4 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

His inability to hit a target by foot is a massive reason we're struggling. Massive, massive problem.

We're not going to drop him, not after one bad game, so like the majority of our players, our future depends on him working hard to improve his mistakes.

I think he might be the sort of guy who needs the truth from someone he respects. His disposal is a massive defect currently but he also gets a lot of balls without much choice but to quickly get rid of it. Need an expert to fix that one.  Its like his reflexes get him to a lot of balls others would not but it puts him under pressure. Maybe the game has changed but we need an old fashioned rover to Max. Maybe kozzie as he matures.

I’m not off him like some in this thread, but he has to take more time and responsibility with his possessions. He is unbelievable at getting the ball in tight, but too often he just dishes it off without thought or throws it in the boot.

Wish he would slow down a second. He might get tackled every now and then, leading to a ball up or even the odd free kick, but more often than not, the game would open for him more than he thinks and he can be more dangerous.

16 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Of course hes talented, but he is careless, undisciplined.

He has to be dropped to shake him up,   Or he has to be given a job to do,  chasing an opposition forward around, to learn to be accountable.

I cannot believe you guys.... drop Clayton Oliver???? Never in this LIFETIME... [censored] you blokes have lost the plot!!

Accountability?? Ok lets run through our list of "Unaccountables" shall we Oh and lets not forget he is a dual B&F and all Australian

I'd drop Max on his showing today before Clayton Oliver!!! 

Viney gone, Vaanders gone Brayshaw, gone and a few more others Tomlinson, Lever, Langdon all POOR

Garbage 

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by picket fence

Needs Clarkson or Fagan to sort him out.

And the OP saying he is lazy is actually offensive to someone who is cracking in more than just about anyone out there. He has some things he needs to, and can, improve on, but he’s not lazy, that’s a [censored] call.

1 minute ago, Forest Demon said:

I’m not off him like some in this thread, but he has to take more time and responsibility with his possessions. He is unbelievable at getting the ball in tight, but too often he just dishes it off without thought or throws it in the boot.

Wish he would slow down a second. He might get tackled every now and then, leading to a ball up or even the odd free kick, but more often than not, the game would open for him more than he thinks and he can be more dangerous.

The frustrating thing for everyone is that this has been going on for two years and there's been no improvement with it. You don't even seen him trying to do it, he just wants to play hot potato.

I'm not necessarily putting it down to him being lazy and not really close enough to him to know if he's big headed, but his form and disposal option selection at the moment is absolute rubbish.  Is not creating clearances, just creating team turnovers and having him in the side is stopping us from getting the ball moving to the outside.

Needs to wear a collar that gives him an electric shock every time he handpasses less than 2m to a team mate under pressure or just slams it on his boot mongrel pun style randomly to no one.

I wouldn't be against dropping him, sending Harmes back into the guts full time and bringing in Jordan or Tom Sparrow at this point, because I actually feel like Oliver is part of what is holding us back from playing a more free flowing brand of footy right now.

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

I cannot believe you guys.... drop Clayton Oliver???? Never in this LIFETIME... [censored] you blokes have lost the plot!!

Accountable Ok lets run through our list of "Unaccountables" shall we Oh and lets not forget he is a dual B&F and all Australian

I'd drop Max on his showing today before Clayton Oliver!!! 

Viney gone, Vaanders gone Brayshaw, gone and a few more others

Garbage 

We aren't talking in this thread about other players,  this is solely on Oli.

And he needs to be saved from himself. Before he goes right off the rails.

 

Everyone needs some discipline or self-disciplne,  and Oli  has had last 2 years to sort out his disposals.   Including handball to kick rations,  and his accuracy.

He hasn't.!

To be fair to Oliver, the opposition put lots of work into him, and he hasn't worked through that. He is not soft, he rides alot of physical pressure, and I saw him running. What I don't see anymore is real connection between him Viney and Brayshaw, just a few times a game, this was his best card trick, releasing a player into space, doesn't happen anymore. Our coach needs to work this out pronto. 

6 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

, he just wants to play hot potato.

Agreed.

There are times when moving the ball on quickly is important and really helps make the play, but just getting it on quickly is quite different to the hot potato effect of just moving it to someone else to make it there problem or put them under more pressure than you were and this seems to be Oliver's game right at the moment.

When him and the team are on song, those quick fire hand passes are going to team mates streaming past into space on the outside.

