What has happened to Clayton Oliver?

[Lucifers Hero 40,365]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

While I understand where you are coming from I think this is a bit harsh and he has a long way to fall before realising this risk. 

Oliver is super damaging in a less overt way. His extraction and creative, fast hands, means that he sets up a lot of past that wouldn't have happened otherwise.  While Trac bursts through and kicks long,  Oliver did under and squeezes out to advantage. To become "just an accumulator" I think he need to lose that ability and be more loose, uneventful outside touches.

He is still one of the best and most creative extractors in the game, and is probably playing more well rounded footy than in the years he won the bnfs.

He is averaging 25 disposals this year (4th in the comp), equal to 31.25 in full length quarters (he has a higher kick to handball ratio than Petracca this year too) and 5th in ave contested possessions. He is 7th in ave clearances (3rd in centre clearances) and 25th for tackles (only half a tackle off being 15th). His turnovers are up by one per game (2 when factoring in shortened game time) which is sight concern but it is also a symptom of kicking more, which we've asked of him. 

On those numbers he should right in the frame for AA discussion. Unfortunately he gets marked very hard by umpires and media for some reason (vs their favourites).

Firstly,  I didn't say 'just an' accumulator.   Significant little words to have added.   And there was no intent to diminish his performances.

He is elite at the things you noted but imv doesn't get full value for his work:  He is a great extractor and I'm sure he will never lose that ability but he may 'plateau' if he doesn't improve key elements of his game eg turnovers, two-way running and lack of goal kicking/goal assists/ scoring chains. 

I'm not quite as enamoured with the stats quoted.  In a sense that is what an accumulator is - high possessions/disposals.  Tom Mitchell won a Brownlow as an 'accumulator'; high stats etc but he isn't a consistently damaging player.  Lachie Neale may win a brownlow as a similar type of player.   Andrew Gaff hasn't won a brownlow but could be considered a similar type.  So Oliver is in good company.

For mine it isn't the 'numbers' that are the main ingredient for 'AA'.   There are many very good midfielders so Oliver may not be in the conversation.  Petracca probably will be.

Not sure why he gets marked hard by umpires as it should be a game by game assessment.. 

With the media, they probably look at his wider body of work and see his weakness and mark him too harshly for them.  And I think the playing 'hollywood football' label and 'playing for votes' comment they put on him and Brayshaw last year have stuck.

As I said, I think he is a club champion and will be an AFL star.   He is young and if he keeps improving he can be an out and out superstar!

Edited July 22, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[rjay 25,094]

17 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Oliver runs the risk of becoming an 'accumulator' that doesn't really hurt the opposition and isn't getting the best value from his hard work in getting the ball.  He has some weaknesses to work on.

Petracca is influencing game results and hurting the opposition in the process be it turnovers, ball movement or scoring chains/involvements.  He is rapidly becoming the complete package.  I can't see any real weaknesses.

 

 

14 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Petracca is a gun the best player in the comp ATM. Clarry has been ok he still has a lot of improvement in him starting off with his kicking.

 

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

He is elite at the things you noted but imv doesn't get full value for his work:  He is a great extractor and I'm sure he will never lose that ability but he may 'plateau' if he doesn't improve key elements of his game eg turnovers, two-way running and lack of goal kicking/goal assists/ scoring chains. 

For mine it isn't the 'numbers' that are the main ingredient for 'AA'.   There are many very good midfielders so Oliver may not be in the conversation.  Petracca probably will be.

 

Petracca has been good but there's a lot of hype on one great game...

Remember the GC game when he couldn't hit a target to save himself.

I get it and was one of the few that recognised his improvement last year when others thought him almost a bust.

...but

Clayton is not only an accumulator or an extractor, we forget quickly his sublime handball skills that set up players down the ground.

It's his vision and reaction time that puts him a long way above those others mentioned on "On the Reactionary Couch" the other night.

He's just a much better footballer than the other "extractors" and still developing his craft...when you watch the game closely you can see he's working on when to kick and when to handball at the moment. The cogs are ticking and it's not yet instinctive...once he sorts this out watch him dominate games in the very near future.

