Hayden Young (Drafted by Fremantle)

[DeeSpencer 25,499]

I watched the NAB league highlights of his games in rounds 14/16/17 and honestly I was a bit underwhelmed. The first 2 he played a mix of half back and on ball, the 3rd one it was some forward and on ball.

The kicking is legit. Even under pressure he has excellent vision and can nail a kick. And he has easy distance. The right foot is steady as well.

But he's a long way from a midfielder as is and possibly ever - which overall is fine but points to some flaws in his game. Under any kind of pressure his handballs get smothered or intercepted (likes to attempt around the corner handballs) and he doesn't seem to create space by accelerating through a stoppage or drawing a tackle. It's either there is a quick handball option - which he'll take - or he's in a bit of trouble. He'll put his head over it and win the ball and he's a willing tackler but he doesn't look like a natural at either of those skills.

Took a number of nice marks throughout the game but they were largely floating in or across uncontested, there was little that looked like a strong aerial game that would hold up at AFL level. At 188cm if he's going to be a true intercept mark or defender capable of playing on taller opponents then he has to get off the ground in contests and he rarely jumped more than what seemed like a foot off the ground. There wasn't one pack crashing spoil yet alone a pack crashing mark. Some nice intercepts floating in but against what quality coming the other way?

The lack of top end pace and lack of strength both concern me. Without either of those how are you winning a stack of contests at AFL level? 

A freakish kick who can drill it anywhere up to 60m and under pressure, but not the all round package. A more technically correct and more well rounded Matt Suckling but not anything close to Luke Hodge.

[Mach5 4,767]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Hayden Young

Young excelled as a HBF this year, as an elite intercept marker and best rebounding kick in this draft class. His kicking has great penetration is reliable both long and short. Young also did stints in the midfield after the championships to prove his inside ball-winning ability and versatility to recruiters. He performed well both inside and outside, cementing his top 5 draft status. Young projects as a future club captain and elite half back flanker.

Position - Half back flank, inside midfield, outside midfield.

Leadership - Elite, captain of his club, good on-field general and well-spoken. Likened to a young Luke Hodge.
Kicking - Elite (best kick in the draft)
Handballing - Good, usually to teammates advantage
Intercept marking - Elite (top 3 in this draft)
Agility - Elite (top ranked player at the draft combine)
Speed - Good
Tackling - Good-very good
Aggression - Elite, has mongrel in him
Production - Very good-elite, disposal average towards the high end of players this year

 

It's worth remembering that "elite" in this instance means elite for a junior in this draft class.
Not elite at AFL level (at least just yet).

[Lord Travis 10,698]

37 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

It's worth remembering that "elite" in this instance means elite for a junior in this draft class.
Not elite at AFL level (at least just yet).

Obviously, as none of these kids have been drafted yet!

Rating attributes based on available evidence, Noah Anderson and Hayden Young appear to have the most elite attributes and the highest chance of becoming good AFL players from this draft class.

[picket fence 17,073]

19 hours ago, FarNorthernD said:

Was that James Strauss’s first game when the Melbourne coaching staff decided to give him the kicking out duties against a rampaging Hawthorn side? His first game. 

James also had a shoulder reconstruction, ankle and leg problems and that completely sickening injury where he broke both his tibula and fibula. Later he had his face kicked in by Campbell Brown when playing against the Suns. 
 

Who knows James may have not been up to an AFL career but I think it would be fair to say he didn’t get a fair run at it.

I didn't say he lacked courage or couldn't play a bit, I saw enough of him to make the judgement that he did not have the elite kicking skills some on this site suggested! That's all!!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I watched the NAB league highlights of his games in rounds 14/16/17 and honestly I was a bit underwhelmed. The first 2 he played a mix of half back and on ball, the 3rd one it was some forward and on ball.

The kicking is legit. Even under pressure he has excellent vision and can nail a kick. And he has easy distance. The right foot is steady as well.

