CHANGES: Rd 13 vs Bulldogs

[Pates 9,660]

17 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

The stuff about us not taking advantage of Max's taps is a bit overplayed.

A good example - during the Brisbane game, our boys read and received just about every first tap but fumbled in dewy conditions. Brisbane were smart in the way they approached it but they sharked the ball from our mids, not the ruck contest.

I don't think there is a prominent example where sharking Max's taps directly from the ruck contest has caused a genuine clearance win to the opposition.

Our mids need to be on song and if it's wet, we need to be a little more circumspect when approaching the first possession, instead of going all guns blazing and fumbling to the opposition sweating on us.

 

Good call, throughout that coverage they brought up the “taps to advantage” and Gawn was killing it, as you pointed out our players had the fumbles that night and Brisbane hunted the first receiver causing a spillage and from there they just worked harder and smarter to get the ball out. 

It’s one of the reasons that while I’m obviously not happy about Gawn being out I think the club should be relishing the chance to have our players hunt the ball much the same way Brisbane did. We did it a few times against the pies but mostly they got first use, I think an English v Preuss battle with the midfield both teams have will be a really interesting contest. 

The way we are pushing at the moment I’d rather us get our skipper right than rush him back in. 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Top answer, great analysis

Yes it was.  I appreciate the acknowledgement.

[JTR 2,846]

24 minutes ago, GCDee said:

Another huge game for us. A win and we go 4 points up plus 20+ % Infront of the dogs whilst being a game behind them. Would make it near impossible for them to leap frog us on the ladder given they will only have 4 games to play to our 5. 

If Gawn is 100% he comes in if not and other week off. I'm sure we will rotate another player or two. 

Will be a cracking game next week

In addition to this there is also a fair chance both the Bombers (v Tigers) and GWS (v Eagles in Perth) lose next week, so if we beat the Dogs that'll create a nice gap between us and ALL of our closest competitors.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

Just now, Pickett2Jackson said:

Yes it was.  I appreciate the acknowledgement.

Iv'e tried to explain before, as you see other posters doing, you need to.put reasoning behind an opinion, otherwise it's just waffle,so again why?

I personally think Harmes is fulfilling the role he has been given, because he is not getting the numbers or goals he has in the past posters assume he is out of form.

His inclusion in the backline, and as they both got used to it, makes the main beneficiary in Salem  who can attack more, knowing Harmes has his back

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Iv'e tried to explain before, as you see other posters doing, you need to.put reasoning behind an opinion, otherwise it's just waffle,so again why?

I personally think Harmes is fulfilling the role he has been given, because he is not getting the numbers or goals he has in the past posters assume he is out of form.

His inclusion in the backline, and as they both got used to it, makes the main beneficiary in Salem  who can attack more, knowing Harmes has his back

I like turtles

[jnrmac 20,060]

Goats are like mushrooms because if you shoot a goat I'm scared of toasters

 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

16 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Iv'e tried to explain before, as you see other posters doing, you need to.put reasoning behind an opinion, otherwise it's just waffle,so again why?

I personally think Harmes is fulfilling the role he has been given, because he is not getting the numbers or goals he has in the past posters assume he is out of form.

His inclusion in the backline, and as they both got used to it, makes the main beneficiary in Salem  who can attack more, knowing Harmes has his back

No Saty, you just don't get it! 

One's opinion does not have to be evidentiary based, or even reasoned. It is a personal point of view, expressed as such. 

You don't have to accept it, or agree with it, you simply have to recognize another's right to express it.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I love lamp. And the lady down the street is stealing soup

[Adam The God 30,231]

1 hour ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

The stuff about us not taking advantage of Max's taps is a bit overplayed.

A good example - during the Brisbane game, our boys read and received just about every first tap but fumbled in dewy conditions. Brisbane were smart in the way they approached it but they sharked the ball from our mids, not the ruck contest.

I don't think there is a prominent example where sharking Max's taps directly from the ruck contest has caused a genuine clearance win to the opposition.