 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

59 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

 

Petracca has been good but there's a lot of hype on one great game...

Remember the GC game when he couldn't hit a target to save himself.

I get it and was one of the few that recognised his improvement last year when others thought him almost a bust.

...but

Clayton is not only an accumulator or an extractor, we forget quickly his sublime handball skills that set up players down the ground.

It's his vision and reaction time that puts him a long way above those others mentioned on "On the Reactionary Couch" the other night.

He's just a much better footballer than the other "extractors" and still developing his craft...when you watch the game closely you can see he's working on when to kick and when to handball at the moment. The cogs are ticking and it's not yet instinctive...once he sorts this out watch him dominate games in the very near future.

 

The game he got 7 coaches votes in?

If you look at the coaches votes leaderboard and take into account we have missed a game, it's not hard to see why there is hype.

[rjay 25,094]

5 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

The game he got 7 coaches votes in?

If you look at the coaches votes leaderboard and take into account we have missed a game, it's not hard to see why there is hype.

Yep, but he's not the best player in the game at the moment...

That statement by Crawf is the sort of thing Ross Lyon used to say to put an opponent off their game.

Remember Dale Thomas?

Let Trac put together a body of work before we go in to total meltdown...

He's looking good though...

So is Clayton, how lucky are we?

[Watts the matter 1,235]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

Yep, but he's not the best player in the game at the moment...

That statement by Crawf is the sort of thing Ross Lyon used to say to put an opponent off their game.

Remember Dale Thomas?

Let Trac put together a body of work before we go in to total meltdown...

He's looking good though...

So is Clayton, how lucky are we?

I'll be interested to see how they go against Neale this week. I think he has been the best performed player this year with Trac probably just behind. 

 

[rjay 25,094]

8 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I'll be interested to see how they go against Neale this week. I think he has been the best performed player this year with Trac probably just behind. 

 

Me too...I think we could run Viney with him. Initially I thought Harmes on a hard tag and maybe that's still an option but a soft tag with Viney is also a consideration.

[Lucifers Hero 40,365]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Petracca has been good but there's a lot of hype on one great game...

Remember the GC game when he couldn't hit a target to save himself.

I get it and was one of the few that recognised his improvement last year when others thought him almost a bust.

...but

Clayton is not only an accumulator or an extractor, we forget quickly his sublime handball skills that set up players down the ground.

It's his vision and reaction time that puts him a long way above those others mentioned on "On the Reactionary Couch" the other night.

He's just a much better footballer than the other "extractors" and still developing his craft...when you watch the game closely you can see he's working on when to kick and when to handball at the moment. The cogs are ticking and it's not yet instinctive...once he sorts this out watch him dominate games in the very near future.

I'm not trying to put Oliver down, quite the opposite.  Simply trying to say he has improvements to make (which I identified) to extract max value for the hard work he does, which I think is what you and others who have commented on my posts are saying but saying it in different ways.

Yes, if Oliver overcomes his weaknesses he will be better than the other "extractors" I mentioned:  Mitchell, Neale, Gaff, will outperform them and can be an out and out superstar.  Yes, he is working on them.  I didn't see OTC the other night so can't comment on who they compared Oliver to.

And like you, I've thought Petracca had a very good, consistent 2019 where he was pretty much the lone ranger in the forward line, where it was more like aerial ping pong.  Media will hype the hype but my assessment isn't on the back of one game.  It is on th last 18 months and this year he has upped his game several levels. 

For the third (and last time) I think Oliver is a club champion and will be an AFL star. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[kallangurdemon 551]

21 minutes ago, rjay said:

Me too...I think we could run Viney with him. Initially I thought Harmes on a hard tag and maybe that's still an option but a soft tag with Viney is also a consideration.

i think Harmes may tag Zorko because he has been successful in the past  in that role .Maybe no tag on Neale and punt on Maxs ruck dominance .

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

27 minutes ago, rjay said:

Me too...I think we could run Viney with him. Initially I thought Harmes on a hard tag and maybe that's still an option but a soft tag with Viney is also a consideration.

