7 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I know hindsight is wonderful but I wonder how many DL’s would now rather Ben King than May. I am a fan of May, but wonder if we had Ben King and then kept Frost as a result of not getting May if we would be better off, certainly in the long term.

Who do you think we go for in the 2019 draft if we took B. King in '18? Hayden Young instead of Jackson? Do we stil take Rivers then or another player? Or still take Jackson as best available?

 

Edited July 2, 20204 yr by John Demonic

4 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Who do you think we go for in the 2019 draft if we took B. King in '18? Hayden Young instead of Jackson? Do we stil take Rivers then or another player? Or still take Jackson as best available?

 

If we had King I would still be happy with the 3 we took last year. I really wanted Rivers and and am very keen on Petty and Jordon.

14 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I know hindsight is wonderful but I wonder how many DL’s would now rather Ben King than May. I am a fan of May, but wonder if we had Ben King and then kept Frost as a result of not getting May if we would be better off, certainly in the long term.

would've preferred it at the time

46 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I know hindsight is wonderful, but I wonder how many DL’s would now rather Ben King than May. I am a fan of May, but wonder if we had Ben King and then kept Frost as a result of not getting May, if we would be better off, certainly so in the long term.

MfcSS

Because of this stuff we have to build up in stages;  not so long ago we as a team/club would fold under slight pressure.

Its like a train taking passengers to the city.  Each station is a progression, and these mature players help us grow steadier,  and grow belief with that as we go.   This doesn't happen across a team just with newbie kids, unless they are a Judd or similar.

So 'May' is another station we pass,  on our way closer to the destination.

 

The selectors and footy dept are definitely changing the way we select now this 2020,  and are putting the bar higher for everyone. 

Cameo skills are not enough any longer for this team, and Everyone has to now be responsible in all areas on-field.  

That is how I see it now.

 

Also this year sees clubs going for speed/agility more widely.  With less height up front.

I reckon, we had this planned from mid last season and is why we went after Jackson.

I now think we had him and Pickett targeted early,  as part of a new strategic concept.

Edited July 2, 20204 yr by MyFavouriteMartian

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

I know hindsight is wonderful, but I wonder how many DL’s would now rather Ben King than May. I am a fan of May, but wonder if we had Ben King and then kept Frost as a result of not getting May, if we would be better off, certainly so in the long term.

Yes. Ben King at 200cms. His marking and agility were very rare and skills to match. Suns must be very happy with this deal. ???

May is slowly finding some form so let him do so and connect with Lever as they've played little games together 

The answer is Jacko/Weed and Bennell. 

It's that simple. 

Stop playing these smalls, we aren't Richmond. 

Even if Bennell is under done he brings something no other player does and he doesn't have to play high % of game time. Increase Gus' time on ground and reduce Bennells.

It just makes 0 sense what strategies we're implementing. 

Like what are we trying to achieve with these smalls? We get all these i50's and bang it in to Hunt, Kozzie, Hannan, Melk and Fritta. 

I know Jacko is raw but just say to him "you have one job today and that's leap at everything and trying not to get outmarked" (easier said than done, but just give him 1 job).

It's just confusing what we're doing with the team because we have talent. 

Everyone else can see it? Why can't Simon? 

We have tall forward....

Play them....


 

I would like to see us have a good look at getting Josh Rotham over from the Eagles. I think he is a best 22 for the Eagles but he can’t seem to get a decent at it! He is a great intercept mark down back and can swing forward.

The other is Peter Wright. His best football will be played back in Victoria. Our tall forwards are bloody hopeless... 

We have an abundance of players too trade...! ?

15 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

I would like to see us have a good look at getting Josh Rotham over from the Eagles. I think he is a best 22 for the Eagles but he can’t seem to get a decent at it! He is a great intercept mark down back and can swing forward.

The other is Peter Wright. His best football will be played back in Victoria. Our tall forwards are bloody hopeless... 

