Dan Butler

[Chelly 827]

Seems to be on the outer at Tigerland and playing for their VFL side. He only picked up 13 possessions yesterday in their final but finished with four goals.

Worth a look?

[Mickey 4,731]

14 minutes ago, Chelly said:

Seems to be on the outer at Tigerland and playing for their VFL side. He only picked up 13 possessions yesterday in their final but finished with four goals.

Worth a look?

He's been mentioned in a couple of threads.

My concern is that he's a small that doesn't hit the scoreboard regularly. He averages just over a goal a game (53 from 44). We have a few smalls like that. He may be an upgrade on a Spargo or C Wagner but I'm not convinced.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

He’s a bigger body at 182cm than most of our ‘smalls’ and kicks more goals than them too, he’s also only 23. He and Ellis would be an upgrade on JKH, ANB, Stretch, Wagners, Spargo plus others.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

with the dearth of small forwards who can rotate through the midfield and the demand for them, butler will be in demand at the end of the season from multiple clubs i suspect

could yet end up a two-time premiership player if one of castagna, rioli, bolton, etc. were to get injured on the run-in to the tiggas winning it all

[Lord Travis 10,763]

Doesn’t hit the scoreboard, average skills. He’s coming from a good environment at Richmond, but I wouldn’t give up a pick under 50 for him. He’s depth at best. He’s only a slight upgrade on what we have already and isn’t the answer to our problems.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

3 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Doesn’t hit the scoreboard, average skills. He’s coming from a good environment at Richmond, but I wouldn’t give up a pick under 50 for him. He’s depth at best. He’s only a slight upgrade on what we have already and isn’t the answer to our problems.

Trading for fringe players from top sides is always fraught but I think Butler's a decent upgrade over what we have because what we have is stuff all:

Chandler - 1 game
Bedford - a fair way off it
Lockhart - has a bit more ball winning and grunt than Butler but doesn't hit the scoreboard or rack up big tackle numbers
Spargo - really appears more as an up the ground player than a crumber or tackling player, another who should compete for the ANB role
C Wagner - has very little forward craft, another who's more use up the ground
Hannan - will his body hold up? Does he still have the pace to threaten defenders?
Hunt - might be traded and whilst a somewhat decent forward option with good pace and some overhead ability his tackling pressure is poor

On the basis that he has some forward instincts and tackle pressure Butler has those guys covered. But he has to be healthy himself and he might only be fringe or in the side until we find a long term solution. Price is certainly the stickler. 

 

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I'd love us to make a play for Shai Bolton

Edited September 1, 2019 by Moonshadow

[Redleg 41,451]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

I'd love us to make a play for Shai Bolton

Doubt he would be interested.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Doubt he would be interested.

Can't we enquire?

MFCSS getting the better of you Red?

[Redleg 41,451]

26 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Can't we enquire?

MFCSS getting the better of you Red?

Be my guest, give him a call.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Be my guest, give him a call.

Ok. I won't distract you from prep for spring carnival races

[rjay 25,092]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

I'd love us to make a play for Shai Bolton

 

54 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Doubt he would be interested.

There was a player at Geelong a while back called Mumford, they really liked him and had him pegged as having a good future with them. Sydney thought he would be good for them, made him an offer Geelong couldn't match and who would have guessed, he ended up at Sydney.

I hope we are into Bolton & anyone else that could help us improve.

No point adding more nqr's...

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Should be all over Bolton & Butler.

Plenty of room to move with at least another 5 to 7 trades/delists in the present list 

Club needs an immediate bounce back from the 2019 horribilis and the minimum pass for any sort of cred in 2020 is finals with at least one finals win.

Wont happen if we don't get serious on the present list cull and 'ready made' upgrades to help take us there.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 hours ago, rjay said:

 

There was a player at Geelong a while back called Mumford, they really liked him and had him pegged as having a good future with them. Sydney thought he would be good for them, made him an offer Geelong couldn't match and who would have guessed, he ended up at Sydney.

I hope we are into Bolton & anyone else that could help us improve.

No point adding more nqr's...