I'd put Petracca on Neale and back him to do more damage. Neale won't be able to go with petracca in the air around the ground. 

love a good head to head

[one_demon 826]

If he could add effective kicking do his game how would be far more damaging.  I think it will happen in time.

[Adam The God 30,423]

20 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Petracca may be a year older but he missed his first season rehabbing from an ACL so they have played the same no of games: CP 85/CO 88.  In fact iirc Oliver debuted before Petracca.  Petracca debuted in round six 2016.  Oliver in round 1 of that year.

Other than age/games it is difficult to compare as they have had different roles.  Petracca was our leading goal kicker last year in a team with poor fwd connection and the ball ping-ponged its way in then out of the fwd line.  Oliver was Oliver doing all the great work in the middle.

Into the future:

Oliver runs the risk of becoming an 'accumulator' that doesn't really hurt the opposition and isn't getting the best value from his hard work in getting the ball.  He has some weaknesses to work on.

Petracca is influencing game results and hurting the opposition in the process be it turnovers, ball movement or scoring chains/involvements.  He is rapidly becoming the complete package.  I can't see any real weaknesses.

They'll both be mfc champions and AFL stars but I have a feeling Petracca will outshine Oliver.  He is just getting going.  Not sure if Oliver is starting to plateau, admittedly at a very high level.

Will totally enjoy watching them both create havoc on the G in the red and blue!

The Petracca / Oliver comparison reminds me a bit of how Sam Mitchell would constantly fly under the radar in his early career, because Buddy Franklin would take the spotlight. Franklin is the flashier player, but Mitchell was a genius. Oliver's kicking isn't as solid at this stage, but Mitchell often kicked short, which meant his DE appeared to be much better. 

Absolutely, Clarry has some things to work on, but I'd argue Clarry and Trac both need to work on their defensive games. 

You'll always remember Trac in a game because the way he plays is with flair. He also cost us two goals in a row against Hawthorn because his defensive work didn't cut it, so there's definitely improvement left in both of their games and neither are even mid 20s yet, so there is plenty of time to work on their game.

It's wonderful we have them both in the same team at once with one of the most dominant rucks in recent memory.

[Lucifers Hero 40,365]

If we were to run with/tag someone for mine, it would be Zorko rather than Neale. 

Zorko usually has less possessions but is far more damaging around the ground and on the scoreboard.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Adam The God 30,423]

5 hours ago, deanox said:

While I understand where you are coming from I think this is a bit harsh and he has a long way to fall before realising this risk. 

Oliver is super damaging in a less overt way. His extraction and creative, fast hands, means that he sets up a lot of past that wouldn't have happened otherwise.  While Trac bursts through and kicks long,  Oliver did under and squeezes out to advantage. To become "just an accumulator" I think he need to lose that ability and be more loose, uneventful outside touches.

He is still one of the best and most creative extractors in the game, and is probably playing more well rounded footy than in the years he won the bnfs.

He is averaging 25 disposals this year (4th in the comp), equal to 31.25 in full length quarters (he has a higher kick to handball ratio than Petracca this year too) and 5th in ave contested possessions. He is 7th in ave clearances (3rd in centre clearances) and 25th for tackles (only half a tackle off being 15th). His turnovers are up by one per game (2 when factoring in shortened game time) which is sight concern but it is also a symptom of kicking more, which we've asked of him. 

On those numbers he should right in the frame for AA discussion. Unfortunately he gets marked very hard by umpires and media for some reason (vs their favourites).

 

Great post. This was the same with Sam Mitchell. 

[Adam The God 30,423]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Firstly,  I didn't say 'just an' accumulator.   Significant little words to have added.   And there was no intent to diminish his performances.

He is elite at the things you noted but imv doesn't get full value for his work:  He is a great extractor and I'm sure he will never lose that ability but he may 'plateau' if he doesn't improve key elements of his game eg turnovers, two-way running and lack of goal kicking/goal assists/ scoring chains. 

I'm not quite as enamoured with the stats quoted.  In a sense that is what an accumulator is - high possessions/disposals.  Tom Mitchell won a Brownlow as an 'accumulator'; high stats etc but he isn't a consistently damaging player.  Lachie Neale may win a brownlow as a similar type of player.   Andrew Gaff hasn't won a brownlow but could be considered a similar type.  So Oliver is in good company.

