POSTGAME: Rd 11 vs Adelaide

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,877]

3 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Totally disagree with this. And exactly what would you expect the leaders to do? Coach him in ball drop, how far his run up should be? No, the poor execution of that kick rests solely with Weideman. For Christ’s sake, he marked it 20 metres out and missed by a long way. I just wonder whether it is “ burning in his guts” like Max said it was in his after the game. I doubt it, because I just don’t think he wants to be a Melbourne player. Of all the players this year, I would say this guy has been the biggest disappointment. 

Agree Re the set shot thing.  I mean Weid is normally a pretty good set shot at goal and doesn't really need a Viney getting in his ear.  It could have had the opposite effect of putting him off and/or eating into the 30 seconds he had for his set shot routine.  Weids nailed a much harder shot from around 50 out against Sydney earlier in the year when they were comming at us in the last quarter.  I also remember a really young Salem slotting through a goal against the Bombers to effectively win us the game a number of years ago.  Weid is a professional footballer and I'm certain he has had pressure shots on goal before, so I'd think he would generally know how to handle the situation, but he just didn't on this occasion.  In the grand scheme of things,  I'd rather Weid miss this shot, learn from it and nail it for us when we have something more worthwhile ridding on it in another season.

I hope you're wrong about Weid flying the nest though.

[bobby1554 1,261]

3 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Agree Re the set shot thing.  I mean Weid is normally a pretty good set shot at goal and doesn't really need a Viney getting in his ear.  It could have had the opposite effect of putting him off and/or eating into the 30 seconds he had for his set shot routine.  Weids nailed a much harder shot from around 50 out against Sydney earlier in the year when they were comming at us in the last quarter.  I also remember a really young Salem slotting through a goal against the Bombers to effectively win us the game a number of years ago.  Weid is a professional footballer and I'm certain he has had pressure shots on goal before, so I'd think he would generally know how to handle the situation, but he just didn't on this occasion.  In the grand scheme of things,  I'd rather Weid miss this shot, learn from it and nail it for us when we have something more worthwhile ridding on it in another season.

I hope you're wrong about Weid flying the nest though.

Can almost guarantee it. He was sniffing around last year. We should move him on, although his currency is a bit like the Aussie dollar at the moment.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,877]

4 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Can almost guarantee it. He was sniffing around last year. We should move him on, although his currency is a bit like the Aussie dollar at the moment.

Alot of players have a good look around  these days though it's all part of the game.  Doesn't mean all of the go.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,877]

Re the Weid miss I"m just as disappointed in Smith missing the cider a few minutes prior to Weids and Smith probably had even less pressure on him.  Conversely I was stoked with the poise of Hore slotting through that pearler on the run against the GC a few weeks ago. 

You win some, you loose some, although as we move forward I would like to think that we will develop that confidence and poise that we win more than we loose in this situation.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[dpositive 1,680]

12 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Again, the opposition’s rare accuracy kills is.

We allow opposition players time and space to get balanced while we move it on too quickly even when off balance.

The quick hand off is compounded by the player giving off does not shepherd the player he gives it too creating continuous pressure 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,809]

42 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Totally disagree with this. And exactly what would you expect the leaders to do? Coach him in ball drop, how far his run up should be? No, the poor execution of that kick rests solely with Weideman. For Christ’s sake, he marked it 20 metres out and missed by a long way. I just wonder whether it is “ burning in his guts” like Max said it was in his after the game. I doubt it, because I just don’t think he wants to be a Melbourne player. Of all the players this year, I would say this guy has been the biggest disappointment. 

The guy was in tears!  There’s no doubt at all it was burning in his guts.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

4 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

I can't see where this "good young player" tag comes from re Weideman. He's a 196cm KPF who kicked 10 goals in 10 games in his third season (2018) and just 6 goals in 7 games this year in his fourth. Averaging just 4 marks a game across those two seasons. They are very poor returns in which way you want to slice and dice them. 

As it stands he is not cutting the mustard at AFL level. 

Cool.

Thanks for sharing Steven Wells. I mean u have to have some serious credibility to be writing off 21 yo whos played less then 20 games

Edited June 2, 2019 by Unleash Hell

[dpositive 1,680]

5 hours ago, P-man said:

Have to wonder at what point we conclude this isn’t just about “form” with T Mac.

He’s now attracting the opposition’s best defender and on what we’ve seen this season, he’s well below the standard required for a main target. He’s approaching 27 now. This is as good as it’s gonna get. And we can all see the flaws in his game.

I feel like we need to look elsewhere. Without too much delay. Place a Josh Kennedy or Jeremy Cameron into that side last night and it would’ve been iced well before the final siren.

I’d love him to prove me wrong but my faith in T Mac is fading fast.

Don't disagree and think that we could have the answer within.

Oscar has a reliable disposable efficiency and may be able to convert. Tom has been a defender capable of nullifying big forwards. Just swap em around and see what happens. 

Fritsch to high half forward where his better disposal can be used to better effect.

