wld normally bite us in the bum

[Cassiew 1,903]

Anyone listen to the commentary on Foxtel? How ridiculously biased were they to St Kilda. What have they got against us?

[Beetle 4,601]

6 minutes ago, Cassiew said:

Anyone listen to the commentary on Foxtel? How ridiculously biased were they to St Kilda. What have they got against us?

The Foxtel commentary was the channel 7 commentary. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

3 hours ago, A F said:

I watched the final two minutes again on the AFL website and I don't know what people are talking about on this. Didn't look 15m at all.

The centre circle is a 10 metre diameter for reference.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Clint Bizkit