For mine it isn't the 'numbers' that are the main ingredient for 'AA'.   There are many very good midfielders so Oliver may not be in the conversation.  Petracca probably will be.

Not sure why he gets marked hard by umpires as it should be a game by game assessment.. 

With the media, they probably look at his wider body of work and see his weakness and mark him too harshly for them.  And I think the playing 'hollywood football' label and 'playing for votes' comment they put on him and Brayshaw last year have stuck.

As I said, I think he is a club champion and will be an AFL star.   He is young and if he keeps improving he can be an out and out superstar!

We're usually on the same page mate, but I just cannot agree with this bit, if I've understood it correctly. Andrew Gaff is in the same company as Oliver? 

One is a legitimate contested bull, the other is a hard running accumulating outside mid. They're completely different players. 

Oliver is an A grader, no question for me, but he could be an A++ grader if he can become more damaging with his disposal by foot. That bit I agree with, but his handballing more often than not is incredibly damaging IMO.

If Clarry had managed to get to where he is now at the age of 28 or 29, I think we'd say he was an A grade star. The fact that he's only 23 and has been doing what he does now (and winning AA rep and two BnFs) for a few years, shows how big his potential is. What's scary for opposition's is he's still a few years off his best. So our coaches work on getting him to balance his handball game with his kicking game in 2019 and now in 2020, it's about being more damaging with his disposals by foot. 

The fact you don't rate him as an AFL star at this point, I think, could be as a result of the level he has set for himself pretty much from his first game against GWS off limited minutes, where he didn't look at all out of place against an A grade midfield. 

[Adam The God 30,423]

2 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

I'll be interested to see how they go against Neale this week. I think he has been the best performed player this year with Trac probably just behind. 

I'm genuinely intrigued to see how Trac goes in the remaining games this year. With the insane hype around him, opposition sides will pay more attention to him, as they have done with Oliver for many years. Can Trac keep his game going, whilst being targeted? 

As for match ups this week, I agree with @Lucifer's Hero. I'd have Harmes or Viney tag Zorko and go Petracca and Oliver, head to head with Neale. I'd also be giving Neale a bit of physical attention around all the stoppages. What a [censored] I am.

[Deespicable 2,886]

5 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

Petracca has been good but there's a lot of hype on one great game...

Remember the GC game when he couldn't hit a target to save himself.

I get it and was one of the few that recognised his improvement last year when others thought him almost a bust.

...but

Clayton is not only an accumulator or an extractor, we forget quickly his sublime handball skills that set up players down the ground.

It's his vision and reaction time that puts him a long way above those others mentioned on "On the Reactionary Couch" the other night.

He's just a much better footballer than the other "extractors" and still developing his craft...when you watch the game closely you can see he's working on when to kick and when to handball at the moment. The cogs are ticking and it's not yet instinctive...once he sorts this out watch him dominate games in the very near future.

 

Both RJay and AF are quick to point out that Oliver is a great handballer, RJay uses the word 'sublime' and AF says his handballing is 'incredibly damaging,' but I disagree entirely.

A sublime handball is like the one Bennell did under pressure to Hannan last week and is going backwards to Smith as Oliver did three weeks ago incredibly damaging to anyone but our side? And what has been happening is that way too often is the panic handball he has used to Gawn or to Viney to avoid the tackle. He still did it twice last week, but there were so many more positives to his game.

Oliver is a great exponent of the quick give, which often can break up the swarming numbers around the ball and give a teammate a chance to go forward. And Oliver certainly is not a woos. He goes hard at it.

But what has infuriated me is that for the past four years no one seemed to take him to task for taking the safer, easier sideways or backwards release option to a player in no better position than he was. That was until the media two weeks ago turned on our club (we were 1-3 after all) and looked at our stuttering game plan. I can guarantee you that Goody and Ben Mathews sat down with Oliver after the Tigers game and went over where he was going wrong.