Ridiculous negativity around this kid. Not playing at this best but is still worthy of a spot in front of at least 18 others at the moment.

I see him in the backline all the time mopping up so he clearly runs both ways. He’s not a tagger and is tasked with winning the ball in which he’s still one of the best in the comp at it.

As a 20 year old he was a star and All Australian and since then he gets a hell of a lot more attention from the opposition then anyone else in the team.

I do have concerns over his skills not improving as they should have. This should be on him and the coaches.

My biggest worry is what the other guys in Brayshaw and Viney are doing. These are the two who have worryingly dropped off further imo

I don't know if lazy is the right word, but there was a Richmond goal in the second quarter where Oliver and Castagna were contesting the ball on the wing, it went into Richmond's forward line, Castagna went after it and Oliver didn't chase hard enough. Castagna duly got involved in their forward 50 and they kicked a goal.

Oliver has had problems his whole career with defensive running.

8 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

One bad game, this has been going on all season and at least part of last.   His missing targets by hand and foot has been happening for a looong time.

But we supporters have turned a blind eye to it ;  its just that its getting worse,  and some of us are talking about it more,  which brings it to others attention.

 

It's so bad now, that it need to be attended to.

Agree that he's had disposal issues previously, but he's rarely performed like he did today, where the negatives outweigh the positives.

6 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I cannot believe you guys.... drop Clayton Oliver???? Never in this LIFETIME... [censored] you blokes have lost the plot!!

Accountability?? Ok lets run through our list of "Unaccountables" shall we Oh and lets not forget he is a dual B&F and all Australian

I'd drop Max on his showing today before Clayton Oliver!!! 

Viney gone, Vaanders gone Brayshaw, gone and a few more others

Garbage 

Far out, picket.

Gawn was one of our top 3 today and Oliver's turnovers were one of the key reasons we lost.

I'm all for not throwing babies out with bathwater, and as I said earlier, this is really just one awful game from Oliver where his positives failed to outweigh his negatives, but this is an insane statement.

5 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We aren't talking in this thread about other players,  this is solely on Oli.

And he needs to be saved from himself. Before he goes right off the rails.

 

Everyone needs some discipline or self-disciplne,  and Oli  has had last 2 years to sort out his disposals.   Including handball to kick rations,  and his accuracy.

He hasn't.!

I agree with the point Picket is making here. Clayton is battling due to the others around him being poor.

Who gives a stuff about kick to handball ratio. The kids wins more 50/50 ball than nearly anyone in the comp (gave Cripps a deadset bath) giving it to the guys on the outside. 

There are plenty more in the team and need the [censored] over Clayton

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I don't know if lazy is the right word, but there was a Richmond goal in the second quarter where Oliver and Castagna were contesting the ball on the wing, it went into Richmond's forward line, Castagna went after it and Oliver didn't chase hard enough. Castagna duly got involved in their forward 50 and they kicked a goal.

Oliver has had problems his whole career with defensive running.

Agree that he's had disposal issues previously, but he's rarely performed like he did today, where the negatives outweigh the positives.

Far out, picket.

Gawn was one of our top 3 today and Oliver's turnovers were one of the key reasons we lost.

I'm all for not throwing babies out with bathwater, and as I said earlier, this is really just one awful game from Oliver where his positives failed to outweigh his negatives, but this is an insane statement.

Really, I thought Max was Ok today no more no less! One turnover late in game when game was lost at selection AGAIN!

4 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I don't know if lazy is the right word,

he is lazy in that he has not done what is required to change and improve his weak points.

His disposal issues have been a part of his trademark.

Its become time to act.

4 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

Who gives a stuff about kick to handball ratio

The coaches over 2 to 3 seasons, is who are concerned.

25 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I'm not necessarily putting it down to him being lazy and not really close enough to him to know if he's big headed, but his form and disposal option selection at the moment is absolute rubbish.  Is not creating clearances, just creating team turnovers and having him in the side is stopping us from getting the ball moving to the outside.

Needs to wear a collar that gives him an electric shock every time he handpasses less than 2m to a team mate under pressure or just slams it on his boot mongrel pun style randomly to no one.