Our mids need to be on song and if it's wet, we need to be a little more circumspect when approaching the first possession, instead of going all guns blazing and fumbling to the opposition sweating on us.

 

I think you're misrepresenting what some people are saying about not taking advantage of Max's taps.

When I refer to not taking advantage of his taps, I'm saying our mids either don't spread or make the wrong decision by hand or foot from the stoppage. 

I also think his taps can be too predictable, so that our mids are sitting ducks for a stoppage press from the opposition.

I think Max needs to improve and I think our mids need to improve. As a collective, they don't take advantage of either's skill enough.

[dee-tox 4,835]

30 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

I personally think Harmes is fulfilling the role he has been given, because he is not getting the numbers or goals he has in the past posters assume he is out of form.

He is horribly out of form. Fumbling, giving away stupid frees and missing targets by hand or foot. Nothing to do with role.

[binman 42,915]

2 hours ago, A F said:

 

I'm not sure I could say the Port game and yesterday's were carbon copies. We barely mustered a jog against Port, yet Collingwood were strong around stoppage. We got them on transition and stifled their ability to move the ball.

I agree that they were undermanned and had less rest time, but even though their defence was untidy at times and certainly got lost in transition because it hadn't played regularly together, I don't believe even with Roughead and Howe in that those two would have been able to stop a lot of our ball movement forward, which was excellent.

I meant Port's game against the cats was a carbon copy of our game against Port.

They were awful in that game, as bad we were v them. They just didn't spread and cover and gave the cats so much space, particular inside 50. And because they were not applying any pressure the kicks by the cats had time and space with their kicks and hit target after target. 

And unlike Port against us the Cats put the cue in the rack and were just doing what they pleased in that last quarter. Could have won by 15 goals if they kept the peddle to the metal.

Pies worked way harder than we did against Port, or Port did against the cats. So i'm not wanting to take too much away from our win. We were terrific.

As you say their back half were all over the place, which is not surprising given all the changes down there. So that helped with our excellent ratio of inside 50s to scores.

But no doubt their fatigue was factor. Grundy looked out on his feet almost from the start and Pendles was a shadow of his normal self.

Edited August 16, 2020 by binman

[Earl Hood 6,086]

1 hour ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Totally agree re: Bennell. Until he's ready to put his body on the line, we're only adding a passenger.

I understand why he's be uncomfortable throwing himself around, chasing and tackling etc. but our game plan depends on effort from every single player on the field.

Bennell is an interesting case. I watched Ross Lyon and Lloyd on Footy Classifieds on Wednesday analysing Brad Hill’s recent poor form. Footage showed him pulling out of contests, not chasing, fumbling and just not getting the ball etc. It was damning stuff but Lyon’s response to Lloyd’s question, should he be dropped was that we know his skill set is not crash and bash but speed and ball use. Ross was adamant the coaching group has to work on strategies for the team to get the ball into his hands. Ross seemed to think that is a no brainer for a good coach. I couldn’t help thinking if we have a similar situation with Bennell. He is still developing confidence in his body and no he won’t be running into packs but should we get a few more games into him and develop strategies to get the ball to him. In a similar vein I thought in our early games we were not using Langdon enough, he was always in position as an option for the ball carrier but we kept banging it up the line to contests. But in the past 4 or 5 games our mids have realised he will always be an option wide if they are in trouble and he has been great for us retaining possession and resetting our inside50’s. The coaching group knows better where Bennell is at fitness wise and if he still has the weapons that made him a great player. 

[Soidee 1,496]

Speed needed! Jones out

[dimmy 1,307]

15 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Bennell is an interesting case. I watched Ross Lyon and Lloyd on Footy Classifieds on Wednesday analysing Brad Hill’s recent poor form. Footage showed him pulling out of contests, not chasing, fumbling and just not getting the ball etc. It was damning stuff but Lyon’s response to Lloyd’s question, should he be dropped was that we know his skill set is not crash and bash but speed and ball use. Ross was adamant the coaching group has to work on strategies for the team to get the ball into his hands. Ross seemed to think that is a no brainer for a good coach. I couldn’t help thinking if we have a similar situation with Bennell. He is still developing confidence in his body and no he won’t be running into packs but should we get a few more games into him and develop strategies to get the ball to him. In a similar vein I thought in our early games we were not using Langdon enough, he was always in position as an option for the ball carrier but we kept banging it up the line to contests. But in the past 4 or 5 games our mids have realised he will always be an option wide if they are in trouble and he has been great for us retaining possession and resetting our inside50’s. The coaching group knows better where Bennell is at fitness wise and if he still has the weapons that made him a great player. 

