5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Lots of green ticks for JT.  He is very very good.  If only he’d been at MFC for 2007-12.
I have every confidence in him getting us more and more quality kids.  

The only strange one is 2018 and I’d love to have a beer with him to discuss it  

We’d lost to the Eagles and had shown problems in pace and run.  I remember losing to the Saints in 2018 and thought we needed more young outside mids and wingers. I think JT was hoping for Xavier Duursma or perhaps Sam Sturt to be available but both were gone by our pick. 

Tom Sparrow at 27. He’s a good kid and will be good but unsure how he fits our midfield structure as we had 5-6 inside mids already proven on the books and needed the outside run and pace. Most draft watchers had him in the 45-60 range. Will Hamill from Stingrays had been ranked early 20s and I thought we were ready to pounce.  Hamill went to Crows at 30

James Jordan at 33.  Another young inside mid who can play outside and has skill. Was ranked about 60-rookie range so a big call at 33.  Again not sure he was our need. 
Bailey Williams was the big agile ruckman who dropped from top 15 range to be available.  Maybe because we had traded in Preuss was why we skipped on Williams.  Eagles stole him at 35. Sure we got Jackson as the next gen young ruckman but only because of a horrible MFC 2019. 
 

 

I think we were all over Sturt and remember we tried to trade our future first for Butters.

I really liked Hamill but one tackle from ANB had him in a bad way. I'm all for drafting skinny kids because they do fill out, it's nonsense to think otherwise, but they have to have the ability to withstand contact. I think teams had Sparrow higher than that 45+ range, the Suns had him next on their board at 23. 

The JJ pick was more of a reach and he hasn't had his chance to show us what he can do unfortunately. Not convinced by Bailey Williams. Has a nice leap but looks a depth type so far. Vandermeer and McInerny the outside mids we could've taken if we had our time again.

On 9/8/2020 at 6:39 PM, SFebes said:

Unsure about Jackson and Pickett so far, shown glimpses but I'll be happy to wait another year to see what they have. Rivers though looks a natural footballer with composure, unsure on leg speed but happy with him so far.

I wasn’t sure about drafting a ruckman but I really think we already look a better team with Jackson playing.

Pickett will come good.

13 hours ago, 58er said:

FGSake the kid is 18/19 yo.

Has special skills etc and is only a shadow of the finished product.

Clearly Hannan AVB Bedford ANB and about 3 others are not grabbing a spot do Kossie is learning on the job!

Made a good fist of it last night just didn't finish off his goal kicking!

 

You expect some insanity on football fan sites but the criticism of Pickett takes the cake.

7 hours ago, Grimes Times said:

What has that got to do with Taylor.

Pick 8 [ pickett, rivers, pick 61 2020]	North Melbourne	Melbourne	Pick 26 [harrison jones]	[52]
			Pick 50 [cameron taheny]
			2020 first round pick (Melbourne) [~pick 10]

 

Pick 10 [pickett]	Fremantle	Melbourne	Pick 8 [serong]	[79]
Pick 28 [rivers]
2020 fourth round pick (Carlton) [~pick 61]

 

Whilst I like rivers and think pickett will be both be good players it was a big giveaway

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think we were all over Sturt and remember we tried to trade our future first for Butters.

I really liked Hamill but one tackle from ANB had him in a bad way. I'm all for drafting skinny kids because they do fill out, it's nonsense to think otherwise, but they have to have the ability to withstand contact. I think teams had Sparrow higher than that 45+ range, the Suns had him next on their board at 23. 

The JJ pick was more of a reach and he hasn't had his chance to show us what he can do unfortunately. Not convinced by Bailey Williams. Has a nice leap but looks a depth type so far. Vandermeer and McInerny the outside mids we could've taken if we had our time again.

Sparrow is a solid player. Give him time.

Skinny player don't fill out all the time, if any good they become rangey. A reach and flexible Gumby like physical.

Morton didn't fill out. 

 

Jason Taylor is doing a great job with who he has recruited. Time will tell. 

Not sure the 'criteria'  of what he stacks up everytime, however I watch footy on a Saturday. I'm not an expert, I moderately like the game, occasionally.

However it is obvious he knows more than the rest of us.

