6 hours ago, cookieboc said:

 

44 to 12 means out if a finals I presume.

6 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

he's yet to find a way to teach them when to play on or when to stop, he's yet to find a way to teach them when to go long or when to look short

Irrelevant when regardless of what happens YOU TURN THE BALL OVER.

Though even in this you're ignoring the obvious: they ARE being taught all that - but they just can't execute it. At least not for enough of a game to make a difference.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In addition to this - if the players don't possess the skills to execute your gameplan, then you need to alter the gameplan to give the players at your disposal the best chance of success.

The logical extension of this argument is that you could take Koo Wee Rup seconds and turn them into an AFL-capable side just by a) good coaching and b) adjusting the game plan around their weaknesses.

If you don't have the cattle or the skills, coaching and game plans are irrelevant.

1 hour ago, Nascent said:

We are tired and angry and I think the board knows we are running out of patience.

Speak for yourself. Though mercifully, at Board, Admin and FD level, we have people who actually know what they're doing and know something about footy.

For people banging on about 2018, one of the main differences is we had at least a few (experienced) players who could make good decisions and then actually execute them without turning the ball over: Lewis, Vince and an in-form Jones for starters.

5 hours ago, olisik said:

Guarantee not every player left behind is injured, so are they meant to just sit on there hands with no prospect of playing due to someone’s misso taking there seat? I would be livid.

That's not true In dome States hold surfing cafe and coffee ing are ok

17 minutes ago, bing181 said:

The logical extension of this argument is that you could take Koo Wee Rup seconds and turn them into an AFL-capable side just by a) good coaching and b) adjusting the game plan around their weaknesses.

If you don't have the cattle or the skills, coaching and game plans are irrelevant.

That's a copout though, this isn't some ragtag group of bush footballers. This team made a prelim less than 2 years ago. With extra development into these players, many who are or have been highly rated, we should be making finals at the very least. We were 17th last year and currently 17th this year and on current form across the comp there is not many teams we would beat.

14 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Speak for yourself. Though mercifully, at Board, Admin and FD level, we have people who actually know what they're doing and know something about footy.

Apologies, I am tired and angry. The post game thread is full of happy-go-lucky folks. I sure hope they do however the last year and half hasn't filled me with much confidence. 

Just now, 58er said:

That's not true In dome States hold surfing cafe and coffee ing are ok

Golf not hold

5 hours ago, picket fence said:

No its not like the old days Goodwin gets what he wants ALWAYS! Otherwise it pointless him being coach

Unless you've actually sat on (or sat in on) the selection committee, this is just conjecture.

5 hours ago, Mickey said:

I made some suggestions in the Hub thread.

My thinking is Neita, Kolo, Hore, Petty, Bradtke, both Wagners, Dunkley, Baker will stay. Preuss, Sparrow, Jordon and Chandler make 13, so one will probably come with the team.

Will be interesting if any older players stay. Goodwin said families were coming, but I wonder if Jones would really want to bring his school age children for longer than 2 weeks.

Both are not school age But more pre school I think !!!

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This team made a prelim less than 2 years ago.

Actually not this team. Take the experience and foot skills/decision-making of Vince, Lewis and (effectively) Jones out, not just on-field but at training and around the club, and it starts to look very different. Also worth looking who has replaced those players, especially Tomlinson and Langford, both of whom bring a lot but both of whom are hit and miss decision-makers/executors.

It's no accident that down back, where we do have experience, we're actually performing well (5th in the league or something?).

6 hours ago, dworship said:

Thanks for your contribution, with a name like Loges I'll assume you're just an empty vessel like the rest of the .... people in the media

No sense of humour then  ? It wasn't a dig it was a joke.                                                                

Given the game is 90% between the ears, it seems our players are not mentally focused enough of the time in game.  

12 hours ago, Redleg said:

And the way we are going, he will be the greatest player of all time.

Will need to be good to be better than the kid who just popped his shoulder.

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

For people banging on about 2018, one of the main differences is we had at least a few (experienced) players who could make good decisions and then actually execute them without turning the ball over: Lewis, Vince and an in-form Jones for starters.

You’re joking! Jones is the original turnover king!

10 hours ago, Cards13 said:

What is wrong with you???????? #MFCSS

Hey Cards. I find that in times of adversity it helps to surround yourself with quality beer, food and friends. We’ll all get through this together. 

7 hours ago, dworship said:

And this makes up for all the momentum stealing and goals that get kicked against us? I'm no longer a happy clapper when they pay us a free and the opposition take 30 secs to return the ball while they remonstrate with the umpire. HEY AFL!!  PAY ATTENTION! THERE IS A RULE CALLED DELAY OF GAME, START ENFORCING THAT AND SEE HOW MUCH THE GAME SPEEDS UP!

I would love the umpires to get tough on time wasting tactics.