It is only two weeks since his nadir, but already you can see him trying to look forward with his options. He's still a bit panicky, but I suspect that eventually he will become the genuine linebreaking A grader that we have all been waiting for.

I've only met him once a few years back, but I suspect he still doubts his abilities a bit. He said to me back then that he was too slow, yet even back then I reckon he was among our top five players for speed. He is genuinely quick, not like Jayden Hunt, but more like Chris Judd. Yet up until the past two weeks he wasn't willing to use possibly his biggest asset because the safer, easier option was to give it off.

I also reckon he is a good kick, even though he has made mention of his own poor kicking in interviews recently. As we saw in the Yarra comp, he can nail a torp and a drop punt. He still leans back a bit and his ball drop is sometimes from too high in his rush, but as with Trac, the more times he tries to make that long or clever play, the more he'll  find his target. And he has great peripheral vision, so he will find his target more often than not once he has the confidence to use his foot skills.

It is very unusual that a player who has won two best-and-fairests is being talked about as flawed, but I reckon in the past two weeks he's finally taking on the game (his only real flaw anyway) and whilst we may not see him at his best for a month or two yet as he adjusts to this new role, the base is now being laid. 

And with Trac more likely to be tagged than him, he will probably enjoy the extra freedom.

As with our side, we are seeing a growth in Oliver taking place at the moment that will guarantee we are a formidable side in years to come. 

[binman 43,822]

6 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

Petracca has been good but there's a lot of hype on one great game...

Remember the GC game when he couldn't hit a target to save himself.

I get it and was one of the few that recognised his improvement last year when others thought him almost a bust.

...but

Clayton is not only an accumulator or an extractor, we forget quickly his sublime handball skills that set up players down the ground.

It's his vision and reaction time that puts him a long way above those others mentioned on "On the Reactionary Couch" the other night.

He's just a much better footballer than the other "extractors" and still developing his craft...when you watch the game closely you can see he's working on when to kick and when to handball at the moment. The cogs are ticking and it's not yet instinctive...once he sorts this out watch him dominate games in the very near future.

 

Good post Rjay. Agree with all the points made.

The last para is interesting. I think the manic, gun and run style we played in his frts couple of years would not have helped him develop a good balance between handball and kicking, with its emphasis on quick handballs/throws. We are looking to play a bit more tempo footy which i think helps him.

Totally agree he has got more upside, which is actually pretty rare for  mids at his age, even the really god ones. By his age and stage most (bit not all - Neale has gone up a level for example) have just about hit their ceiling, olie wines for example.

I'm probably guilty of getting ahead of myself with Tracc after his game last week. That said that game is now his benchmark. 

But its funny you mention the Suns game. He actually had a pretty good game but yes his kicking was poor. But the big take away for me - and the reason i am so excited about Traccs future - is when it mattered he stood up, took all the responsibility and kicked a clutch, game winning  goal from outside 50. He is a game winner who can change the course of a match through sheer force of will. 

I'd love to see Oliver become a game winner too, and he has the potential to. 

What was really awesome about traccs goal was that it was Oliver who set it up. After lowering his eyes, assessing the options and taking the smart (but tricky) option. It was like seeing the future!

[Adam The God 30,423]

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Both RJay and AF are quick to point out that Oliver is a great handballer, RJay uses the word 'sublime' and AF says his handballing is 'incredibly damaging,' but I disagree entirely.

A sublime handball is like the one Bennell did under pressure to Hannan last week and is going backwards to Smith as Oliver did three weeks ago incredibly damaging to anyone but our side? And what has been happening is that way too often is the panic handball he has used to Gawn or to Viney to avoid the tackle. He still did it twice last week, but there were so many more positives to his game.

Oliver is a great exponent of the quick give, which often can break up the swarming numbers around the ball and give a teammate a chance to go forward. And Oliver certainly is not a woos. He goes hard at it.

But what has infuriated me is that for the past four years no one seemed to take him to task for taking the safer, easier sideways or backwards release option to a player in no better position than he was. That was until the media two weeks ago turned on our club (we were 1-3 after all) and looked at our stuttering game plan. I can guarantee you that Goody and Ben Mathews sat down with Oliver after the Tigers game and went over where he was going wrong.