Not dismayed by last nights performance. We had better players and won except for conversion.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

33 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Cool.

Thanks for sharing Steven Wells. I mean u have to have some serious credibility to be writing off 21 yo whos played less then 20 games

I haven't written him off yet. But I'm not overly impressed, either. What has he actually shown outside of the Geelong final and maybe one or two other games? I hope the club does the right thing and offers a fairly modest contract extension because he is nowhere near the $650/season value his manager touts him as. Try half that at best, for two years max. Don't be surprised if he is in opposition colours next season, either. Definite possibility.

He has played 27 games.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

5 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

I haven't written him off yet. But I'm not overly impressed, either. What has he actually shown outside of the Geelong final and maybe one or two other games? I hope the club does the right thing and offers a fairly modest contract extension because he is nowhere near the $650/season value his manager touts him as. Try half that at best, for two years max. Don't be surprised if he is in opposition colours next season, either. Definite possibility.

He has played 27 games.

Meh.

 

[Laughing Goat 308]

On 6/1/2019 at 9:44 PM, RedButMostlyBlue said:

Ladies and gentlemen, the Melbourne Football Club.

How much is Weid asking for again?

The seven blokes that missed before Weiderman in the last quarter are earning a hell of a lot more......& If they had done there jobs properly then Sam wouldn't have missed I'm sure of that. Maybe you should hang them instead of hanging a kid still finding his way?

 

 

[bing181 9,328]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The strong clubs do not keep making excuses for losses.

Have you seen who we're putting on the park? We're not a strong club, not on the field anyway.

I find this whole discussion ... well, absurd is probably a safe bet. It's as if you can just throw a VFL-level team out there and when they lose you're "making excuses".

You take out your entire first-call back line, you're more likely to lose than win. You play a bunch of 20-gamers in your forward line, you're more likely to lose than win.

Not rocket science.

[Nasher 33,617]

15 hours ago, P-man said:

Have to wonder at what point we conclude this isn’t just about “form” with T Mac.

He’s now attracting the opposition’s best defender and on what we’ve seen this season, he’s well below the standard required for a main target. He’s approaching 27 now. This is as good as it’s gonna get. And we can all see the flaws in his game.

I feel like we need to look elsewhere. Without too much delay. Place a Josh Kennedy or Jeremy Cameron into that side last night and it would’ve been iced well before the final siren.

I’d love him to prove me wrong but my faith in T Mac is fading fast.

The TMac thing is just baffling to me. I just don’t understand what’s happened. The “gets the best defender every week” argument doesn’t come close to explaining it. I know Hogan was in the side last year but TMac kicked 50 goals last year; mediocre forwards don’t do that. He would have been attracting pretty handy defenders last year too.

The gap between quality of this year and last is so wide I can only assume it’s due to something invisible to us on the outer, either injury or something psychological. I just hope whatever it is gets resolved before next season and he comes good again.

[Demon17 5,202]

8 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

The seven blokes that missed before Weiderman in the last quarter are earning a hell of a lot more......& If they had done there jobs properly then Sam wouldn't have missed I'm sure of that. Maybe you should hang them instead of hanging a kid still finding his way?

 

 

Great call LG.  Garlett's easy miss in the game's first minute was deplorable and a scene setter.  Those types of misses should be under the microscope big time. Not   Weid's shot with a wet ball and hardly surprising at that time of night. He will learn.

And while I'm at it, when I see Petracca with an improved technique , then I'll believe the coaching/development team are doing their job. Until then, Trac gets away with murder for a professional sportsman.

[Lucifers Hero 40,358]

8 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

The seven blokes that missed before Weiderman in the last quarter are earning a hell of a lot more......& If they had done there jobs properly then Sam wouldn't have missed I'm sure of that. Maybe you should hang them instead of hanging a kid still finding his way?

Agreed, it shouldn't have been up to Sam.

I was disappointed Max took the kick from nearly 50m with just 3 min to go.  I get that he wanted to show leadership and get the team over the line.  But he has a poor set shot history so the chance of him making it were probably 20:1 or worse.  Wiser to give it off to someone closer/better kick.  It should be one of our 'end game, close score, few minutes left', set plays.  Not suggesting a kick to a pack but a player running past would help. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dr. Gonzo 24,287]

13 hours ago, Nasher said:

It’s part and parcel of the game because we accept it and don’t demand better of ourselves and each other. It doesn’t have to be that way. The idea that it abusing players is inherent as part of being passionate or emotional is just garbage.

It's not abuse to discuss the shortcomings of players. It's been happening for 150 years, good luck with changing it now.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,287]

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

Have you seen who we're putting on the park? We're not a strong club, not on the field anyway.

I find this whole discussion ... well, absurd is probably a safe bet. It's as if you can just throw a VFL-level team out there and when they lose you're "making excuses".

You take out your entire first-call back line, you're more likely to lose than win. You play a bunch of 20-gamers in your forward line, you're more likely to lose than win.

Not rocket science.

