One of the things that we have been developing is the flexibility of the players in being able to play multiple roles within the team as required. I can see no problem with having Oliver, Petracca, Viney and Brayshaw all in the one team with all of them rotating through a couple of different role during a game. It might be to a forward pocket or to a forward flank or even to a wing for a time but each of them have strengths and weaknesses that we need to be able to use to advantage. 

I can imagine a scenario where a player was being tagged hard and to break the tag or to move an effective opposition player to a less critical position we would rotate one of them forward and the other into the middle. that way we keep the quality in the middle and around the ball and move quality/intensity to another section of the ground.  

Having these four gives us an edge and good flexibility. we just need the coaching to push the envelope a bit.

 

 

20 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Saying you can't have Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and Oliver in the same side is like saying Brisbane would done better if they got rid of one of Voss, Black, Lappin and Akermanis.

Exactamundo.

You'd be travelling pretty well as club if you could voluntarily leave a top 10 player out of your team

52 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Saying you can't have Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and Oliver in the same side is like saying Brisbane would done better if they got rid of one of Voss, Black, Lappin and Akermanis.

I agree to an extent, except Voss and Black were both beautiful users of the footy and great winners of it too. Clarry has always reminded me of a Voss / Sam Mitchell clone. Akermanis had the x-factor Trac has and could burst through stoppage and impact the scoreboard. Lappin was more the outside, running polish that Gus gives.

Viney's not really like any of those players and what it comes down to is balance. Akermanis played an awful lot of footy forward, I reckon that's Jack's go with bursts. That's how Brisbane balanced things. 

3 hours ago, MF-C said:

I like it. 

Could rotate between him and Trac/Oliver forward. Oliver is a solid mark and well everyone knows Tracc is great in front of goals

It's a hard one but I don't think there is enough sample size for Brayshaw to play large minutes in guts just yet. 

He needs to get back to some really good form and do it against Pies/Saints and few other times before his time in there can be worthwhile. 

Viney, Kozzie and Spargo could be too much of a midget fwd line as we do tend to bomb it in. 

Would be cool to see but I think Brayshaw will slot back into that low TOG role 

Other than a third place finish in the Brownlow you mean?

2 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

Other than a third place finish in the Brownlow you mean?

can we please leave 2018 in the past where it belongs

 

2 hours ago, A F said:

Clarry has always reminded me of a Voss / Sam Mitchell clone. Akermanis had the x-factor Trac has and could burst through stoppage and impact the scoreboard. Lappin was more the outside, running polish that Gus gives.

Viney's not really like any of those players and what it comes down to is balance. Akermanis played an awful lot of footy forward, I reckon that's Jack's go with bursts. That's how Brisbane balanced things. 

I can only assume that you're talking about a cross between Voss and Mitchell ..... because Voss and Mitchell are nothing like each other as players! 

12 hours ago, mauriesy said:

Saying you can't have Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and Oliver in the same side is like saying Brisbane would done better if they got rid of one of Voss, Black, Lappin and Akermanis.

They absolutely can be in the same side and having all 4 is probably our greatest asset. But with this year's shorter matches they can't all do full match minutes in the midfield because there's not enough minutes to go around. So the best possible solution needs to be found and I firmly believe that involves playing Jack forward for significant periods.

9 hours ago, MF-C said:

can we please leave 2018 in the past where it belongs

 

So it's only ok to talk about history when it helps your argument? 

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

So it's only ok to talk about history when it helps your argument? 

Yes? 

23 hours ago, mauriesy said:

Saying you can't have Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and Oliver in the same side is like saying Brisbane would done better if they got rid of one of Voss, Black, Lappin and Akermanis.

Yes. We just have to accept that at least one of them will play a support role. I think that's what is being discussed here. At the moment, it's Brayshaw. 

Listening to press conferences, you get the feeling that Goodwin has been happy with Gus' output all year. It's just us supporters, who have the issue.

On 8/12/2020 at 10:58 PM, MF-C said:

can we please leave 2018 in the past where it belongs

 

You are joking, right? So when we say we don't have a sample size big enough to work out whether Brayshaw should play on the ball, a third placing in the Brownlow less than 2 years ago isn't helpful data to assist in making that assessment? Give me a spell.  

Edited August 17, 20204 yr by Undeeterred

40 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

You are joking, right? So when we say we don't have a sample size big enough to work out whether Brayshaw should play on the ball, a third placing in the Brownlow less than 2 years ago isn't helpful data to assist in making that assessment? Give me a spell.  

No it's not at all. 2 years is such a long time in footy.

In our prelim vs WCE we played Frost, Tyson, Joel Smith, Lewis and ANB. So I take everything that year as a potential outlier. 

The only correlation I can see with Brayshaw in 2018 (and of course now it's made public in 2020) is that he still doesn't play much time on ground. 

So it seems Goodwin had a role for him in 2019 even with low TOG where we played him anywhere but in the middle.

So in 2019 it was TOG +Out of Position = Average Year (plus we just stunk last year)

So whatever we have been doing since the Adel game is working, keep it going he doesn't need to find his 2018 form - just needs to play his role.  