But he's a long way from a midfielder as is and possibly ever - which overall is fine but points to some flaws in his game. Under any kind of pressure his handballs get smothered or intercepted (likes to attempt around the corner handballs) and he doesn't seem to create space by accelerating through a stoppage or drawing a tackle. It's either there is a quick handball option - which he'll take - or he's in a bit of trouble. He'll put his head over it and win the ball and he's a willing tackler but he doesn't look like a natural at either of those skills.

Took a number of nice marks throughout the game but they were largely floating in or across uncontested, there was little that looked like a strong aerial game that would hold up at AFL level. At 188cm if he's going to be a true intercept mark or defender capable of playing on taller opponents then he has to get off the ground in contests and he rarely jumped more than what seemed like a foot off the ground. There wasn't one pack crashing spoil yet alone a pack crashing mark. Some nice intercepts floating in but against what quality coming the other way?

The lack of top end pace and lack of strength both concern me. Without either of those how are you winning a stack of contests at AFL level? 

A freakish kick who can drill it anywhere up to 60m and under pressure, but not the all round package. A more technically correct and more well rounded Matt Suckling but not anything close to Luke Hodge.

A fair summary of his impact at this year's Nats DS.  Which is why i changed my mind and decided on at least putting a bid on Henry with 3.

Personally i think Ash is as good as Young (in terms of defending capability/impact) and possibly a better spoiler / intercept mark, albeit he tends to use his line breaking pace and change of direction to move the pill rather than cutting a swathe through a crowd with pin point kicking as many have no doubt already covered on here.

Young certainly a brilliant kick (and handballer) at u18 level.  One of the best distributors i witnessed and part of that skill appears to come from a very quick mind/football brain in what for many would be a bit of a crisis, often resulting in another turnover.  Does he turn it over and make poor decisions?  Like all young fellas of course.  Does he lack athletisicm / reading the ball in the air vs say a Day, DeKoning, Gould and to a lessor extent Ash?  Sure.  But to me it seems he does turn it over less often than some of his peers when he does get the intercept if that is any consolation.

What he lacks in pace and burst speed he often makes up for with his lightning decision making and precision disposal.  That precision kicking can often open up the whole field and change the momentum of a match, breaking it open with one laser like 40 meter(ish) pass.  No better example than the one shown in the highlights reel at the end of the u18 final.  But there were a few others in the Nats.  He might have an ordinary game at AFL at times but it might be 6 to 8 telling kicks that on the day might help turn or win a match on the death.

I suspect he might become the sort of player you might say "well he was ok, didn't really star, but how were those three kicks he sliced the opp up with from HB that resulted in two crucial goals to help us win the match in the third/last quarter".

After watching the Nats a second time i vm like the cut of Ash's jib also and would be more than happy if we landed him at 8 if we ended up going for someone other than Young at 3.  He is the sort of defender player we will notice in a big way.  Plenty of line breaking highlights and might also be involved in a number of significant runs/plays where you will be sitting up noticing and ranking him as a big game/impact defender, but in the end he may have a similar volume of score involvements vs say Young.  Similar impact if you like but different ways of getting there.

Just my amature take from the armchair which will probably be completely incorrect after we re-assess them in 5 years time!

[spirit of norm smith 16,304]

Elite kick. Local boy. Ready to play round 1 2020. Leadership. Aerial skills. Perfect wing/half back. 
 

He is the best option at the first live pick. 
 

 Our ball use has been horrible. Turnovers kill us. Why would we turn down selecting a kid who delivers the footy and would become our best kick right away. 

[Mach5 4,767]

13 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Elite kick. Local boy. Ready to play round 1 2020. Leadership. Aerial skills. Perfect wing/half back. 
 

He is the best option at the first live pick. 
 

 Our ball use has been horrible. Turnovers kill us. Why would we turn down selecting a kid who delivers the footy and would become our best kick right away. 

 

One good kick is not going to be a difference maker, and you’re placing too much emphasis on how valuable this could be to our side’s performance.

[trout 385]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:59 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

The other reason why I think we are leaning towards Jackson with this pick is a half back flanker who use the footy fine are easy to find. Marty Hore, Luke Ryan, Zac Williams Tom Stewart are just a few gems who were all half back flanker that were picked late in the draft.