No point keeping the ones we have either Rjay.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Definitely worth a look however he's good as the 2nd or 3rd small forward in a side that applies good forward pressure and chips in for a goal or two. Can't expect him to be our #1 small forward option

[Red and Blue realist 2,058]

I know ANB has had a down year, but if you compare their best years 2017 for Butler and 2018 for ANB, you'd take ANB. While ANB has been more consistent over their careers. They are roughly the same age and got taken in the same draft. ANB doesn't kick as many goals, but Butler doesn't kick all that many either, while ANB has the better tank so gets around the ground more. I just don't see the need for Butler. Bolton is the better get, but I doubt we'll be in the mix, he'll either stay or head back to WA.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

26 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I know ANB has had a down year, but if you compare their best years 2017 for Butler and 2018 for ANB, you'd take ANB. While ANB has been more consistent over their careers. They are roughly the same age and got taken in the same draft. ANB doesn't kick as many goals, but Butler doesn't kick all that many either, while ANB has the better tank so gets around the ground more. I just don't see the need for Butler. Bolton is the better get, but I doubt we'll be in the mix, he'll either stay or head back to WA.

We know stats don't tell the whole story, but it's an interesting one all the same.  You would like to think that Butler puts more pressure on, but last year ANB laid 118 tackles, and was still able to lay another 50 this year.  He isn't a good kick for goal, and we know he is quite error prone at the best of times, but it seems Butler doesn't do much better than him when you just look at the stats.

I'd still have Butler over Spargo, Lockhart and C Wagner though.

[Red and Blue realist 2,058]

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

We know stats don't tell the whole story, but it's an interesting one all the same.  You would like to think that Butler puts more pressure on, but last year ANB laid 118 tackles, and was still able to lay another 50 this year.  He isn't a good kick for goal, and we know he is quite error prone at the best of times, but it seems Butler doesn't do much better than him when you just look at the stats.

I'd still have Butler over Spargo, Lockhart and C Wagner though.

I know it's easy to cheery pick stats, but ask any tigers fan and they'll tell you that Butler goes missing for long periods during games, which given he's a pressure forward as compared to a goal kicking cumber just isn't good enough. Butler and ANB are the closet comparison we have in our team and I'd take ANB. I think Lockhart could end up being a true crumber with a full pre-season while Spargo might end up in defense. Either way if we chase Butler it'll be for nothing more than depth as compared to someone who'd come in and make an instant impact in the best 22. He's not really worth anymore than a 4th rounder, but assume there'd be a team out there who'd pay more than that.  

[Mickey 4,731]

Interesting people are calling for us to recruit Bolton. All of my Tiger mates can't stand him; wasnt sure what they were on about ubtil i watched him closely for a couple of games. Tries to do the mercurial but just butchers the ball, and burns teammates constantly

[Mental Demons 136]

Butler has genuine grunt but goes missing would be an upgrade if he comes cheap enough. Would offer more than many on our list who are worse at doing the same job.

 

[Redleg 41,451]

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

We know stats don't tell the whole story, but it's an interesting one all the same.  You would like to think that Butler puts more pressure on, but last year ANB laid 118 tackles, and was still able to lay another 50 this year.  He isn't a good kick for goal, and we know he is quite error prone at the best of times, but it seems Butler doesn't do much better than him when you just look at the stats.

I'd still have Butler over Spargo, Lockhart and C Wagner though.

Most of ANB's tackles are when he is the third player in, after one of his team mates has the opponent on the grass.

His actual tackles, one on one, are usually ineffective.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

15 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Most of ANB's tackles are when he is the third player in, after one of his team mates has the opponent on the grass.

His actual tackles, one on one, are usually ineffective.

Players don’t accrue tackle stats if they’re not the first player to tackle the person with the ball. The stat is only given to one player who is obviously the first to lay the tackle. I agree that his tackles are usually ineffective though. 

[Redleg 41,451]

32 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Players don’t accrue tackle stats if they’re not the first player to tackle the person with the ball. The stat is only given to one player who is obviously the first to lay the tackle. I agree that his tackles are usually ineffective though. 

Thanks Ethan I didn't know that. Is there a stat for effective tackles? What is the basis of a stat for a tackle, do you just have to touch them or bring them down?

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

1.2 goals per game as a small forward is hardly terrible. Worth a look. 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Thanks Ethan I didn't know that. Is there a stat for effective tackles? What is the basis of a stat for a tackle, do you just have to touch them or bring them down?

The AFL’s definition of a tackle is below. I only knew that the initial tackler (as long as the initial tackle falls into the definition of a tackle) is the one one given the stat because I was watching a game one day and there appeared to be many more tackles in it than what the stats stated. 

When a player stops an opposition player with possession of the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the opposition's disposal. The tackler's action must change the course of play.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay