What will our gameplan in 2025 look like?

I read with interest that during pre Christmas training some of the drills had us full ground spreading and pulling the trigger, using the corridor with quick ball movement. I feel if we don’t play this way we will be left behind and have another wasted year. The obvious comment is do we have enough skilled players to play this way? My counter argument would be who does? The Giants perhaps the only one yet a few teams play this way, Hawks, Pies, Port etc. How much of this style is about

Having elite kicks of the footy on every line

vs

Having your best users by foot coming out from halfback.

Players running / spreading to create an overlap and breakdown a zone.

Relentless pressure when not in possession including laying effective tackles.

Quick direct ball movement to an open fwd line. 

A well drilled gameplan.

Using Collingwood as an example,(some might say not a great one as they missed finals last season) they player for player wouldn’t be as skilful as the Giants yet they tick all the other boxes. Then when the ball goes fwd they have Miohcheck (no star but constantly presents and competes) DeGoey (on his day is very dangerous) Hill (unchecked will kick multiple goals) Elliot (is star often kicking clutch goals). We’ve struggled to score for the past three seasons. Now replace Miohcheck for JVR, DeGoey for Trac, Hill for Kosi and Elliot for Fritsch. How many goals a game / season do those four players kick playing in Collingwood’s forward line.
With this style there’s also the element of bamboozlement, the ball constantly coming in quickly, and the opposition has a range of different sized, highly skilled fwds with space to deal with, they often become overrun and multiplie goals can be scored quickly. 
The other thing I believe teams do better than us is back in their guns in one v one contests.

If the ball is turned over it can quickly come back the other way with interest, but both teams can be out of position.  It’s also hard to sustain this week in week out but we should be aiming to play a more attacking style for longer parts of each game. Last year at times when we do play with speed on the ball we looked dangerous.

On 20/08/2024 at 14:30, Adam The God said:

I never like to let this thread go too cold.

Okay, figured I'd go the early crow and do a best 22+1 pre draft and trade period, which is a bit dangerous.

The task here for no particular reason is to build a side that I think could contend, by only utilising those on the list currently, so no new players. (obviously, we will bring in talent and this side will change and get even stronger)

With a fresh pre season, I think this team could go places, and score more, but probably concede a little more too.

Here goes...

AMW May Lever

McVee TMac Salem

Langdon Oliver Windsor

Fritta Turner Melksham

Koz JVR Trac

Max Viney Rivers

Bowey Spargo Kolt Petty

Sub. between Billings, Sparrow and Howes.

Playing Fritta and Melksham as high half forwards would certainly lessen our defensive set up, but I think have an astronomical effect on the efficiency of our inside 50 entries. I'd be playing Spargo as the more defensive high half forward in that group, but his ball use by foot is also elite. Trac would rotate between high half forward and deep forward too.

Midfield rotations are: Oliver (as the anchor with most CBAs), Viney (also spending time as a pressure forward), Rivers (also playing half back attacking role), McVee (also playing half back attacking role with Rivers - occasionally will be out of rotation to play lockdown defensive role), Trac (40% mid, 60% forward, rotating forward high and deep), Koz (25-30% mid burst play, keep building on his 2024 output in midfield), Kolt (mostly forward, but some around the ground stoppages to use his explosiveness and bash and crash physicality) and if necessary, Salem (mostly half back anchor though). If Sparrow plays as sub, he plays his usual defensive role, which frees someone else up.

Petty plays forward for 2025, but is to be utilised as a swingman if injuries occur down the other end.

JVR plays second ruck again, not ideal, but it is what it is.

I'd be playing +1 or even +2 at contest next year, be really aggressive at stoppages, back our defenders to win 1v1s behind the ball, and get it to the likes of Trac, Melky, Fritta, Koz, Spargo across half forward, and Salem, McVee and Windsor across half back.

I always liked this thread.

Given our new recruits, how do they fit in with this post

Keep this thread warm !

8 hours ago, 640MD said:

I always liked this thread.

Given our new recruits, how do they fit in with this post

Keep this thread warm !

My team has changed and plans for Petty too. Love that Petty is training again with backs, but will likely swing.

6 hours ago, Adam The God said:

My team has changed and plans for Petty too. Love that Petty is training again with backs, but will likely swing.

Just thinking off the top of my head, that will mean something like, Petty, T Mac and perhaps Johnson rotating through

Back, forward and interchange Bench   ??

I am looking forward to this year more than I was last but 2022 was a disappointment after half way.

 

I really rate Chaplin as a coach and I reckon we're gonna explode next year as an offensive force.

It'll be interesting to see if we get the balance between attack and defence right.

Edited January 13Jan 13 by Adam The God

On 12/01/2025 at 23:58, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Now replace Miohcheck for JVR, DeGoey for Trac, Hill for Kosi and Elliot for Fritsch. How many goals a game / season do those four players kick playing in Collingwood’s forward line.

Mumbai - this is how rumours start.  

“JVR, Kosovo, Fritsch, Trac transferring to bolster Collingwood as stated on authoritative MFC website”  😮😮😮🙄🙄🙄🤗🤗🤗

On 10/01/2025 at 21:20, Sideshow Bob said:

He'll be right. Aye

Might have just found our new FF. 

Play Trac out of the goal square pagans paddock style. Roo at CHf, koz and chin sprinting in from points of the square 

Fritta starts 30 m out 3 rows in to grandstand. 6th man sprinting straight to defence at the centre bounce

 

6-6-6 may have almost KOd Pagan’s paddock

On 12/01/2025 at 23:58, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Now replace Miohcheck for JVR, DeGoey for Trac, Hill for Kosi and Elliot for Fritsch. How many goals a game / season do those four players kick playing in Collingwood’s forward line.

2024:

• Mihocek, de Goey, Hill, Elliot: 80 goals from 62 games
• JVR, Petracca, Pickett, Fritsch: 121 goals from 78 games

2023:

• Mihocek, de Goey, Hill, Elliot: 137 goals from 93 games
• JVR, Petracca, Pickett, Fritsch: 131 goals from 85 games

fairly similar output in 2023 (van rooyen's first year in the afl) and then quite a bit more scoreboard impact in 2024 for the dees' foursome that you nominated as a comparison point

fwiw, the filth really missed mihocek in 2024 - he straightens then up remarkably

8 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

2024:

• Mihocek, de Goey, Hill, Elliot: 80 goals from 62 games
• JVR, Petracca, Pickett, Fritsch: 121 goals from 78 games

2023:

• Mihocek, de Goey, Hill, Elliot: 137 goals from 93 games
• JVR, Petracca, Pickett, Fritsch: 131 goals from 85 games

fairly similar output in 2023 (van rooyen's first year in the afl) and then quite a bit more scoreboard impact in 2024 for the dees' foursome that you nominated as a comparison point

fwiw, the filth really missed mihocek in 2024 - he straightens then up remarkably

Great post, 

I clearly hadn’t run the numbers, it was more of an assumption based on my personal viewing of every Melbourne game and 6-8 Collingwood games (when they’re playing Thursday / Friday nights). Those numbers are interesting, recently we have struggled to score / make hard work of it, where as Collingwood seem at times to seem to score at will. 
  

To sink my initial argument even further, 

2023

Melbourne F 2079 A 1660

Collingwood F 2142 A 1687

2024

Melbourne F 1785 A 1812

Collingwood F 1991 A 1943

Not a great difference there either.

Moving on from any more ill fated comparisons I still believe and from I’m reading we will be, and that is playing a more attacking brand of footy focusing on quick direct ball movement into an open fwd line. 

I stand by my comment that we don’t back in our players in enough one v one contests when going inside 50. We have the some real quality, let’s play to their advantage / skill sets.