1. Oliver

2. Tracc

3. Brayshaw

4. Rivers

5. Jackson

6. Sparrow

7. Pickett (should have twice as many goals)

8. Langdon

There are plenty more of his recruits to come through, he is setting us up for another 5 years. They need time to develop and the coaches and dieticians to do that.

34 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Pick 8 [ pickett, rivers, pick 61 2020]	North Melbourne	Melbourne	Pick 26 [harrison jones]	[52]
			Pick 50 [cameron taheny]
			2020 first round pick (Melbourne) [~pick 10]

 

Pick 10 [pickett]	Fremantle	Melbourne	Pick 8 [serong]	[79]
Pick 28 [rivers]
2020 fourth round pick (Carlton) [~pick 61]

 

Whilst I like rivers and think pickett will be both be good players it was a big giveaway

I think we may find in time, that Rivers may have been worth the first rounder alone

13 minutes ago, adonski said:

I think we may find in time, that Rivers may have been worth the first rounder alone

i hope so

1 hour ago, Captain Todd said:

Jason Taylor is doing a great job with who he has recruited. Time will tell. 

Not sure the 'criteria'  of what he stacks up everytime, however I watch footy on a Saturday. I'm not an expert, I moderately like the game, occasionally.

However it is obvious he knows more than the rest of us.

1. Oliver

2. Tracc

3. Brayshaw

4. Rivers

5. Jackson

6. Sparrow

7. Pickett (should have twice as many goals)

8. Langdon

There are plenty more of his recruits to come through, he is setting us up for another 5 years. They need time to develop and the coaches and dieticians to do that.

Just to correct Langdon was drafted by Freo at pick 54 in 2014. JT passed him up on picks 40, 42 and 53 (Anb, Stretch and OMac).

JT has a great record with the low picks. 

And yes we all love the new Riv. 

1 hour ago, Elegt said:

Whilst I like rivers and think pickett will be both be good players it was a big giveaway

We paid a future first, 26 and pick 50 (which is effectively zero since we weren't using it anyway) for pick 10 (Pickett), 28 (Rivers) and a future fourth rounder.

In reality, we traded 26 for 28 (Rivers) and a future fourth rounder, and our future first round for pick 10 (Pickett). It makes perfect sense.

If we had a first rounder in 2020 still, we'd be screaming out to draft Pickett. 

1 hour ago, Captain Todd said:

Jason Taylor is doing a great job with who he has recruited. Time will tell. 

Not sure the 'criteria'  of what he stacks up everytime, however I watch footy on a Saturday. I'm not an expert, I moderately like the game, occasionally.

However it is obvious he knows more than the rest of us.

1. Oliver

2. Tracc

3. Brayshaw

4. Rivers

5. Jackson

6. Sparrow

7. Pickett (should have twice as many goals)

8. Langdon

There are plenty more of his recruits to come through, he is setting us up for another 5 years. They need time to develop and the coaches and dieticians to do that.

Brayshaw ahead of Degoey?

Oliver is his claim to fame. Jackson has the potential to be another one.

He has had picks that other recruiters could only dream of. It is not obvious that he knows more than the rest of us. Most of us could have picked these players from our couch.

Claiming Rivers as a masterstroke has Denonland 2012 written all over it. 

6 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Brayshaw ahead of Degoey?

Oliver is his claim to fame. Jackson has the potential to be another one.

He has had picks that other recruiters could only dream of. It is not obvious that he knows more than the rest of us. Most of us could have picked these players from our couch.

Claiming Rivers as a masterstroke has Denonland 2012 written all over it. 

De Goey did look good tonight. 

2 hours ago, Captain Todd said:

Morton didn't fill out

Thats a low blow .

32 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Just to correct Langdon was drafted by Freo at pick 54 in 2014. JT passed him up on picks 40, 42 and 53 (Anb, Stretch and OMac).

JT has a great record with the low picks. 

And yes we all love the new Riv. 

I'm not arguing with you, we are doing better. Above 15, can you guarantee a player?

If you draft a top 15 player you are choosing a 10 year player. They'll be good for ten years, more than likely they'll top some obscurse tally figure.

Its choosing the bottom 6 of your team that wins premierships.

6 minutes ago, kallangurdemon said:

Thats a low blow .

I filled out, alhought that was Chicken Schnitzels and jugs of beer.

2 hours ago, Captain Todd said:

Sparrow is a solid player. Give him time.

Skinny player don't fill out all the time, if any good they become rangey. A reach and flexible Gumby like physical.

Morton didn't fill out. 

 

Fill out is the wrong word, but most add some bulk and the more rangy guys usually end up very strong in the core. I'm not at all against drafting skinny players like some on here occasionally suggest not to do, but skinny guys without desire for the contest is another thing altogether. Morts didn't seem to have the desire for the contest nor the professionalism to strengthen his body.

I don't think Taylor has been especially good or bad - and most of what's being said here is overstated. Rivers for example fell to our pick and we took him. Petracca and Brayshaw together were lucky but then obvious. Picks around the 30s are what you might expect to get as a total return on your picks in that range. We've had a focus on Casey players and building systems. 2018 was a bit odd for player-type but that's not all down to Taylor. Clarry though was our big one - and Jason will always get a pass-mark from me on that alone - but the next biggest recruitment gamble was made last year, and while the signs are good we just won't know how that's going to pan out for a couple years from now. Missing players like Cripps, Bont, and De Goey is one thing - many recruiters did - but it's the early first-round 'reaches' he will be judged on: Oliver, Jackson and Pickett. 

I think Jason Taylor has done a reasonably good job. Some hits and some misses.

 

Need to draft more players who are good kicks and excellent decision makers though.

 

Will need to focus on finding replacements for Jetta, Hibberd, Jones and another good quality tall forward.

 

Will be interesting this year doing the drafting especially for Victoria because of the Coronavirus (COVID-19) situation so I think a lot of the later picks will be very speculative. 

 

Let's hope we can get a few smokeys that nobody else knew much about. We will have to wait and see?

 

Edited September 14, 20204 yr by Supreme_Demon

4 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I don't think Taylor has been especially good or bad - and most of what's being said here is overstated. Rivers for example fell to our pick and we took him. Petracca and Brayshaw together were lucky but then obvious. Picks around the 30s are what you might expect to get as a total return on your picks in that range. We've had a focus on Casey players and building systems. 2018 was a bit odd for player-type but that's not all down to Taylor. Clarry though was our big one - and Jason will always get a pass-mark from me on that alone - but the next biggest recruitment gamble was made last year, and while the signs are good we just won't know how that's going to pan out for a couple years from now. Missing players like Cripps, Bont, and De Goey is one thing - many recruiters did - but it's the early first-round 'reaches' he will be judged on: Oliver, Jackson and Pickett. 

Weideman?

Drafting is an inexact science. Even the best don't nail 100% of their picks and then you have to look at development post drafting as well

How do our picks over the last 6 or 7 years stack up against the rest of the comp. That's where you can start to judge how good Taylor has been. Our drafting prior to him was diabolical so maybe he just looks good in comparison? Or maybe he is hitting above average compared to the rest of the league? I don't know but would be interesting to see some comparisons.

12 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I don't think Taylor has been especially good or bad - and most of what's being said here is overstated. Rivers for example fell to our pick and we took him. Petracca and Brayshaw together were lucky but then obvious. Picks around the 30s are what you might expect to get as a total return on your picks in that range. We've had a focus on Casey players and building systems. 2018 was a bit odd for player-type but that's not all down to Taylor. Clarry though was our big one - and Jason will always get a pass-mark from me on that alone - but the next biggest recruitment gamble was made last year, and while the signs are good we just won't know how that's going to pan out for a couple years from now. Missing players like Cripps, Bont, and De Goey is one thing - many recruiters did - but it's the early first-round 'reaches' he will be judged on: Oliver, Jackson and Pickett. 

Important to remember the likes of Cripps, Bont and De Goey also rose up draft boards a long way between the media group think and when the recruiters had their say. Bont and De Goey were a bit like Oliver, a fair way back at the start of the draft process but very highly regarded by the time the event occurred and Bont was seen as a risk. Cripps finished last in the 3km time trial and one of their recruiters quit when they picked him.

