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CHANGES: Rd 07 vs Hawthorn

Nasher
in Melbourne Demons

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4 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I agree there are role players in every team but ANB's fundamental football skills are not AFL level and a key to his role, his tackling, is poor.  It's something about #30 - Hoppy, Godders, ANB ...

The problem against Geelong was not preventing them from scoring, it was us converting scoring opportunities.  If we had played some combination of Weid and Bennell along with Kosi we could have won.

I don't have an issue with his tackling, his averages in that area are similar to AVB who you brought up before saying AVB tackles harder, of course he does he's got 6cm and 13kgs on ANB, he should hit harder. At no point am I not saying he doesn't have major limitations, but I'm also not saying his fundamental football skills are not AFL level, that's just rubbish. 

Against Geelong our biggest issue was letting them control the ball, they just chipped it around at will in our backhalf. We didn't make them use it enough so we could get it back off them to create more opportunities, ANB would have made it a lot harder for them to do that than what AVB and Hannan did on the day.

 
6 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I consider myself a moderate rather than complete idiot - but there's something I don't get. So often in the AFL (not just Melbourne) we see long bombs into the forward line which land directly in the arms of a defender, even with even numbers. The forwards are off somewhere leading in different directions and the defender is left to read and play space. Why not coach a forward to play that same role? Like get Lever to fully pretend he's playing intercept defense in our forward line? 

It's a serious question. 

Excellent question. I agree. I also consider myself an entry level idiot not a complete one. 

With 6 forwards if there is such a thing anymore you'd expect 1 of those players roles is to read the football of the boot. Then either make a contest or be there for the crumbs. Often the ball is in the air for an eternity and yet they mark it on the chest. Baffling.

I'm assuming oppo defenders block our forwards or our blokes have already led and are in a different postcode.

 

    • Like 1
    2 minutes ago, DeePressed said:

    Excellent question. I agree. I also consider myself an entry level idiot not a complete one. 

    With 6 forwards if there is such a thing anymore you'd expect 1 of those players roles is to read the football of the boot. Then either make a contest or be there for the crumbs. Often the ball is in the air for an eternity and yet they mark it on the chest. Baffling.

    I'm assuming oppo defenders block our forwards or our blokes have already led and are in a different postcode.

     

    The bolded bit. 

    We have smaller defensive forwards now to shut down the run off half-back, but why not a defensive KPP in the forward-line? At most, it creates a clear one-on-one instead of probably a dozen freebies per match. 

    • Like 1
     
    1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

    My biggest concerns with Hawthorn is if they get their kicking game going and can move around and through us if our pressure isn't on up forward and our backline gets run out of position. 

    Smith on the wing/forward and Scully can really run and create gaps overlaps. No matter who we play up forward the Hawks will take intercept marks, so we have to make sure that they can then only go sideways/backwards/long down the line.
     

    I think the tighter dimensions of the Sydney Showgrounds work in our favour in this compared with the MCG.

    • Like 4
    1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

    At no point am I not saying he doesn't have major limitations, but I'm also not saying his fundamental football skills are not AFL level, that's just rubbish.

    It is not rubbish. There is only one club that would take take ABN and that is the Crows. The reality is ABN has more experience than are reflected in performances. ABN has had years to cement a place in our team and he has never really nailed one down. ABN would not solve any problems for the crows his skills are borderline AFL at best. We could be saying the same about AVB and even Hunt too. The difference with AVB if he was able to string together a few more games his limitations would be more obvious. When he has got a game he adds grunt around the contest but he is fragile and his disposal is ordinary. I doubt any of these guys have shown enough to get a look at another team. They are not much help for us and will not be in a successful Demon team in the future. We need upgrades on all these guys.

    Edited by Mental Demons


    I’d go unchanged this week if TMac gets up from the eye scrape.

    If Hawks get their kicking possession game going, we’re toast. Need to bring the pressure this week to combat this.

    • Like 3
    5 hours ago, old dee said:

     Now this will probably provoke a few but I don't think Cossi is earning his spot. As yet he has done little in a game. Not unexpected he is a kid who went from under 18's to senior football in one jump. Time to rest him IMO. 

    I dont know what your expectations are but he was in our top 5 for pressure acts on the weekend and directly gave goals to Harmes, Fritsch and Bennell. He was our third highest for pressure acts the prior week against Richmond. He is just getting settled in. 