9 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Great post, 

I clearly hadn’t run the numbers, it was more of an assumption based on my personal viewing of every Melbourne game and 6-8 Collingwood games (when they’re playing Thursday / Friday nights). Those numbers are interesting, recently we have struggled to score / make hard work of it, where as Collingwood seem at times to seem to score at will. 
  

To sink my initial argument even further, 

2023

Melbourne F 2079 A 1660

Collingwood F 2142 A 1687

2024

Melbourne F 1785 A 1812

Collingwood F 1991 A 1943

Not a great difference there either.

Moving on from any more ill fated comparisons I still believe and from I’m reading we will be, and that is playing a more attacking brand of footy focusing on quick direct ball movement into an open fwd line. 

I stand by my comment that we don’t back in our players in enough one v one contests when going inside 50. We have the some real quality, let’s play to their advantage / skill sets.

i think we and the filth are remarkably similar in terms of what our output is, if not our method

i expect both us to be pushing for top 8 in 2025, it not top 4

both teams are very much set up as 'win now' teams who should be striving to be in the premiership 'conversation'

It all comes down to the way we rebound and transition the ball from the back in my view. We know what the personnel up forward is and I don't think that will change all that much, we know what kind of defence we play etc.

Will we be able to rebound hard and counter the quickest possible way through the middle is what I'm looking for with the backs not sitting quite as high in case it comes back the other way. 

41 minutes ago, layzie said:

It all comes down to the way we rebound and transition the ball from the back in my view. We know what the personnel up forward is and I don't think that will change all that much, we know what kind of defence we play etc.

Will we be able to rebound hard and counter the quickest possible way through the middle is what I'm looking for with the backs not sitting quite as high in case it comes back the other way. 

I actually think the defensive unit will continue to sit high.

The transition game doesn't work properly if the defensive line is too close to the opponents goal.

The key to effective transition is compressing the ground and winning it back as close to your goals as possible.

It's why for example, even in 2023 when they were playing their best footy, the pies were always a chance to be scored against on the rebound.

That was one of the key reasons we struggled defensively last year.

In most games our defensive line was set way higher than previous years and that totally stress tested our structure, leg speed and fitness (because once the ball is turned over up the field the defensive unit has to bolt back to defend the turnover).

Steve May, who was absolutely gassed, spoke to that very issue in his post game, on ground interview after our win over the tigers.

Because of his leg speed, having Windsor behind the ball will really help with our transition.

But i reckon just as importantly his leg speed will help us defend turnovers because he will be able to get back quickly - something tmac, may and Lever all struggled to do last year.

Edited January 14Jan 14 by binman

2 hours ago, binman said:

I actually think the defensive unit will continue to sit high.

The transition game doesn't work properly if the defensive line is too close to the opponents goal.

The key to effective transition is compressing the ground and winning it back as close to your goals as possible.

It's why for example, even in 2023 when they were playing their best footy, the pies were always a chance to be scored against on the rebound.

That was one of the key reasons we struggled defensively last year.

In most games our defensive line was set way higher than previous years and that totally stress tested our structure, leg speed and fitness (because once the ball is turned over up the field the defensive unit has to bolt back to defend the turnover).

Steve May, who was absolutely gassed, spoke to that very issue in his post game, on ground interview after our win over the tigers.

Because of his leg speed, having Windsor behind the ball will really help with our transition.

But i reckon just as importantly his leg speed will help us defend turnovers because he will be able to get back quickly - something tmac, may and Lever all struggled to do last year.

Having Langdon and Sharp play further towards our defence will help our defensive efforts no - given their excellent endurance running power.

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Having Langdon and Sharp play further towards our defence will help our defensive efforts no - given their excellent endurance running power.

Agree.

Will cover the loss of nibbla too a bit because he was critical to our defence - how often last year was nibbla that last one standing inside the oppo 50?