A player in the caliber of Brodie Grundy and Max Gawn are very rare to find. It's no coincidence that the past 3 years these two have dominated All Australian selection. Grundy and Gawn are in their own league. Tim English will be right up there in about 2 years time.

Bring in Luke Jackson means we are set for another 10 years in our ruck department and we can focus on other holes on our list for the next few years.

Premiership ruckman are also easy to find from other clubs, in the last ten years 11 out of the 16 ruckman have come from other clubs. Also in the last 20 years not one All Australian ruckman has won the premiership in that year. Clubs don’t need a gun ruckman, they need a better than average one and guns on every other line. So I hope the club steers clear of a ruckman with a top ten pick. 

[dazzledavey36 54,345]

6 minutes ago, trout said:

Premiership ruckman are also easy to find from other clubs, in the last ten years 11 out of the 16 ruckman have come from other clubs. Also in the last 20 years not one All Australian ruckman has won the premiership in that year. Clubs don’t need a gun ruckman, they need a better than average one and guns on every other line. So I hope the club steers clear of a ruckman with a top ten pick. 

He's coming to the club to start his career as a key forward. 

We have Weideman (still question marks over him) and McDonald as our two genuine key forwards. That's it.

What happens if he has more success as a forward then being a ruckman?

[trout 385]

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's coming to the club to start his career as a key forward. 

We have Weideman (still question marks over him) and McDonald as our two genuine key forwards. That's it.

What happens if he has more success as a forward then being a ruckman?

If the club thinks he can be a gun forward I will back the club in on that, but I will not be happy if we recruit him as a ruckman or ruckman / forward. Yeah I am with you are key forward depth is very thin and question marks on it.

[Ted Lasso 19,334]

I'm really torn on this one because i think the potential upside of Jackson is incredible. we could be looking at a 50 goal a year key forward, who takes the pressure off Tommy and a relief ruckman that allows us to dominate the ruck for entire games without letting up. 

given we are much better than a 17th team i see logic in rolling the dice there. 

my big concerns are, go home culture, using a pick 3 on an interestate player. i think he's gone before pick 8  and if we trade pick 3 i reckon the Giants grab him. 

Hayden Young is a player who immediately improves our side and offers multiple attributes we desperately need and is a young leader. but i think there are a lot more of this type around than Luke Jacksons. 

very glad i'm not the one who has to make the decision. 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

37 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I'm really torn on this one because i think the potential upside of Jackson is incredible. we could be looking at a 50 goal a year key forward, who takes the pressure off Tommy and a relief ruckman that allows us to dominate the ruck for entire games without letting up. 

given we are much better than a 17th team i see logic in rolling the dice there. 

my big concerns are, go home culture, using a pick 3 on an interestate player. i think he's gone before pick 8  and if we trade pick 3 i reckon the Giants grab him. 

Hayden Young is a player who immediately improves our side and offers multiple attributes we desperately need and is a young leader. but i think there are a lot more of this type around than Luke Jacksons. 

very glad i'm not the one who has to make the decision. 

Yes, agree.

Over the last month I've gone through about 4 or 5 players who I was certain would be picked at 3.

Not an easy job

[Demon Disciple 12,068]

13 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Yes, agree.

Over the last month I've gone through about 4 or 5 players who I was certain would be picked at 3.

Not an easy job

This is where we have to put our faith in JT. I'd much rather the choice be in his hands than BP.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's coming to the club to start his career as a key forward. 

We have Weideman (still question marks over him) and McDonald as our two genuine key forwards. That's it.

What happens if he has more success as a forward then being a ruckman?

You speak as if we already have him pencilled DD.

I hope he is a very quick and good learner as he is a ruckman.

And who would he be learning from i wonder seeing as we (apparantly) have no forward line coach.  I guess he could improvise.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[dazzledavey36 54,345]

9 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

You speak as if we already have him pencilled DD.

I hope he is a very quick and good learner as he is a ruckman.

And who would he be learning from i wonder seeing as we (apparantly) have no forward line coach.  I guess he could improvise.

Not at all RR. But I think it's well known now that it's between him and Young and Green to a degree. 