It is only two weeks since his nadir, but already you can see him trying to look forward with his options. He's still a bit panicky, but I suspect that eventually he will become the genuine linebreaking A grader that we have all been waiting for.

I've only met him once a few years back, but I suspect he still doubts his abilities a bit. He said to me back then that he was too slow, yet even back then I reckon he was among our top five players for speed. He is genuinely quick, not like Jayden Hunt, but more like Chris Judd. Yet up until the past two weeks he wasn't willing to use possibly his biggest asset because the safer, easier option was to give it off.

I also reckon he is a good kick, even though he has made mention of his own poor kicking in interviews recently. As we saw in the Yarra comp, he can nail a torp and a drop punt. He still leans back a bit and his ball drop is sometimes from too high in his rush, but as with Trac, the more times he tries to make that long or clever play, the more he'll  find his target. And he has great peripheral vision, so he will find his target more often than not once he has the confidence to use his foot skills.

It is very unusual that a player who has won two best-and-fairests is being talked about as flawed, but I reckon in the past two weeks he's finally taking on the game (his only real flaw anyway) and whilst we may not see him at his best for a month or two yet as he adjusts to this new role, the base is now being laid. 

And with Trac more likely to be tagged than him, he will probably enjoy the extra freedom.

As with our side, we are seeing a growth in Oliver taking place at the moment that will guarantee we are a formidable side in years to come. 

Agree with much of this post mate. 

The thing I will continue to debate is Oliver not being a damaging handballer. You cite Bennell's handball as being damaging, which I agree, was damaging, but contextually completely different to many of Clarry's handballs. The majority of which are contested possessions in stoppage situations, not in space by himself in the forwardline as Harley's was.

Nothing against Harley's brilliant handball, but I still disagree with the notion that Oliver's handballs don't hurt the opposition. Yes, sometimes he'll handball to a Gawn standing still (see the Hawthorn game), but the majority of the time, his handballs release team mates into space and help us win clearance. I think this part of his game is being hyperbolised.

As you say, the area of his game that can get better is his kicking game. And I completely agree with you on his kicking. I think he's a very good and creative kick. His draft kicking test results speak for themselves.

I also like the comparison to Judd's pace, in that it's explosive from clearances, but not as quick in other situations though IMO, unlike Judd, who was always lightening.

I think many of us are acknowledging Clarry's elite traits, I'm just not convinced what he actually does brilliantly is being recognised. Not that this matters really, as we're just supporters over-dissecting a player's game.

I agree though that I think Clarry's development across 2019 and 2020 will put him and us in very good stead moving forward.

Edited July 23, 2020 by A F

[deanox 9,989]

14 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Firstly,  I didn't say 'just an' accumulator.   Significant little words to have added.   And there was no intent to diminish his performances.

He is elite at the things you noted but imv doesn't get full value for his work:  He is a great extractor and I'm sure he will never lose that ability but he may 'plateau' if he doesn't improve key elements of his game eg turnovers, two-way running and lack of goal kicking/goal assists/ scoring chains. 

I'm not quite as enamoured with the stats quoted.  In a sense that is what an accumulator is - high possessions/disposals.  Tom Mitchell won a Brownlow as an 'accumulator'; high stats etc but he isn't a consistently damaging player.  Lachie Neale may win a brownlow as a similar type of player.   Andrew Gaff hasn't won a brownlow but could be considered a similar type.  So Oliver is in good company.

For mine it isn't the 'numbers' that are the main ingredient for 'AA'.   There are many very good midfielders so Oliver may not be in the conversation.  Petracca probably will be.

Not sure why he gets marked hard by umpires as it should be a game by game assessment.. 

With the media, they probably look at his wider body of work and see his weakness and mark him too harshly for them.  And I think the playing 'hollywood football' label and 'playing for votes' comment they put on him and Brayshaw last year have stuck.

As I said, I think he is a club champion and will be an AFL star.   He is young and if he keeps improving he can be an out and out superstar!

