TEAMS: Rd 05 vs Richmond

[Hogan2014 390]

So we have kicked 7, 8 & 6 goals in our 3 games yet Goody continues to not bring any other tall forwards in Brown or Weiderman...  very baffling & not sure what more proof he needs that we can’t take enough marks in our 50, please explain  

[Mel Bourne 3,881]

22 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

Wow... but that doesn't support the theories that we paid overs for Lever and he sucks....

There is no debating that for the price of two first round draft picks and whatever large sum of money was handed over, he has not been worth it thus far.

I want him, as I want every player at the club, to succeed and prosper. But in the case of Lever, he has zero laurels to rest on and needs to get at least one BOG for the club this year, or the price just cannot be justified.

[Deemania since 56 6,254]

24 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Melksham is very lucky. I am a fan but his half efforts this year have been disgusting

Melk is too hungry to kick the improbable himself. His passing is so very often characterised by kicking the ball outside-in, around a mythical corner and lower than the distance (improbable for that kind of pass) demands. He really does not seek players leading to space - either outside to the flanks or those moving in the midline with a distanced defender. He really could work on his kicking - it was once far better than he has recently displayed (almost a great ball passer when he first joined the Dees). 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

30 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

Wow... but that doesn't support the theories that we paid overs for Lever and he sucks....

I posted this in the other thread where this stupid table was used but I'll do it again.

Would love to see the number of 1 on 1s as opposed to a percentage. I think we can all trust our eyes and know that Lever is not a great one on on player and rarely takes the quality of players someone making that kind of money does. 

Can you tell me a game where he has shutdown a dangerous player? I genuinely can't think of one. Even when he had a decent patch for us in 2018 he was playing on very average players.

Intercepts and spoils are a ridiculous stat to combine, I have no interest in a third man coming up and hitting a ball out of bounds, that is neutralizing a two on one.

 

[Engorged Onion 9,524]

12 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I posted this in the other thread where this stupid table was used but I'll do it again.

Would love to see the number of 1 on 1s as opposed to a percentage. I think we can all trust our eyes and know that Lever is not a great one on on player and rarely takes the quality of players someone making that kind of money does. 

Can you tell me a game where he has shutdown a dangerous player? I genuinely can't think of one. Even when he had a decent patch for us in 2018 he was playing on very average players.

Intercepts and spoils are a ridiculous stat to combine, I have no interest in a third man coming up and hitting a ball out of bounds, that is neutralizing a two on one.

 

@Watts the matter 

From your perspective, what does one have to do to 'shut down a player'?

Breakdown the stats that 'said' player can reach, before the threshold is that he has not been shut down.

Now, I am genuinely not trying to be a smartarse, I want to know what you look for as an acceptable pass mark.

When you give me that, I will seriously go and research it, as I have had a skinful.

 

Also my point is that optics are not metrics. And you my dear poster, do not have all the metrics.(nor do I)

Edited July 3, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[Engorged Onion 9,524]

18 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

So we have kicked 7, 8 & 6 goals in our 3 games yet Goody continues to not bring any other tall forwards in Brown or Weiderman...  very baffling & not sure what more proof he needs that we can’t take enough marks in our 50, please explain  

@Hogan2014, I hear what you are saying, tall forwards (our) tall forwards are ordinary at marking at the moment.

Even Bailey Fritsch dropped a few he should have snavelled. Mark of the day should have gone to Kossie, he dropped it too. 

The tall forward option is not the remedy until they are in form. Snavalling your marks as they present is the remedy..

[old dee 23,020]

Just now, Engorged Onion said:

@Hogan2014, I hear what you are saying, tall forwards (our) tall forwards are ordinary at marking at the moment.

Even Bailey Fritsch dropped a few he should have snavelled. Mark of the day should have gone to Kossie, he dropped it too. 

The tall forward option is not the remedy until they are in form. Snavalling your marks as they present is the remedy..

 

Just now, Engorged Onion said:

@Hogan2014, I hear what you are saying, tall forwards (our) tall forwards are ordinary at marking at the moment.

Even Bailey Fritsch dropped a few he should have snavelled. Mark of the day should have gone to Kossie, he dropped it too. 

The tall forward option is not the remedy until they are in form. Snavalling your marks as they present is the remedy..

Serious question EO how do players not in the 22 each week get in form? That is not going to happen in 14 a side scratch matches, how many will be play when a few injuries happen.? And what happens now are all players moving interstate?

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

@Watts the matter 

From your perspective, what does one have to do to 'shut down a player'?

Breakdown the stats that 'said' player can reach, before the threshold is that he has not been shut down.

Now, I am genuinely not trying to be a smartarse, I want to know what you look for as an acceptable pass mark.