We have an abundance of players too trade...! ?

lots of people say this about wright but i'd approach him with severe caution - not fit enough to ruck, not smart enough to play forward, he's extrezzo overrated by many i feel

doesn't get to the contest, doesn't impact the contest, doesn't work hard both ways, not great at ground level

On 7/2/2020 at 4:29 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Brayshaw played outside in his draft year and across half back. He’s suited to a link type player. Not inside. He shouldn’t be in there with Viney, Harmes, Petracca or Oliver. 

He is Mr Versatile for us; tend to agree with you, though, that he is a better outside player as a strong link to our game. He has a quick mind and seizes opportunities rather well, particularly goalward. 

brayshaw doesn't run - he jogs

the notion of using him as an 'outside' player won't work

Apart from Terry Wallace, no one in the media seems to be amazed by our reluctance to pick Sam Weideman.  I think it reflects our continued irrelevance as a club and that it doesn’t really matter because we are going nowhere right now. 

On 6/28/2020 at 3:01 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

With the covid 19 tight financial impact, I think AFL lists would be cut to 40 by start of 2021 (37 + 3 rookies)  
 

Gawn (c) Viney (VC) Oliver. Petracca. May. Harmes. Brayshaw. Melksham. Fritsch. Jetta. Lever. Langdon. Tomlinson. Salem. Tmcd. 

Preuss  Hannan Hore Hunt Lockhart 

Injury queries - 2020 a must year - J.Smith# Vandenburg# Bennell# 

Developing - Petty Sparrow Bedford Jackson Pickett  Rivers Jordan Nietschke (r)

Hold onto  (but need to show more) - Weideman   omcd Hibberd Brown 

(35)

trade - ANB 

likely retire - Jones

Likely delist. KK. Dunkley Spargo. Cwagner. Baker JWagner. Chandler.  Bradtke  

Add 5 more (3 main list + 2 rookies)

Really hope we see Bennell and Weideman in shortly. Also like to see Sparrow back as he showed real promise in the brief chance he had last year. 

Trade Brayshaw. Might be able to get a second round pick for him - if we are lucky. Approach Tom McDonald about a trade, if he is willing then trade him. I'm not really sure I see much value in others. I'd move Hunt on if he was up for it, and any suitors were available. I think he could thrive in a good team. A side might be willing. We are ready for a mini rebuild just to freshen up. That first round pick we naively off loaded to North would be nice, but we will have to settle with moving some pieces around and positioning up for a couple of second round picks. 

47 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Trade Brayshaw. Might be able to get a second round pick for him - if we are lucky. Approach Tom McDonald about a trade, if he is willing then trade him. I'm not really sure I see much value in others. I'd move Hunt on if he was up for it, and any suitors were available. I think he could thrive in a good team. A side might be willing. We are ready for a mini rebuild just to freshen up. That first round pick we naively off loaded to North would be nice, but we will have to settle with moving some pieces around and positioning up for a couple of second round picks. 

Trade Brayshaw. No from me. This years draft is so compromised with 15 of the top 30 being club based academy, NGA aligned or father son picks. No value in draft picks as was shown why JT traded out 2020 first rounder for Pickett.

I would use ANB as bait to try to grab one of Port Power youngsters who are missing out.  Willem Drew, Joe Atley or Jarrod Lienert as fringe types who have shown AFL standards but are squeezed out right now. 

So whats next.. we will finish bottom 4 and wont have a pick until teh 2nd round.. unacceptable that you trade a commodity like that away and then play so badly that the one thing you can hang your hat on is that we get a good look at a quality pick.. and this years crop is really strong..

Soooo.. what do we do.. i truly believe the Lever trade has been a shocking bust.. but thats history.. so what stock do we have to trade? ill go first and all suggestions positive and negative are welcome.

Brayshaw - MUST TRADE - Nth would be a destination for him could get us back in first round contention

2 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

So whats next.. we will finish bottom 4 and wont have a pick until teh 2nd round.. unacceptable that you trade a commodity like that away and then play so badly that the one thing you can hang your hat on is that we get a good look at a quality pick.. and this years crop is really strong..

Soooo.. what do we do.. i truly believe the Lever trade has been a shocking bust.. but thats history.. so what stock do we have to trade? ill go first and all suggestions positive and negative are welcome.