I'm a simple fan, i just want to see a good old fashioned slugfest and some centre clearance dominance with some pack marks and marks on a lead in the forward line to the roar of the G.

And a bunch of desperate spoils in defence because our defenders are all on their direct opponents. And we stifle the opponents run and carry via slowed down zone defence. And we somehow end up kicking a winning score. Maybe thats bygone era thinking, "low percentage goal" thinking

If every club plays fast attacking skillful slingshot rebound footy, then eventually after a few years, it will become homogenous and boring. And the team with the next tactical innovation that stifles it and slows it down will become the new breath of fresh air, the new exciting. It was exciting to see Sydney and West Coast emerge in 05/06 with 60 point scoreline after years of attacking fast footy. Same with there Saints and Pies in 2010. 

I know Goody has said he wants us to be a team that plays fast exciting footy, but a part of me hopes thats part charade for the media, and we will double down on our fundamentals of stifling zone defense. And through an improvement in emerging personnel up forward and an injection of youth with skillful disposal, will finally be able to execute the game plan that won us the flag in 2021, again.

It will be a redemption of sorts, winning it your own way. Hawthorn won in 08 and then again in 13. There was a 5 year gap in which they had to re-tool and re-assess how they did it, but I think they still had the backbone ethos of a strong defence. They just added a lethal forward line and players that could execute ball movement skillfully. Hopefully that is something we are looking to emulate (obviously)

I still hope to see us Dominate in the centre, kick goals efficiently. Clamp down on the opposition via elite fitness and nullify their attack with defensive pressure primarily. But skillful "modern ball movement" on the turnover as a 'fall back' secondary strength.

Maybe the game has moved past this line of thinking though. It looks to have moved past Carlton who has never had a great defence to fall back on

Just like we haven't had a great forward line... Yet (?) - 3 seasons of waiting for a forward line to be able to capitalize on our strength.

Maybe we've forgotten how close we were in 2023. Add 2 years of  development into JVR, an injection of youth, high draftees. No injuries to our midfield core, and we might be able to contend again with our own identity. Not conforming to what the competition wants footy to look like in 2025.

Edited March 15Mar 15 by John Demonic

Ya know...

After seeing some outrageously high scores the last 2 weeks, a bit of boring contest and defence sounds quite alright. I'd love a classic 60 to 90 point win today

5/7 games with a score of 100 points 

Edited March 16Mar 16 by MrFreeze

1 minute ago, MrFreeze said:

Ya know...

After seeing some outrageously high scores the last 2 weeks, a bit of boring contest and defence sounds quite alright. I'd love a classic 60 to 90 point win today

5/7 games with a score of 100 points 

I’ll be over the moon if we score 90 points today tbh.

Our forward set up at the start of the game saw us push all our smaller forwards up to CHF (Henderson, Chandler, Sparrow and maybe Fritta, whoever the other forward was), and left JVR in the goal square and Jeffo 20m in front of JVR.

It meant when our mids won clearance out the front of the centre stoppage, our mids were kicking to two 1v1s, and each had separation.

The resulting opening centre clearance was an entry to the two deepest forwards, with JVR making the contest and bringing it to ground, and Jeffo crumbing it and finishing.

Our forwardline functioned so much better today. This will be an exciting watch this year. We just need to convert those very gettable shots.

Edited March 16Mar 16 by Adam The God

Yeah, worked a lot better. But, again, we don’t have many natural forwards. Especially when Fritsch doesn’t exist as a player.

When we didn’t move it into the middle and quickly, it stood out - that’s a good sign to me and we just have to commit - and when CP5 has a 1-1 in the 50 he gets the ball from wherever - no hesitation - but we hesitated…

He is our match winner - feed him.

5 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Our forward set up at the start of the game saw us push all our smaller forwards up to CHF (Henderson, Chandler, Sparrow and maybe Fritta, whoever the other forward was), and left JVR in the goal square and Jeffo 20m in front of JVR.