When you give me that, I will seriously go and research it, as I have had a skinful.

 

Also my point is that optics are not metrics. And you my dear poster, do not have all the metrics.(nor do I)

Restrict them from having a big impact on the ggame. Steven May does this, bad trade, but not because he is a bad or overpaid player. We all do have the answer for this one, he doesn't play on quality players, he plays on weak links so never.

 Our backline gives us no run, partly because Jake Lever causes structural issues by not providing run and not playing as a tall. 

What does he provide? 

[Engorged Onion 9,524]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

 

Serious question EO how do players not in the 22 each week get in form? That is not going to happen in 14 a side scratch matches, how many will be play when a few injuries happen.? And what happens now are all players moving interstate?

Yeah it's tough one @old dee, and I guess if I was a coach, I'm looking for a few things. 

• Positional roles, and can those vying for a spot - can they supplant the incumbent through what is seen in training?
• In training, who can execute skills, and roles irrespective of notoriety (and then getting a bank of those in training before pulling the trigger for match selection) *see Bennell, but his is also rehab based.

Essentially when the injuries occur, it's the same process, with whatever ceiling you as a coaching department see as an acceptable level. OR at least trade of the positive attributes vs the negative attributes and hope for the best.

Interstate? FIIK

 

*If my name was Alex, I would be feeling very unclear as to why I am not in the team. (But we know he can fudge his finishing, despite his workrate)

[In Harmes Way 7,617]

I like that Goody's trying to stabilise a best 22 but agree with others on here we should do this with one more tall in the fwd line.

And I'm still waiting (less patiently) for a Bennell/Kossie forward line. It's not too much to ask, is it?

 

[old dee 23,020]

6 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

I like that Goody's trying to stabilise a best 22 but agree with others on here we should do this with one more tall in the fwd line.

And I'm still waiting (less patiently) for a Bennell/Kossie forward line. It's not too much to ask, is it?

 

Obviously yes

[rjay 24,066]

7 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

I like that Goody's trying to stabilise a best 22 but agree with others on here we should do this with one more tall in the fwd line.

And I'm still waiting (less patiently) for a Bennell/Kossie forward line. It's not too much to ask, is it?

 

I would like him to select the best 22 before he tries to stabilise it...

[John Demonic 4,914]

13 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

I like that Goody's trying to stabilise a best 22 but agree with others on here we should do this with one more tall in the fwd line.

And I'm still waiting (less patiently) for a Bennell/Kossie forward line. It's not too much to ask, is it?

 

We'll end up with an ANB, Lockhart, VDB, Melk, Fritta, Jones forward line by r12

With Kosi, Bedford and Bennell in the reserves chasing tackle numbers and high marks in the Goodwin Zone Class, to get back into the team

?

Edited July 3, 2020 by John Demonic

[Mental Demons 136]

47 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

If he comes in later in round 8 or so, has a big impact but we're so far back that it's just an exercise in preparing for 2021

This whole year is about the advertising and AFL economy. The hope is that next year wont be a compromised season. I don't mind what happens this year as long as it is good for the future and there is good team and player development. Who knows, it might just be good practice for a compromised season next year. The shortened games seem to favour smaller quicker teams and our team is trying to adjust. I don't think Goodwin will take this team to finals again anyway. TMac is our only proven key position player and he seems to be taking his time adjusting to the new game but he has been improving. Most of our spine is guys playing out of position, this is a bigger block to success.

[Hogan2014 390]

COVID-19 aside he’s struggling, either he’s a thickhead or his players are, but will only survive due to financial status of the club

[Rednblueriseing 664]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

That is the complete opposite of what happened.

I suggest you watch the replay, very few bombs to the square. Fritsch and Melky got out bodied and didn't lead 

[Demonjase 1]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:40 PM, titan_uranus said:

And ahead of Jones and ANB, too.

Did he play well in the scratch match?

Jones had 30 possessions and 7 clearances in the practice match against Geelong... and Bennell kick 4... Wow wee Goodwin would love to know what’s going through your head

 

[old dee 23,020]

2 minutes ago, Demonjase said:

Jones had 30 possessions and 7 clearances in the practice match against Geelong... and Bennell kick 4... Wow wee Goodwin would love to know what’s going through your head

 

Not a lot!

[Engorged Onion 9,524]

Ok @Watts the matter for clarities sake and the fact that we play a zone defence, let's look at the forward line (as named) for all 3 clubs that we have played, as Lever plays in the back line

 

So for Geelong 

                      G     B     Disposals

Hawkins       1     3     13

Ratugolea    1     1      5

Dalhaus                      14

Other goals all came from midfielders (aside from Parfitt)

Any big impacts on the game? Wouldn't have thought so from my optics

This is part of a team/zone defence right? You know how that works right?