So there's plenty of room for JT to have nailed the early picks without having followed the narrow consensus. I actually want to see him have more success with late round and rookie picks. His early claim to fame was taking Harmes and Vanders and we haven't really followed up with rookies like that since. 

On 8/11/2020 at 8:14 PM, Elegt said:

While I love Frost he is not worth pick 23, hence why he is not at the dees anymore

So Joel Smith is worthy of being on the list?  Getting a game  where he is not at the Afl standard. Someone has got it wrong. 

Wouldn't be Taylor's doing . B grade rookie at the time. An experiment gone haywire.

Could have done with Frosty.  It was the wrong call. 

23 hours ago, adonski said:

Really pleased to see Jason getting the credit he deserves.

We need to be strategic with our trading and FA this off season to fill some key holes (such as another winger and an x factor goal kicking small forward), but every time Taylor has a second round pick, I'm confident he'll nab us a good player. It's a brilliant feeling given our past recruiting woes. 

This off season might be a little trickier given there's less exposed form at TAC level to look at though.

Edited September 14, 20204 yr by A F

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Weideman?

Drafting is an inexact science. Even the best don't nail 100% of their picks and then you have to look at development post drafting as well

How do our picks over the last 6 or 7 years stack up against the rest of the comp. That's where you can start to judge how good Taylor has been. Our drafting prior to him was diabolical so maybe he just looks good in comparison? Or maybe he is hitting above average compared to the rest of the league? I don't know but would be interesting to see some comparisons.

I agree with you and Weideman is a case in point. It's still not possible to call but Sam clearly has the ability so I don't think it will ever be and outright bad call if he's a bust. It seems more a matter of desire and application - and you can't always tell how a 17 y/o will turn out personality-wise when there's still maturing to come.

Taylor expressed some regret in the draft podcast last year about overlooking certain questions he had wished he had asked in the past - and I got the sense he was referring to either Weideman and Petracca - and that demonstrates how both inexact and exhaustive it is: one particular question possibly determining a draft rating.

Anyway - I do believe Taylor has probably performed above average. There are so many factors involved though that I think it's just impossible to make a comparison e.g. where a recruiter's picks land in any given draft pool, directions from coaches and needs-based drafting, and of course post-draft development and a club's fortunes. 

43 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I agree with you and Weideman is a case in point. It's still not possible to call but Sam clearly has the ability so I don't think it will ever be and outright bad call if he's a bust. It seems more a matter of desire and application - and you can't always tell how a 17 y/o will turn out personality-wise when there's still maturing to come.

Taylor expressed some regret in the draft podcast last year about overlooking certain questions he had wished he had asked in the past - and I got the sense he was referring to either Weideman and Petracca - and that demonstrates how both inexact and exhaustive it is: one particular question possibly determining a draft rating.

Anyway - I do believe Taylor has probably performed above average. There are so many factors involved though that I think it's just impossible to make a comparison e.g. where a recruiter's picks land in any given draft pool, directions from coaches and needs-based drafting, and of course post-draft development and a club's fortunes. 

Weids is a perfect example.

One of the best sports doco’s I’ve seen is the “The Brady 6”. It tells the story of how Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback ever to play the game, was overlooked by every team but was eventually taken with the very last pick in the 2000 NFL draft. There are interviews with scouts who discuss the supposed “flaws” in his game. He didn’t rate highly in any of the key metrics, he was too slow, arm not strong enough etc. etc. They admitted however there is nothing scouts can do to measure a man’s heart, his drive, or his determination, qualities that Brady has in spades as he has proven over the last 20 years. Well worth a look for those interested in gaining an insight into the recruitment process and its limitations.

1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

Weids is a perfect example.

One of the best sports doco’s I’ve seen is the “The Brady 6”. It tells the story of how Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback ever to play the game, was overlooked by every team but was eventually taken with the very last pick in the 2000 NFL draft. There are interviews with scouts who discuss the supposed “flaws” in his game. He didn’t rate highly in any of the key metrics, he was too slow, arm not strong enough etc. etc. They admitted however there is nothing scouts can do to measure a man’s heart, his drive, or his determination, qualities that Brady has in spades as he has proven over the last 20 years. Well worth a look for those interested in gaining an insight into the recruitment process and its limitations.

That's a great doco. As a Jets fan I can't bear to watch it again tho ?