I genuinely bet we are still simmering over who to select with pick 3.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Not at all RR. But I think it's well known now that it's between him and Young and Green to a degree. 

I genuinely bet we are still simmering over who to select with pick 3.

Watched three matches of the Allies in the u18s DD and while he is tough in the clinches and not a bad distributor on occasions (mostly by hand pretty bog ordinary by foot) and will no doubt make a handy inside mid (hopefully for GWS) i wouldn't be upset to miss him in the draft.

I'm sure there's a fair bit of upside for whoever lands him but would much rather target Kemp with 8 (if we are needing more mid type players) who to me appears to offer a tad more mobility, versatility and aerial power.  But even then i wouldn't be overly excited.

Green a nice player but a slower/ploddier version of Rowell imv and as a result tends to get caught / trapped inside a bit too often (even at u18 level).  A poor man's Clarry if you like with even less break away speed.

I'm not sure why we would target any mids with 3 in this draft as there are no stand outs by foot or anyone with any outstanding X factor in terms of agility/burst speed or goal kicking prowess outside of Rowell and to a lessor degree Serong (goal kicking forward option).  You have to ask why would we want to target sub standard mids who aren't very good by foot to add to an already inside biased mid field also not so great by foot at the moment.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,363]

Article on the AFL website about Young. 30 seconds of footage of one of his trademark passes, worth a look. 

[RDBhero 65]

13 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's coming to the club to start his career as a key forward. 

We have Weideman (still question marks over him) and McDonald as our two genuine key forwards. That's it.

What happens if he has more success as a forward then being a ruckman?

Agree

[DeeZone 9,707]

I don't usually get emotionally involved in "picks" but I will be very, very disappointed if we don't take Young with pick 3, he in my opinion and plenty of others on here is what the Dee's are crying out for off the half back line.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Its Time for Another 4,196]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Not at all RR. But I think it's well known now that it's between him and Young and Green to a degree. 

I genuinely bet we are still simmering over who to select with pick 3.

DD you seem to have a high opinion of Jackson. I haven't seen enough to form a valid opinion. All I've seen in some very short clips is some very raw ruck work and not much else. Others have said he's a project player who doesn't have great skills or forward craft but is an elite athlete with great follow up work.  Can you give an idea what you have seen that makes you and so many others rate him so highly.

We've only had one year off in over five years from the go home circus that Hogan subjected us to.  Does that concern you at all or do you have any information that makes you think it won't be a factor  It will never go away unless he does what Hogan never did and make a long term commitment 

IMHO Young looks a safer pick at this point and offers something we desperately need. Gawny's 27 in 5 years a lot of this core group are going to be the wrong end of their careers. I don't think now is the time to take on a project player who'll take 4-5 years to develop if at all. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by It's Time

[Ted Lasso 19,334]

I've changed my mind on that pick 3 about 45 times so far. 

but i think i've landed in my own mind on the preference on Young over Jackson

and with pick 8 preference order of 

Jackson

Serong

Ash

Flanders

depending on who is there

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I've changed my mind on that pick 3 about 45 times so far. 

but i think i've landed in my own mind on the preference on Young over Jackson

and with pick 8 preference order of 

Jackson

Serong

Ash

Flanders

depending on who is there

That's alot of pondering PO!

[Ted Lasso 19,334]

3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

That's alot of pondering PO!

Too much. my preference at the moment is Young and Serong. Serong could help fill the need for a small forward and can rotate through the middle and Young improves our wing/half backs stocks. 

[Demon Disciple 12,068]

7 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Article on the AFL website about Young. 30 seconds of footage of one of his trademark passes, worth a look. 

That video at the 12 second mark of his kick has allayed some of my fears of him being without a decent right foot, it'd be better than half the list on their preferred sides (admittedly just the one kick for sample size).

[Lord Travis 10,698]

7 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

That video at the 12 second mark of his kick has allayed some of my fears of him being without a decent right foot, it'd be better than half the list on their preferred sides (admittedly just the one kick for sample size).

You’re not wrong that his non preferred is better than most of our players preferred! He’s going to be a ripper. Hopefully he plays for us!