 

For Carlton it was

                               G     B     Disposals

Betts                       1     2         8

McKay                    1                10

Cunningham          1               11

*McGovern             1              10   half forward line

*Caboult                1                 6    half forward line

 

Any big impacts on the game? Wouldn't have thought so from my optics

For WCE it was

                               G     B     Disposals

Cripps                                     12

Kennedy                                    4

Ryan                    3       3         14

*Darling            1                      8   half forward line

*Redden                                   9   half forward line

Ah Chee            2        1         12   half forward line

 

Now, I'd argue that's pretty good going, aside from Ryan in the WCE game, whom I am sure due to size, speed wouldn't have been a direct match up.

His role never has been to dominate individual players but to play as part of a system. The system, as part of the back line is doing fine. 

 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

17 minutes ago, rjay said:

I would like him to select the best 22 before he tries to stabilise it...

This all day long and twice on Sunday. Idiotic to select an inferior 22. The time for practise matches ended in February. He is gifting kids games when they aren’t up to it yet. Lockhart is in that boat. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

5 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

This all day long and twice on Sunday. Idiotic to select an inferior 22. The time for practise matches ended in February. He is gifting kids games when they aren’t up to it yet. Lockhart is in that boat. 

What 'kids' are being gifted games?

And no, Lockhart isn't in that boat.  While he made a few mistakes last weekend, his pre-season form was excellent, as was his game against the Eagles prior to the shutdown.  Even Goodwin said he was unlucky to miss the Carlton game.

What other kids are being 'gifted games'?

[Lord Nev 13,511]

18 minutes ago, Rednblueriseing said:

I suggest you watch the replay, very few bombs to the square. Fritsch and Melky got out bodied and didn't lead 

I've watched the game twice mate. I suggest you have another watch of the game and try to notice how many times open options and leads are ignored due to hesitation before a kick is launched to an outnumbered contest.

[dazzledavey36 49,397]

With all my frustration of this weeks team selections, and last weeks game.

I've tipped us by 3 goals.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

5 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Ok @Watts the matter for clarities sake and the fact that we play a zone defence, let's look at the forward line (as named) for all 3 clubs that we have played, as Lever plays in the back line

 

So for Geelong 

                      G     B     Disposals

Hawkins       1     3     13

Ratugolea    1     1      5

Dalhaus                      14

Other goals all came from midfielders (aside from Parfitt)

Any big impacts on the game? Wouldn't have thought so from my optics

This is part of a team/zone defence right? You know how that works right?

 

For Carlton it was

                               G     B     Disposals

Betts                       1     2         8

McKay                    1                10

Cunningham          1               11

*McGovern             1              10   half forward line

*Caboult                1                 6    half forward line

 

Any big impacts on the game? Wouldn't have thought so from my optics

For WCE it was

                               G     B     Disposals

Cripps                                     12

Kennedy                                    4

Ryan                    3       3         14

*Darling            1                      8   half forward line

*Redden                                   9   half forward line

Ah Chee            2        1         12   half forward line

 

Now, I'd argue that's pretty good going, aside from Ryan in the WCE game, whom I am sure due to size, speed wouldn't have been a direct match up.

His role never has been to dominate individual players but to play as part of a system. The system, as part of the back line is doing fine. 

 

So we are paying huge money for a lock dowdefender who is providing little offensively? The following players could easily do what Lever is doing better or would provide the same output for half the pay.

Dodee, Gardiner, Docherty, Howe, Ryan, Sicily, Robertson, Haynes, Shepperd, Hurn, Stewart, Grimes, Vlaustin, Broad and I'm sure a stack more.

If Lever was our 10th or 15th highest player I would judge him differently but we are not getting value for money.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

What 'kids' are being gifted games?

And no, Lockhart isn't in that boat.  While he made a few mistakes last weekend, his pre-season form was excellent, as was his game against the Eagles prior to the shutdown.  Even Goodwin said he was unlucky to miss the Carlton game.

What other kids are being 'gifted games'?

Kozzie is being picked on potential is he not? Rivers a bit the same? I am saying that if the 2s were up and running, these blokes would, in any other side, be earning their spots. We are playing kids as if this season is a development year. Answer me this is: Jetta better than Lockhart at the moment? Is Bennell a better option than Kozzie at present? I am not saying these blokes won’t surpass their peers before year’s end, but I am not sure they are ahead right now. 
 

goodwin has clearly shown his incompetence at the selection table this week. If I see Lockhart laughing after making a mistake this week, I’ll cancel my $450 jumper purchase