The standing over the ball so an opposition player can’t quickly get it to their teammate who has a free, the “Huh, are you sure you mean that player, the only one near me? I’ll check again because I didn’t hear you properly.” rubbish, the I-was-clearly-out marked-but-I-will-pretend-the-mark-is-4-metres-over-where-it-was-until-told-three-times-to-move-back routine, the juvenile “I can bullet hand pass to a moving teammate 20 metres away over my shoulder but the only way to get the ball to the stationery opposition player 10 metres away is a slow, floaty arc toss”.

Watch junior footy, none of this happens, so it’s clearly coached into the players as a tactic.

My only fear is I have high confidence if this happened Melbourne would adjust to this the least well and (rightfully) end up with 17 50m penalties against each game.

Playing to the current interpretation of the rules, right or wrong, is also a skill.

11 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

The point being that players can improve their kicking throughout their career. 

I understand your point I just have a different opinion. 
Not many players improve their field kicking during their career, look at our perennial offenders for example- Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver even Langdon. 

12 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Yep and I was howled down by @Wiseblood this week for saying as much. He is a kid who needs development for his confidence at this level. Bennell is a better option right now. 

Howled down? Hardly. I thought we had a good discussion about that, and I showed plenty of respect for your position. No need to act like a petulant child. 

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

Actually not this team. Take the experience and foot skills/decision-making of Vince, Lewis and (effectively) Jones out, not just on-field but at training and around the club, and it starts to look very different. Also worth looking who has replaced those players, especially Tomlinson and Langford, both of whom bring a lot but both of whom are hit and miss decision-makers/executors.

It's no accident that down back, where we do have experience, we're actually performing well (5th in the league or something?).

Sorry but that is a copout. The core of the group is the same, particularly the young midfield core who was expected to take this team to the top. Losing that experience might account for a drop from top 4 to top 8, but not to bottom of the ladder.

As Dermie and King pointed out last night on first crack (worth a watch as they discussed us for a good 10-15 minutes) the coach/club have the list they want. They built this list and have the players they wanted and the areas of the ground they invested in. We also have basically no injuries to players who are in contention for senior selection.

16 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

I understand your point I just have a different opinion. 
Not many players improve their field kicking during their career, look at our perennial offenders for example- Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver even Langdon. 

I haven't been to a training session since the Juntion days, but I just wonder how much kicking practice we actually do, especially in the early parts of preseason.

I know most drills have kicking in them, but I'm talking specifically kicking practice drills.

Given our inability to hit targets, and our ability to kick it on the full at least 10 times in a match, clearly we don't do it enough. 

1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

Given the game is 90% between the ears, it seems our players are not mentally focused enough of the time in game.  

Couldn’t agree more. Intensity is not just physical.  We need mental intensity.  Concentration.  To kick it properly.  To make the right decision.  To use handball creatively.  That’s seriously lacking. It’s not lack of confidence.  It’s the foundation skills and decision to then execute it. 

1 minute ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Couldn’t agree more. Intensity is not just physical.  We need mental intensity.  Concentration.  To kick it properly.  To make the right decision.  To use handball creatively.  That’s seriously lacking. It’s not lack of confidence.  It’s the foundation skills and decision to then execute it. 

Sorry it is a lack of confidence that leads to bad decisions as doubts creep in the more we fail. Of course intensity and concentration and physical presence create this lack of confidence coincidentally!!

A largely inept performance by a playing group severely lacking in basic football skills and game sense. Only Petracca has consistently elevated himself above the malaise this season.

Goodwin needs to take responsibility on three accounts:

1. He is asking this group to play a style of football that is above their capabilities.

2. Every player on this list has either been recruited by or re-signed by him.

3. He won't select the players necessary to play this style of football, eg key forwards and good kickers.

As for the players:

May - solid again defensively, but his kicking, which I generally rate, has been woeful this year.

Salem - an over rated, under achieving, selfish footballer.

Harmes - we looked better when he played midfield. Just leave him there, Goodwin.

Petracca - a class above every other player on the ground.

Viney - King Dumb Dumb of all the dumb footballers on our list. Is less of a player than he was in round 1, 2013.

Lever - the opposition's best defensive forward. His work to consistently spoil May & Gawn is first rate.

Brayshaw - another who is currently being wasted on the periphery.

Gawn - solid, but hardly dominant, against mediocre opposition. His lazy kicking is unacceptable.

Oliver - looks to be a confused, over coached player. Just let him do his own thing.

Hibberd - best game for three years.

Langdon - works hard for little result.

Melksham - a selfish, lazy and arrogant footballer. Should have been dropped last week and must be this week.

Hannan - needs to maintain current level of hard work.

Tomlinson - should be embarrassed by his lack of physicality and competitiveness. A major disappointment.

Vandenberg - Lacking match fitness and skills have not improved.

Rivers - has looked out of his depth in past two weeks, but we have to persist.

McDonald - we've bulked him up, now we push him back up the field? The mind boggles.

Hunt - a waste of space when he won't put his body on the line.

Fritsch - looked much better playing half forward.

Pickett - looks like a auskicker playing against men. Has developed some awful habits in the past fortnight.

Lockhart - a mediocre footballer who has had all the flair of his first year coached out of him.

Smith - an athlete with no football nous. Only useful running in straight lines.