He's only averaging 17 touches, but if they're effective and he helps us win then so be it. 

2 minutes ago, MF-C said:

No it's not at all. 2 years is such a long time in footy.

In our prelim vs WCE we played Frost, Tyson, Joel Smith, Lewis and ANB. So I take everything that year as a potential outlier. 

The only correlation I can see with Brayshaw in 2018 (and of course now it's made public in 2020) is that he still doesn't play much time on ground. 

So it seems Goodwin had a role for him in 2019 even with low TOG where we played him anywhere but in the middle.

So in 2019 it was TOG +Out of Position = Average Year (plus we just stunk last year)

So whatever we have been doing since the Adel game is working, keep it going he doesn't need to find his 2018 form - just needs to play his role.  

He's only averaging 17 touches, but if they're effective and he helps us win then so be it. 

Pretty disingenuous using these stats as any sort of evidence given through the first 10 rounds he barely attended centre bounces.

The thing that I'd look to achieve is to have Brayshaw on ball without attending centre bounces. Viney can be in at the bounce and then swap over with Gus to a half forward flank at the next stoppage.

Because I really think we need Viney to crash in against Libba and either Sparrow or even Harmes for speed to counter Bailey Smith.

Once the game gets set and played with out structure we've seen the benefit of Brayshaw combining with our other mids and playing like a centreman and being very dangerous. But I bet you the Dogs are thinking we can run off this guy.

 

I know Petracca is our best midfielder, but perhaps the best solution to our glut of inside mids is to play him 60-70% forward (except for centre bounces). 

5 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I know Petracca is our best midfielder, but perhaps the best solution to our glut of inside mids is to play him 60-70% forward (except for centre bounces). 

What we have with Trac is so different and explosive compared to Viney, Oliver, and Gus. We need to keep playing Trac in the middle. I would really like to see them try Viney in the AvB role. 

8 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I know Petracca is our best midfielder, but perhaps the best solution to our glut of inside mids is to play him 60-70% forward (except for centre bounces). 

I disagree with this. I think it's opposition dependent and also dependent on how the midfield is functioning at any one given time.

I'd also say Oliver is our best mid, but that's a difficult debate. 

8 hours ago, Pates said:

What we have with Trac is so different and explosive compared to Viney, Oliver, and Gus. We need to keep playing Trac in the middle. I would really like to see them try Viney in the AvB role. 

Here is an interesting article about Dustin Martin. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-11/how-richmond-tigers-afl-player-dustin-martin-destroys-compeition/12335750

It basically says that he really just starts in the centre bounces before drifting forward. The Tigers do this to maximise the impact of his contested ball winning ability and to conserve his energy (as he has a small tank for an AFL midfielder). I would use this as the blue print for Petracca, particularly given we are stocked full of good midfielders. Particularly now that he has sorted out his goal kicking.

Cats keen on Viney according to Jay Clark

*couldnt find the right thread

On 8/11/2020 at 9:31 AM, Pollyanna said:

I'm officially starting the #PlayJackVineyforward campaign. @A F and I have been banging on this drum for 2 years and I think now is the time to pull the trigger.

As everyone here knows, I'm a big Simon Goodwin fan and a big Jack Viney fan. 

Jack has been having a very good year in the midfield but the honest facts are that he's behind Christian Petracca and Clayton Oliver in the pecking order and he's very similar to Oliver in focus on first possession.  As has been widely discussed, the shorter quarters and season is providing less scope for midfield rotations and 3 starting mids instead of 4 is the current core requirement.  I think that Angus Brayshaw provides more of a point of difference in there and that Petracca, Oliver and Brayshaw is the go-to combination - another factor in this is that Angus has shown his breakaway from the stoppages delivers tremendous metres gained and he struggles to be effective elsewhere.

The facts are we're a developing team that's currently middle of the road and we need to make a quantum step to mix it with the best teams - the key problem has been our connection with the forward line but that has been improving with Weed's establishment.  Viney has all the attributes to make a real difference to converting our chances, locking it in and causing defender chaos balls if it does come back out.  He is incredible in the contest and has the rare ability to beat a couple of opponents that is required when outnumbered down there.  I laugh when I hear opposition supporters say he is slow - he is lightning over the first 3 metres, his tackling is legendary and opposition defenders will be crying themselves to sleep the night before playing us because if Jack doesn't get you, Kossie will and if you happen to escape the back 50 you'll run into Vanders.

Jack might see his move from the midfield as a demotion and might play angry - look out!  But the small forward role is glamour - I know he's a different type of player but think Robbie Gray. Toby Green and Cyril.  He can be a legend down there.

Come on Simon, you know it makes sense.

I love this idea as he is a disruption in the midfield . I think  he would be dynamite on the forward line as long as he doesn’t try to out mark our leading forward as  he does around the ground. 
 

He is a wrecking ball and I love that but he has also to engage brain 

3 hours ago, DubDee said:

Cats keen on Viney according to Jay Clark

*couldnt find the right thread

 

They'd love him as a Selwood replacement.      Jay Clark has had good mail on the Demons in the past so this might have some legs.