    Edited by big_red_fire_engine

    • Like 9
    19 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

    It is not rubbish. There is only one club that would take take ABN and that is the Crows. The reality is ABN has more experience than are reflected in performances. ABN has had years to cement a place in our team and he has never really nailed one down. ABN would not solve any problems for the crows his skills are borderline AFL at best. We could be saying the same about AVB and even Hunt too. The difference with AVB if he was able to string together a few more games his limitations would be more obvious. When he has got a game he adds grunt around the contest but he is fragile and his disposal is ordinary. I doubt any of these guys have shown enough to get a look at another team. They are not much help for us and will not be in a successful Demon team in the future. We need upgrades on all these guys.

    AVB's tackling was good but his subsequent disposal was more often than not poor. That aside I think he might be okay against the slower hawks in preventing the easy chip out of the forward line.

    We all have nightmares about the first Hawks game in 2018. The one in the finals was more pleasant but remember Gunston kicked 2:4 or similar.

     
    On 7/12/2020 at 10:28 PM, Garbo said:

    Weid out (complete liability when not marking, which happens rarely) Brown or Jackson in

    Jetta out (unfortunately passed it, a first gamer tore him a new one) - Rivers back in

    ??‍♂️

    • Like 1
    2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

    My biggest concerns with Hawthorn is if they get their kicking game going and can move around and through us if our pressure isn't on up forward and our backline gets run out of position. 

    Smith on the wing/forward and Scully can really run and create gaps overlaps. No matter who we play up forward the Hawks will take intercept marks, so we have to make sure that they can then only go sideways/backwards/long down the line.

    I know it didn't work out in the first few weeks of the season but I'd think about Harmes at half back again purely because he has the run to go with Smith/Scully, where as Lockhart doesn't have a big tank and we don't want Salem doing all the hard running. Hibberd asked to do too much two way running isn't pretty either. I'd think about Joel Smith in a different role for the same reason, or even maybe a James Jordon if we want to take a chance.

    In the case of Harmes going back ANB would come in, because if we go with 2 talls, Melksham, Fritsch and Bennell we need to have some defensive pressure around those guys. 

    The club will have GPS numbers on Lockhart and maybe we just rotate him and keep him fresh and it won't be an issue.

    I agree, hopefully they learnt something from the Geelong as I have no doubt the Hawks will try to a keepings off approach 


    1 minute ago, Diamond_Jim said:

    I think he might be okay against the slower hawks in preventing the easy chip out of the forward line.

    ANB has never done that in the past who would you drop out of a winning team to give ANB another go at it? ANB is a running linkman who is a soft tackler and has poor disposal. Most of all, he is not a good reader of the play and is often not where he should be. 

    11 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

    ANB has never done that in the past who would you drop out of a winning team to give ANB another go at it? ANB is a running linkman who is a soft tackler and has poor disposal. Most of all, he is not a good reader of the play and is often not where he should be. 

    ???

    My reference was to AVB... never mentioned ANB

     

    If TMac gets up then I think there may be no changes. If that was the case I would be disappointed.

    I think there are a couple of adjustments that can be made so that we are improving the side and also looking to the future. 

    In defence, while the structure of the three talls looked better, there were problems with the medium/small defenders. Hibberd and Salem were passable but I would like to see more out of Salem. Do we play him a little higher up the ground and look to link through him to the forward half? My two concerns are Jetta and Lockhart. Jetta because he seems to be half a pace off and not reacting quickly enough and Lockhart because he does not look to get much of the ball. if both stay in this week I would have Rivers on the bench to put a bit of pressure on them to perform and to be able to slot him in to either position to have a look at him as a direct comparison. 

    Midfield I do not have any problems with and I think the moves made last week during the game may give Goodwin the confidence to be more proactive with his match day coaching. Petracca, Viney, Oliver, Harmes and Brayshaw as the inside rotations are excellent. Langdon's game was excellent last week. If we could stick a clone of him on the other wing I would be happy. As we cannot do that ( I am sure the AFL has a rule about that) I would entertain the possibility of Melksham having the run there. He needs to get a bit of confidence back and it would help if he got a bit more of the ball.

    In the forwards I would have Wiedeman playing the role he did last week. he looked to be playing a bit deeper than Tmac was playing and it looked to work for him. Another tall in Tmac required. If his eye is not right then Brown for mine as he might just give Wiedeman a bit more matue support. Fritsch., Bennell, Hannan and Pickett to all fill their roles.

    VdB, Jones and Tomlinson all to be considered if matchups required or if there is a coach's requirement for them.

    • Love 1
    32 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

    ANB has never done that in the past who would you drop out of a winning team to give ANB another go at it? ANB is a running linkman who is a soft tackler and has poor disposal. Most of all, he is not a good reader of the play and is often not where he should be. 