Brayshaw - MUST TRADE - Nth would be a destination for him could get us back in first round contention

Brayshaw will end up like Tyson and not get a game for them. That's how bad he is playing. Trade Lever back to Adelaide for 2 first round picks they would be stupid enough to do it. Trade Weid and Preuss for Daniher.

Trade the entire coaching panel for Clarkson.

More like. Who would you not consider trading?

1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

So whats next.. we will finish bottom 4 and wont have a pick until teh 2nd round.. unacceptable that you trade a commodity like that away and then play so badly that the one thing you can hang your hat on is that we get a good look at a quality pick.. and this years crop is really strong..

Soooo.. what do we do.. i truly believe the Lever trade has been a shocking bust.. but thats history.. so what stock do we have to trade? ill go first and all suggestions positive and negative are welcome.

Brayshaw - MUST TRADE - Nth would be a destination for him could get us back in first round contention

won't get much for brayshaw

second rounder at best

there's very little value on our list unless we offer up one of oliver or petracca

Viney is a free agent this year.

Bayley Frietch is also out of contract.

Some big decisions looming. No 1st round draft pick. North i quietly rubbing their hands.

1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

So whats next.. we will finish bottom 4 and wont have a pick until teh 2nd round.. unacceptable that you trade a commodity like that away and then play so badly that the one thing you can hang your hat on is that we get a good look at a quality pick.. and this years crop is really strong..

Soooo.. what do we do.. i truly believe the Lever trade has been a shocking bust.. but thats history.. so what stock do we have to trade? ill go first and all suggestions positive and negative are welcome.

Brayshaw - MUST TRADE - Nth would be a destination for him could get us back in first round contention

Take Oli out of the ruck and put Brayshaw into the spot.  

Play Brayshaw into form,  and see which way we go from there.  See what works best for us.

 

Keep Viney inside the mids.  And bring some other players thru the midfield to try them out,  one at a time.

Time to send the kids back,  and bring Chunk in,  and maybe JJordan.

2 hours ago, Demon3 said:

So whats next.. we will finish bottom 4 and wont have a pick until teh 2nd round.. unacceptable that you trade a commodity like that away and then play so badly that the one thing you can hang your hat on is that we get a good look at a quality pick.. and this years crop is really strong..

Soooo.. what do we do.. i truly believe the Lever trade has been a shocking bust.. but thats history.. so what stock do we have to trade? ill go first and all suggestions positive and negative are welcome.

Brayshaw - MUST TRADE - Nth would be a destination for him could get us back in first round contention

I'm finding it tough to get my head around this. We put our chips to the middle of the table on this one and backed ourselves in, the FD clearly had confidence we were going places so all of a sudden we lack confidence and play like a bottom 4 side. 

I would say if this continues we may have no choice but to break up some of the list we have so far fought hard to keep together. 

My option is the one where you take the many years of underachieving and ask why and how.  There is plenty of talent on board.  Not any greater than other clubs but the equal of others.  But as I watch the Dees and compare us to other teams, there are glaring issues. 
 

1- the main one. Our foot skills are horrible. The worst in the league.  We are the TURNOVER KINGS. IT KILLS US. I would have sessions of constant skill development.  Delivery of the footy is critical. The Hawks and Tigers teams of the past decade that won premierships were manic on how accurate they deliver the footy.  And it’s not just slow.  You have to make quick decisions and have the skill to deliver.  

2- OVERHANDBALLING.  There are too many handballs that put pressure on teammates.  Some handballs are looping. It’s another part of the game that is so critical.  Handballs are to create.  Our stats show we have more handballs than kicks. It’s not running line breaking. It’s often to a bloke standing still who is 60cms away. Ridiculous.    I think it’s sometimes the lack of confidence to kick the footy so we handball it instead.  
 

3- Converting our inside 50s.  We win contested footy. Two issues.
First - The DELIVERY INTO FWD50 IS DUMB AND HORRIBLE. To the pocket or in high.  Easy to defend. There is no bullets or setup kicks or even chaos delivery. We are often too slow and teams flood back into zone.  
Second - We need a true marking forward.  Desparately. Hogan and Weideman were our hope.  Weideman can still be.  We must play him for the next 6 weeks. Yes 6 weeks at least.  I don’t care if he doesn’t get a kick.  It will say that’s your chance.  We will back you. If it doesn’t work, I will still reckon there will be 3-4 clubs still seeing Weideman as a trade target.  Key forwards are gold.  Tommy mcd is ok, a bandaid forward that has played above and beyond.  Jackson is not ready yet.  
 

So my point it’s back to basics but critical need for skill development. Yes that’s the coaching responsibility.  You can’t keep saying “we have trouble connecting forward of centre” without fixing it.  
 

I am not a believer in trading out a Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver etc.  They have shown they are A grade in some period of games. We need to bring that back consistently.  You trade out your surplus. I see ANB as the player who has value as a mid-forward who at 24yo with 6 years 70-80 games has some appeal to others.  He will probably want chances elsewhere. 

Overall I will stick with our blokes but with fanatic desire to see them work on transition of the footy by hand and foot. Creative and positive. Intensity is not just about pressure and tackling. Intensity is a mindset of 100% commitment 100% of the time.  We need that in our skills. We are too soft and dumb with our footskills and handball. That’s the hard work that is critically needed.  

On 7/2/2020 at 11:00 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Yes. Ben King at 200cms. His marking and agility were very rare and skills to match. Suns must be very happy with this deal. ???

I know for a fact they are.

11 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

My option is the one where you take the many years of underachieving and ask why and how.  There is plenty of talent on board.  Not any greater than other clubs but the equal of others.  But as I watch the Dees and compare us to other teams, there are glaring issues. 
 

1- the main one. Our foot skills are horrible. The worst in the league.  We are the TURNOVER KINGS. IT KILLS US. I would have sessions of constant skill development.  Delivery of the footy is critical. The Hawks and Tigers teams of the past decade that won premierships were manic on how accurate they deliver the footy.  And it’s not just slow.  You have to make quick decisions and have the skill to deliver.  

2- OVERHANDBALLING.  There are too many handballs that put pressure on teammates.  Some handballs are looping. It’s another part of the game that is so critical.  Handballs are to create.  Our stats show we have more handballs than kicks. It’s not running line breaking. It’s often to a bloke standing still who is 60cms away. Ridiculous.    I think it’s sometimes the lack of confidence to kick the footy so we handball it instead.  
 

3- Converting our inside 50s.  We win contested footy. Two issues.
First - The DELIVERY INTO FWD50 IS DUMB AND HORRIBLE. To the pocket or in high.  Easy to defend. There is no bullets or setup kicks or even chaos delivery. We are often too slow and teams flood back into zone.  
Second - We need a true marking forward.  Desparately. Hogan and Weideman were our hope.  Weideman can still be.  We must play him for the next 6 weeks. Yes 6 weeks at least.  I don’t care if he doesn’t get a kick.  It will say that’s your chance.  We will back you. If it doesn’t work, I will still reckon there will be 3-4 clubs still seeing Weideman as a trade target.  Key forwards are gold.  Tommy mcd is ok, a bandaid forward that has played above and beyond.  Jackson is not ready yet.  
 

So my point it’s back to basics but critical need for skill development. Yes that’s the coaching responsibility.  You can’t keep saying “we have trouble connecting forward of centre” without fixing it.  
 

I am not a believer in trading out a Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver etc.  They have shown they are A grade in some period of games. We need to bring that back consistently.  You trade out your surplus. I see ANB as the player who has value as a mid-forward who at 24yo with 6 years 70-80 games has some appeal to others.  He will probably want chances elsewhere. 

Overall I will stick with our blokes but with fanatic desire to see them work on transition of the footy by hand and foot. Creative and positive. Intensity is not just about pressure and tackling. Intensity is a mindset of 100% commitment 100% of the time.  We need that in our skills. We are too soft and dumb with our footskills and handball. That’s the hard work that is critically needed.  

Fair enough but Clubs will be hunting our mids looking for a bargain.