So in your mind you don't think we were any hope of winning? Strange considering we would have actually won had Weideman, Smith or any of the other shots at goal in the last quarter been kicked straight

You're confusing a strong club with a strong team.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,287]

37 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The TMac thing is just baffling to me. I just don’t understand what’s happened. The “gets the best defender every week” argument doesn’t come close to explaining it. I know Hogan was in the side last year but TMac kicked 50 goals last year; mediocre forwards don’t do that. He would have been attracting pretty handy defenders last year too.

The gap between quality of this year and last is so wide I can only assume it’s due to something invisible to us on the outer, either injury or something psychological. I just hope whatever it is gets resolved before next season and he comes good again.

He was the main forward in 2017 also when Hogan missed a heap of time with injury/personal issues.

Being the main target doesn't add up as the reason, it's either psychological or physical (his toe injury).

[drdrake 3,187]

9 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

The seven blokes that missed before Weiderman in the last quarter are earning a hell of a lot more......& If they had done there jobs properly then Sam wouldn't have missed I'm sure of that. Maybe you should hang them instead of hanging a kid still finding his way?

 

 

And that doesn't include the dropped chest marks with from players on their own deep inside our forward 50m arc.

O Mac played like a player resigned to the fact that he is now our 5th tall defender behind May, Lever, Frost, Hore and instead of doing what Frost has done and fight for his spot he has just dropped his bundle.  His brother has gone from a bloke that marks everything to a spud.

[Lucifers Hero 40,358]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He was the main forward in 2017 also when Hogan missed a heap of time with injury/personal issues.

Being the main target doesn't add up as the reason, it's either psychological or physical (his toe injury).

Agreed.

I said a few weeks ago he can't jump, can't kick more than 40m and isn't competing in the air to get the ball to ground.  Other worrying trends:

• just isn't getting the ball. 
• has very few shots at goal (8 goals and 9 points in 11 games with 6 goalless games and 3 scoreless games). 
• very little ruckwork which supports the 'he can't jump' question mark and means he is playing fwd nearly the whole game.
• has lost his speed so can't get separation from op or get up and down the ground to help mids.

In the last month or two he has played around 90% game time, sometimes as high as 98%.  This doesn't suggest a physical injury or if he is injured playing him the whole game is poor management and mightily counterproductive. 

After 11 weeks with one good performance it is no longer 'form'.  We desperately need to sort out what is hampering him.  Problem is we don't have any tall fwd depth.  Having said that I haven't favoured playing Preuss but I feel he may be better than Tom until we get Tom 'fit' again.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[leave it to deever 17,517]

15 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

When Sam took that final mark last night, he knew the state of the game and would have been(censored) himself.  I would have expected our “ leaders” to have walked back with him and calmed him down.  But that did not happen and we know the result.  

As soon as he took the mark Viney patted him on the head and walked away, Oliver did the same. Jones was nowhere in sight and didnt make the effort to go to him.

we lack leadership on the field.  

Great post.

[Slartibartfast 17,622]

I’m an unabashed Weideman fan. Instead of concentrating on the missed shot at goal I’m concentrating on the fact that a 21yo key forward was able to take a contested pack mark against strong opposition in the dying moments of a knife edge game. 

Yeh, he missed the shot. I could go back over the years and show you every great player missing from dead in front.

What a shocking moment for the kid and what a great learning experience. Bounce back Sam, you’ve a great opportunity in front of you to become a really good player and I for one am right behind you. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Baghdad Bob

[binman 43,751]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Agreed, it shouldn't have been up to Sam.

I was disappointed Max took the kick from nearly 50m with just 3 min to go.  I get that he wanted to show leadership and get the team over the line.  But he has a poor set shot history so the chance of him making it were probably 20:1 or worse.  Wiser to give it off to someone closer/better kick.  It should be one of our 'end game, close score, few minutes left', set plays.  Not suggesting a kick to a pack but a player running past would help. 

What was frustrating was not so much he took the kick but he turned his back immediately and in doing so ruled out the option of a short kick to a team mate closer to goal. Which I assume is a team rul to do so (look for an option tbat is)

[poita 3,902]

My son's under 9s team won yesterday with a goal after the siren. An eight year old was able to kick straight from 20 metres out to win a game for his team.

Yet we have highly paid professional footballers who can't kick goals from 30 metres out straight in front. I don't blame Weideman, as he at least had a go on Saturday.

The efforts (or lack thereof) of Spargo, both McDonalds, Hannan, Garlett, Smith, Wagner, Stretch and Kennedy-Harris were just abysmal. Oliver and Brayshaw are making a habit of going missing when the heat is on.

Goodwin's selection and coaching were again terrible, but ultimately we lost because the players couldn't or wouldn't execute basic skills at important moments.

Edited June 2, 2019 by poita

[John Demonic 5,850]

4 minutes ago, poita said:

My son's under 9s team won yesterday with a goal after the siren. An eight year old was able to kick straight from 20 metres out to win a game for his team.

The kid had probably been parked in that spot for 2 hours, fresh as a daisy