Sorry, the quote marks were me putting emphasise on the idea of "just an accumulator" not meaning to only that was your words.

I think my post was in two halves: the first responding to the accumulator discussion, and stating that I beliebr be is much more creative and damaging than that, the second discussing his stats with respect to the claims that he gone backwards. I think we just set high standards for him. 

[KingDingAling 3,758]

One of the best games I have seen from Oliver was last weekend. Finally he lowered his eyes and started hitting targets, held onto the footy and taken blokes on - which freed up the next link, which helped us with our spread. Someone clearly got in his ear, he can be so much better - more effective - than he has been. Oliver is highly rated but needs to ignore the outside hype and just focus on how he can improve his game to make us better. Oliver's improvement last weekend was real shining light for us. Viney has shown over the years how he can adapt and shift his game to fit the occasion, Brayshaw also has (he is just out of form and needs to adjust again), Petracca is an improving type, and now Oliver is shifting his game to less wasteful, and more effective. Really good signs for our club. I think we could go close this year. Next 5 years we are in a window. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by KingDingAling

[D4Life 2,547]

16 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

One of the best games I have seen from Oliver was last weekend. Finally he lowered his eyes and started hitting targets, held onto the footy and taken blokes on - which freed up the next link, which helped us with our spread. Someone clearly got in his ear, he can be so much better - more effective - than he has been. Oliver is highly rated but needs to ignore the outside hype and just focus on how he can improve his game to make us better. Oliver's improvement last weekend was real shining light for us. Viney has shown over the years how he can adapt and shift his game to fit the occasion, Brayshaw also has (he is just out of form and needs to adjust again), Petracca is an improving type, and now Oliver is shifting his game to less wasteful, and more effective. Really good signs for our club. I think we could go close this year. Next 5 years we are in a window. 

Oliver, Petracca, a fit Viney, Add Max, with Brayshaw, Harmes and Jackson as support, the next five years is our time. Plus a bit of luck this year, Petracca and co. build on the belief built from last week, just a slight improvement needed and we will be electric! Add in our improved fitness and run, we might surprise in 2020!

We still haven’t played the bottom four teams!

Go Demons!

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

18 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

One of the best games I have seen from Oliver was last weekend. Finally he lowered his eyes and started hitting targets, held onto the footy and taken blokes on - which freed up the next link, which helped us with our spread. Someone clearly got in his ear, he can be so much better - more effective - than he has been. Oliver is highly rated but needs to ignore the outside hype and just focus on how he can improve his game to make us better. Oliver's improvement last weekend was real shining light for us. Viney has shown over the years how he can adapt and shift his game to fit the occasion, Brayshaw also has (he is just out of form and needs to adjust again), Petracca is an improving type, and now Oliver is shifting his game to less wasteful, and more effective. Really good signs for our club. I think we could go close this year. Next 5 years we are in a window. 

I was thinking the same thing... then my head went to 'Just wait til Gawn, Trac, Weid and OMac' go down with long term injuries... how [censored] sad is that  

[Stevienic23 1,183]

I think Clarry and for that matter Viney and anyone else at the stoppage are going to be beneficiaries of Tracs form. Tracs going to be drawing multiple players and Gawn is good enough to put it where ever he wants. They'll all get that extra bit of space or that extra second to make a decision - those rushed disposals and clearances hopefully will be a thing of the past. I reckon Clarry can go to another level again.

Would love for him to play a bit more time forward for a bit of extra hurt factor. I reckon he played forward when Jacobs from North was going alright on him(a couple of years ago) and he kicked 2 in a quarter on him. He does have this skill up his sleeve!

[Billy 2,544]

On 7/5/2020 at 5:53 PM, Elegt said:

Lazy. One way runner. Needs a huge kick up the bum. Should be dropped 

Can’t believe how some of our supporters have jumped on the media bandwagon 

Clayton Oliver deserves a bit of credit for the amazing early years in his career & elite numbers this year, but no we get comments like this.

Wheres the criticism on Patrick Cripps he’s been very underwhelming in 2020

Oh that’s right he’s the AFL poster boy

[Elegt 872]

Get stuffed clayton. King of junk touches