It meant when our mids won clearance out the front of the centre stoppage, our mids were kicking to two 1v1s, and each had separation.

The resulting opening centre clearance was an entry to the two deepest forwards, with JVR making the contest and bringing it to ground, and Jeffo crumbing it and finishing.

Our forwardline functioned so much better today. This will be an exciting watch this year. We just need to convert those very gettable shots.

The only problem is Fritsch gets lost further up. His best role is deep forward. 

55 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

The only problem is Fritsch gets lost further up. His best role is deep forward. 

I'm not sure I completely agree. I think he is certainly more dangerous deeper forward, but on a dryer day he'd be fine as a high half forward. Doesn't mean he doesn't ever go deep, but playing mostly high keeps the forwardline open.

59 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Yeah, worked a lot better. But, again, we don’t have many natural forwards. Especially when Fritsch doesn’t exist as a player.

When we didn’t move it into the middle and quickly, it stood out - that’s a good sign to me and we just have to commit - and when CP5 has a 1-1 in the 50 he gets the ball from wherever - no hesitation - but we hesitated…

He is our match winner - feed him.

I agree.

And Kozzy's absence is huge, both through the midfield and in the forward half.

It's hard to get a read on our future forward fortunes off today given the conditions. Even though Marvel is a funny shape, we'll get a better read next week or the week after.

8 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I agree.

And Kozzy's absence is huge, both through the midfield and in the forward half.

It's hard to get a read on our future forward fortunes off today given the conditions. Even though Marvel is a funny shape, we'll get a better read next week or the week after.

I think we are the goods. I have been wrong before - but we were cleaner than we should have been and we had a plan moving forward. My only worry is commitment to that plan. When we shared with hands and went quick we looked damaging. I would want to see more positive movement from talls and Fritsch but they were either terrible, down, a first gamer that was a competitor for 4 quarters, or a first gamer who was a broken watch - in the right twice…

73 points against that team in those conditions is a fair effort with the above.

Edited March 16Mar 16 by rpfc

I think Kozzy into the midfield with out of the front stoppage take aways like today will see us hit up leading forwards more ofren. ie Kozzy is a beautiful field kick.

The other guy who I wouldn't be against playing midfield very soon is Lindsay. He has the toughness and speed, but it's his cleanness and ball use that could transform our midfield, particularly alongside say a Kozzy and Clarry.

And I'll say it again, vote 1 Jack Viney as defensive pressure forward. Add Spargo and Kolt into that forward pressure mix, and we're getting there.

11 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I think Kozzy into the midfield with out of the front stoppage take aways like today will see us hit up leading forwards more ofren. ie Kozzy is a beautiful field kick.

The other guy who I wouldn't be against playing midfield very soon is Lindsay. He has the toughness and speed, but it's his cleanness and ball use that could transform our midfield, particularly alongside say a Kozzy and Clarry.

And I'll say it again, vote 1 Jack Viney as defensive pressure forward. Add Spargo and Kolt into that forward pressure mix, and we're getting there.

Having Lindsay and Windsor generate our transition from half back will be key IMV. They need a few partners in crime i.e Rivers, McVee to win defensive ball.

It may not come all together this year, but i have seen enough of Lindsay to know he will be a good player. Paired with Windsor and hopefully Langford and Riv, will be the future of our midfield. Oliver and Trac will give us another 5 years of footy as well. So i think we can start focusing on plugging other areas of the team.

Is there any chance we could sit back and look at everything that happened yesterday in totality? Six new faces, a refreshed gameplan, playing a team that is predicted to be a premiership threat who had a week of match fitness under them, we led for most of the day, and lost in the last 90 seconds with a play that reminded me of the 1987 Prelim Final.  We can look at all the negatives but there are plenty of positives to come out of it.  This week will be better suited to what we want to achieve through faster ball movement on a slick deck under a roof. Remember, in over 129 years no-one has won the Grand Final in March!