I feel the structure and gameplan of our midfield has changed a lot for the better. The "bursting"runs of Clarrie cf the "get rid of it handballs" plus the involvement/improvement of Gus is providing our runners with more GOOD opportinities. I have not forgotten about TRacwho has been good all year. But Jack V played a similar role last week with his willingnes to share the ball instead of killing the tackler has made difference. Bennell coming back into this environment woukd be the icing on the cake.

My only wish is that the next step for Kozzie is to complete his tackles. That would make him a real menace (to others) However he is only 19 and in his first year. Think of the improvement of Sparrow, Rivers & Jackson and suddenly the world is brighter.

[dimmy 1,307]

6 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Fritsch reminds me of Geoff Tunbridge/Barrie Vagg, although a better mark/kick than both of those. When Fritsch first appeared he was a “dead eye [censored]” in front of goal but seems to have lost a lot of that accuracy, although at the same time l think his pressure has improved considerably. 
 

With all the spare time these guys have got in the hubs, you would think they would practise weaknesses like goal kicking accuracy til they got it right wouldn’t you? Still l think he is a key part of our forward setup as he can play tall and mid, and is very skilful in most areas.

You can putt the lights out until you go on to the course and then it becomes difficult

[binman 42,915]

1 hour ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

The stuff about us not taking advantage of Max's taps is a bit overplayed.

A good example - during the Brisbane game, our boys read and received just about every first tap but fumbled in dewy conditions. Brisbane were smart in the way they approached it but they sharked the ball from our mids, not the ruck contest.

 

The bolded bit is exactly right. Port did it too. Clever coaching,

An interesting part of the pies game is we did something quite similar to them. We sweated on their mids and if we didn't strip or win the ball off them we often forced them to either kick under pressure or have to retreat towards our goal to get space to kick it forward. And then in both scenarios more often than not then we marked or rebounded it at HB. Clever coaching,

[Maldonboy38 6,402]

We need to pick a team to defeat our specific opponent - the Doggies. We also need to back ourselves in with a system and gameplan that has worked against recent (weaker?) opponents.

Doggies strengths: Bontempelli is a match winner, running half backs, Hunter, they can be quick, Caleb Daniel as the backline marshal, Naughton if you let him run and leap.

Our strengths: midfield firing, better skills by foot, a very strong back 7 players and defensive system,  May, Max/Preuss/Jackson, Langdon, Weideman. 

Tag the Bont or Caleb Daniel but not both

Preuss or Max to dominate English

Our grunt should put them back a step - they don't have a lot of inside strength.

Be wary of their run and system off half-back. Hit our half-forward targets and do NOT turn it over too much here. The Dogs will torture any team that puts the ball into their hands at half back. 

Very even game, Dees by 16 points

[Adam The God 30,231]

58 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Bennell is an interesting case. I watched Ross Lyon and Lloyd on Footy Classifieds on Wednesday analysing Brad Hill’s recent poor form. Footage showed him pulling out of contests, not chasing, fumbling and just not getting the ball etc. It was damning stuff but Lyon’s response to Lloyd’s question, should he be dropped was that we know his skill set is not crash and bash but speed and ball use. Ross was adamant the coaching group has to work on strategies for the team to get the ball into his hands. Ross seemed to think that is a no brainer for a good coach. I couldn’t help thinking if we have a similar situation with Bennell. He is still developing confidence in his body and no he won’t be running into packs but should we get a few more games into him and develop strategies to get the ball to him. In a similar vein I thought in our early games we were not using Langdon enough, he was always in position as an option for the ball carrier but we kept banging it up the line to contests. But in the past 4 or 5 games our mids have realised he will always be an option wide if they are in trouble and he has been great for us retaining possession and resetting our inside50’s. The coaching group knows better where Bennell is at fitness wise and if he still has the weapons that made him a great player. 