    ANB was the leader in the team for pressure acts, to be able to do this, you need to be able to read the play. Note he was also doing at least 1 tackle a game, so not soft

    The one good thing at the moment is that we have a full healthy list to pick from

    Up to ANB, like Weideman, Hibberd and Jetta before him, to get back into the team

    1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

    I’d go unchanged this week if TMac gets up from the eye scrape.

    If Hawks get their kicking possession game going, we’re toast. Need to bring the pressure this week to combat this.

    They don't have the kicking ability to play this game any longer.

    Their players in the defensive half with the exception of Sicily are all average to poor kicks.

    They don't have any Gibsons or Birchalls and instead have Frosts and Frawleys

    They will try possession but if we bring what we did last week it will fall apart pretty easily.

    • Like 2

    13 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

    ANB was the leader in the team for pressure acts, to be able to do this, you need to be able to read the play. Note he was also doing at least 1 tackle a game, so not soft

    When was ANB a leader of pressure acts? What does it even mean? Did we win those games with his pressure acts? One soft tackle a game is nothing to boast about and as I said the only other team he would get a run in is more of a basket case than us. No trade value = not much to offer. Who would you drop for him out of a winning side?The only reason to play ABN is no other choice, he is only depth.

    On 7/12/2020 at 10:11 AM, jumbo returns said:

    But, he has no form and he's not up to AFL standard

    Smith has an upside

    I'm confused, I thought your first sentence was about Smith?

    • Haha 2
    50 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

    My reference was to AVB... never mentioned ANB

    My mistake , others were talking about ANB. I would not be dropping anybody from last weeks team. I think we will win comfortably V Hawks. They are playing like crap.

    • Like 1
    6 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

    That's true but since then they've been horrible and Bennell and Kosi are a massive upgrade on them.  They've only played one game together so far.  I'm looking forward to Krakouer brothers-style magic coming up.

    Yes it will be fascinating to see whether we are on a roll.

    I reckon Spargo will be okay. He's still young. Not convinced ABN will clean up his disposal, but I hope he proves me wrong.


    For me no changes. If Tmac doesn’t come up we should bring in Brown. Maybe send a player to Sicily. Thinking Melksham.  Not sure if he’s done shut down roles but I think someone needs to go to him. Do we have anyone that has played that role before?

    2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

    When was ANB a leader of pressure acts? What does it even mean? Did we win those games with his pressure acts? One soft tackle a game is nothing to boast about and as I said the only other team he would get a run in is more of a basket case than us. No trade value = not much to offer. Who would you drop for him out of a winning side?The only reason to play ABN is no other choice, he is only depth.

    If you must try and debate, please check your facts, it is common knowledge , even on here, the reason he kept his place in the team was  due to his 2 way running and pressure acts

    If you don't know how important pressure acts are in modern footy, I suggest you do a bit of research

    It was at least a tackle a game

    At the moment we have gone with a couple of different looks in the fwds

    I also didn't say anything about dropping anybody, I said he will have to earn his spot back

    His name is also Alex Neal Bullen

    Not Australian Business Number

    I personally want no change to try and get a bit of consistency, but maybe Jones has done enough to force a change

    14 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

    it is common knowledge , even on here, the reason he kept his place in the team was  due to his 2 way running and pressure acts

    I don't give a stuff about what your paternal common knowledge is. One tackle a game is not a performance game. it does not score or win games, If he was better at it he would have a much more solid place in the team anyway. That has never happened. He only got a game because of his endurance but it does not mean he was able to use it to best advantage. His disposal sucks. The reality was that he was better at running than most of the list. It does not mean he was good at it. I suspect he would have had a much shorter career at any other club. It is pretty lame, to try and make a point about a typo, get a life.  

     
    On 7/12/2020 at 10:28 PM, Garbo said:

    Weid out (complete liability when not marking, which happens rarely) Brown or Jackson in

    Jetta out (unfortunately passed it, a first gamer tore him a new one) - Rivers back in

    I can imagine Donald Trump reading this aloud. 

    Edited by Mel Bourne

    • Like 1
    47 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

    I don't give a stuff about what your paternal common knowledge is. One tackle a game is not a performance game. it does not score or win games, If he was better at it he would have a much more solid place in the team anyway. That has never happened. He only got a game because of his endurance but it does not mean he was able to use it to best advantage. His disposal sucks. The reality was that he was better at running than most of the list. It does not mean he was good at it. I suspect he would have had a much shorter career at any other club. It is pretty lame, to try and make a point about a typo, get a life.  

    A couple of stats to help you a bit

    ANB tackles per game career average 4.05

    Tackles in 2018 when we made the prelim 118

    Averages 5 contested possession a game, which is on par with Mitch Hannan and Jake Melksham

    At the moment other players are preferred for his role,

    Upto him to get back in the team

     


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