I wouldn't be against dropping him, Sending Harmes back into the guts full time and bringing in Jordan or Tom Sparrow at this point, because I actually feel like Oliver is part of what is holding us back from playing a more free flowing brand of footy right now.

this is exactly how I feel about him at the moment. i thought we looked better around the ball when they took Oliver out of the centre clearances and put Harmes in there later in the game. Harmes at least tries to create something and takes on pressure to release his team mates. the opposite of what Oliver is doing right now. 

11 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

I agree with the point Picket is making here. Clayton is battling due to the others around him being poor.

Who gives a stuff about kick to handball ratio. The kids wins more 50/50 ball than nearly anyone in the comp (gave Cripps a deadset bath) giving it to the guys on the outside. 

There are plenty more in the team and need the [censored] over Clayton

So we pick on a two time B&F and All Australian whos form is mirroring aspects of the overall team performance

And we are turning on him en masse!

Players need development from COACHES 

I'll say that as fact!

That's why has he gone backwards then?? eh?

 

 

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by picket fence

8 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We aren't talking in this thread about other players,  this is solely on Oli.

And he needs to be saved from himself. Before he goes right off the rails.

 

Everyone needs some discipline or self-disciplne,  and Oli  has had last 2 years to sort out his disposals.   Including handball to kick rations,  and his accuracy.

He hasn't.!

He’s won two B&Fs you idiots, as a22yo that’s pretty good going

If the coach had an actual game plan the players might actually play with a bit of freedom!

1 hour ago, Watts the matter said:

His lack of development is an enditment on all of our coaches, and we have enough of them.

Needs to stick his tackles, run harder, stop stepping back into traffic, start absorbing tackles with forward momentum and hit a target by foot.

 

And him... he needs to take accountability as well. Look at Tracc... get off the video games and learn how to be a better player. 

3 minutes ago, Demon Dude said:

I'm not necessarily putting it down to him being lazy and not really close enough to him to know if he's big headed, but his form and disposal option selection at the moment is absolute rubbish.  Is not creating clearances, just creating team turnovers and having him in the side is stopping us from getting the ball moving to the outside.

He's not moving with the ball;  he takes a step or two and flick it out.   His eyes are always too low, and doesn't look for other options. needs to raise his eyes a bit and also look to see a direct foot pass either laterally or directly forward.

 

He dishes off his responsibility,  and mostly puts the next teammate under the pump,  because of these Habits.

4 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

And him... he needs to take accountability as well. Look at Tracc... get off the video games and learn how to be a better player. 

100% agree, but I can't believe he has shown up and continued to do it again this season. They have that many coaches they employ. He needs to be tackled by Vandanberg non stop at training and practice standing up and dishing off.

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by Watts the matter

1 hour ago, Elegt said:

Lazy. One way runner. Needs a huge kick up the bum. Should be dropped 

 

1 hour ago, SPC said:

Like every other player on the list, he has not developed. Kicks and handballs off balance and should spend a week out of the side 

 

1 hour ago, Watts the matter said:

His lack of development is an enditment on all of our coaches, and we have enough of them.

Needs to stick his tackles, run harder, stop stepping back into traffic, start absorbing tackles with forward momentum and hit a target by foot.

 

 

1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

Oliver is ticking along ok. Went head to head with Cripps when we played Carlton and did some nice defensive work. So I think Oliver is passing the grade. However, he does play scared, which is frustrating to watch because he moves the ball onto the next bloke - like a hot spud. He could do with some rounds in the boxing ring just to become aware of that contact, and psychologically get over that fear, because he is a star and its a shame to see him go to waste. 

Unfortunately guys the real issues with players like Clarry, Brayshaw even Viney is they came to the MFC with no gun mids to learn from trying their butts off but when the going gets tough you need a Selwood, Pendelbury type to lead his troops and pave the way. As a life long member this is the worst I've ever felt about the Dees, just when we have a heap of talent that should be the envy of the comp we find ways to stuff it up. I just want one off these guys to become a top 3 player in the comp for once...

33 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Needs to wear a collar that gives him an electric shock every time he handpasses less than 2m to a team mate under pressure or just slams it on his boot mongrel pun style randomly to no one

The signs were there last year with his handpassing. In the irrelevancy of the second half of last season a good coach would have worked on that but ... well we don't have a good coach

17 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

The coaches over 2 to 3 seasons, is who are concerned.

rubbish comment.

He’s won two best and fairests and was second in the other. They’re clearly not concerned about the way he plays