A fully fit Bennell on a wing would be a massive asset.

[Adam The God 30,231]

18 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

We need to pick a team to defeat our specific opponent - the Doggies. We also need to back ourselves in with a system and gameplan that has worked against recent (weaker?) opponents.

Doggies strengths: Bontempelli is a match winner, running half backs, Hunter, they can be quick, Caleb Daniel as the backline marshal, Naughton if you let him run and leap.

Our strengths: midfield firing, better skills by foot, a very strong back 7 players and defensive system,  May, Max/Preuss/Jackson, Langdon, Weideman. 

Tag the Bont or Caleb Daniel but not both

Preuss or Max to dominate English

Our grunt should put them back a step - they don't have a lot of inside strength.

Be wary of their run and system off half-back. Hit our half-forward targets and do NOT turn it over too much here. The Dogs will torture any team that puts the ball into their hands at half back. 

Very even game, Dees by 16 points

If we're on our game, our defensive mechanism is set up to prevent this play.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

Gawn if fit for Preuss the only likely change. Preuss was good but if Gawn is fit, it is a no brainer. 

I don’t really rate Tomlinson and Spargo is looking like a different player in the last two weeks. 

Rivers, Bennell and Hannan need to wait it out, next in line.

Those calling for Harmes and Fritsch to be dropped saw a different game to me. Harmes, in particular, just played his best game of the year and finally looked comfortable at half back. 

[manny100 1,552]

If Max is 100% fit he comes in no question otherwise Pruess stays. Cant play both ATM. Having said that i thought Pruess competed very well against Maggs. No doubt there will be queries from other clubs at seasons end. 

Otherwise no changes.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

7 hours ago, Jock Strap said:

“It was Collingwood's fourth game in 14 days and it showed, as it suffered some uncharacteristic defensive breakdowns”. 
This is a telling quote from an article today. So while this was one of the best wins I’ve seen in recent times, I think we need to reflect carefully, rotate a couple of our guys around based on form, and with an eye towards having a larger list of ‘match fit’ players for our period of multiple 4 day breaks.  Play Preuss if Max not fully fit, bring in Bennell.

Collingwood rest some key players against the crows, and every team has played a lot of games in few days, they have been mostly rubbish, only played 2 really good games, only averaging 50 points a game, scored 44 close to their average, they only have around 6 good to excellent players on their list, and they where missing 3 of them.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

19 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Gawn if fit for Preuss the only likely change. Preuss was good but if Gawn is fit, it is a no brainer. 

I don’t really rate Tomlinson and Spargo is looking like a different player in the last two weeks. 

Rivers, Bennell and Hannan need to wait it out, next in line.

Those calling for Harmes and Fritsch to be dropped saw a different game to me. Harmes, in particular, just played his best game of the year and finally looked comfortable at half back. 

That is how Spargo was playing all of 2018, he had the second year blues last year, most don't rate him because of his height, it's a bias many have, and most are to stupid to realise they judge players on their height before they see if they can play. Some of the greats were rejected because of their height, example Tony Liberatore, diesel Williams, who were both past over and made to work the hard way.

Edited August 16, 2020 by don't make me angry

[Fat Tony 5,228]

7 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

That is how Spargo was playing all of 2018, he had the second year blues last year, most don't rate him because of his height, it's a bias many have, and most are to stupid to realise they judge players on their height before they see if they can play. Some of the greats were rejected because of their height, example Tony Liberatore, diesel Williams, who were both past over and made to work the hard way.

Actually it was the first time he has kicked 3 goals in a game. Easily his best game of AFL. 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

5 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Actually it was the first time he has kicked 3 goals in a game. Easily his best game of AFL. 

Yes  but he ended garlet's career in 2018, kept him out of the side.