2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

It depends on what drugs you’re talking about legalising, people on heroin just pass out, they don’t want to fight. Ice has the exact opposite effect on people. Ask any copper, Paramedic or first responder what their thoughts are on legalising ice and you’ll get the same answer. 

It's a hard pill to swallow (ha!) and goes against most peoples intuition on the subject, but we are seeing more and more examples that legalization/decriminalization when combined with targeted mental health frameworks to support addicts actually reduces addiction and overall usage. 

People take drugs for a variety of reasons, but usually it comes down to something pretty simple - their life sucks. They are unfulfilled, be it a meaningless job they hate, a family who is unloving or distant, or no family at all (just to name a few). These people need an escape, which is quite a natural reaction for a human being who has the capacity for this type of awareness. Some choose escape with alcohol, some with prescribed opioids, others with meth. Until we understand and treat the underlying reasons that trigger substance abuse for these people, no amount of policing and litigation will ever amount to positive change. We need to think outside the box, because at this point we are just banging our heads against a wall and expecting different results. 

Legalization to reduce usage is a bold idea, but we are starting to see really positive results in those countries brave enough to try it. Decades of prohibition indoctrination has most people blind to these new concepts, but at this point we need to either try something radical which may work, or continue on the current path which DEFINITELY doesn't work. Small chance of a result is better than no chance, right? 

Edited March 6, 20196 yr by Smokey

19 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Some interesting discussion here.

Genuine question ET:  Which drugs would you legalise and which would you not?

Possibly cannabis.

The stuff we see today, of which a large amount is grown locally by Vietnamese syndicates, is extremely potent and ridiculously sticky. They’re also known to lace it with meth or other dangerous chemicals to make it more addictive. 

Needless to say, legally grown and prescribed (or sold OTC) cannabis would be much ‘cleaner’ and safer. 

Edited March 6, 20196 yr by Ethan Tremblay

3 minutes ago, Smokey said:

It's a hard pill to swallow (ha!) and goes against most peoples intuition on the subject, but we are seeing more and more examples that legalization/decriminalization when combined with targeted mental health frameworks to support addicts actually reduces addiction and overall usage. 

People take drugs for a variety of reasons, but usually it comes down to something pretty simple - their life sucks. They are unfulfilled, be it a meaningless job they hate, a family who is unloving or distant, or no family at all (just to name a few). These people need an escape, which is quite a natural reaction for a human being who has the capacity for this type of awareness. Some choose escape with alcohol, some with prescribed opioids, others with meth. Until we understand and treat the underlying reasons that trigger substance abuse for these people, no amount of policing and litigation will ever amount to positive change. We need to think outside the box, because at this point we are just banging our heads against a wall and expecting different results. 

Legalization to reduce usage is a bold idea, but we are starting to see really positive results in those countries brave enough to try it. Decades of prohibition indoctrination has most people blind to these new concepts, but at this point we need to either try something radical which may work, or continue on the current path which DEFINITELY doesn't work. Small chance of a result is better than no chance, right? 

The other issue is that there is huge difference between use  and abuse. 

That’s the thing with meth, there’s not really such a thing as a casual user. Most people get hooked after their first hit and therefore most abuse it. 

Anyway I’ll leave it at that, I think it’s a very relevant discussion and enjoy reading posters different points of view. 

Edited March 6, 20196 yr by Ethan Tremblay

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

That’s the thing with meth, there’s not really such a thing as a casual user. Most people get hooked after their first hit and therefore most abuse it. 

Anyway I’ll leave it at that, I think it’s a very relevant discussion and enjoy reading posters different points of view. 

Agree, having worked extremely closely with Police, Ambo's and even firey's here in my job, they all say the same as your experience, Meth is one hit and your hooked. The danger they become too all around means legalising it would be asking for trouble. As you stated the issue even with Cannabis is the drug syndicates now lace it with meth to get the full addiction so they come back for more. Legalising dope may mean a cleaner dose as you mentioned when manufactured through regulated organisations, but will it stop the progression to the illegal laced doses? Most addicts start at alcohol, then try dope and just keep looking for the bigger high trying new drugs to get a bigger high again. I agree that is not all, but even dope is to a large extent a gateway drug in my view and that is a risk of it being legalised.

The Meth hook is also why the scum bag dealers hang around footy clubs especially in regional areas, give them a free hit and have a customer for life! 

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

That’s the thing with meth, there’s not really such a thing as a casual user. Most people get hooked after their first hit and therefore most abuse it. 

Anyway I’ll leave it at that, I think it’s a very relevant discussion and enjoy reading posters different points of view. 

There is no doubt to the addictive qualities of meth, good luck finding someone that will argue you on that point. 

My point is a simple one though - the current system for dealing with drug abuse clearly isn’t working (it never has actually) and we as a society need to start questioning the value of our current methodology and open our minds to alternate concepts. And if we can’t do that, at least recognise the data that is beginning to exist that favours as far more progressive approach. 

6 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Possibly cannabis.

The stuff we see today, of which a large amount is grown locally by Vietnamese syndicates, is extremely potent and ridiculously sticky. They’re also known to lace it with meth or other dangerous chemicals to make it more addictive. 

Needless to say, legally grown and prescribed (or sold OTC) cannabis would be much ‘cleaner’ and safer. 

And they could breed out the stronger THC genes,  that have been deliberately hybridised into some modern day strains of Cannabis.

 

THC is the psychoactive part... and many of the other Cannabinoids are Anti-Psychoactive.

These stronger hybridised strains are the ones giving cannabis the danger status.  Re mental illness.  Ironically other Cannabinoids from the cannabis plant is being used for mental illness with very positive results.

 

Messing with Natures balance... seems to always to end in tears.

 

 

4 hours ago, Spud said:

Legalising dope may mean a cleaner dose as you mentioned when manufactured through regulated organisations, but will it stop the progression to the illegal laced doses? Most addicts start at alcohol, then try dope and just keep looking for the bigger high trying new drugs to get a bigger high again. I agree that is not all, but even dope is to a large extent a gateway drug in my view and that is a risk of it being legalised. 

Social environments are gateways to drugs. these days. in my lifetime.

 

Maybe the importance of money in our lives and the sso c alled importance of money and wealth. has  lot to answer for in all this unhappiness.

... and as we know,  the church as well, has been a let down.

 

All leaders around the world have been let downs mostly,  in many ways......  Power corrupts.   Whether it be an arrogance in footy terms....  or in leading a Nation, or a Church.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyHN3LoRJ4

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkgkThdzX-8

.

Edited March 6, 20196 yr by DV8

If they were true leaders at AFL house, they’d all take the test in the interest of the game before the players and announce, yep this is what we’re about, this is what we believe in - well, true leaders that is.... ?

Edited March 6, 20196 yr by DeezNuts

8 hours ago, DeezNuts said:

If they were true leaders at AFL house, they’d all take the test in the interest of the game before the players and announce, yep this is what we’re about, this is what we believe in - well, true leaders that is.... ?

The trouble is, where does one stop? True leaders would donate blood; true leaders would sleep at the G for the homeless; true leaders would pick up rubbish on Clean Up Australia Day. Nevertheless, I concede that as the drugs policy is the AFL's, I think you make a point and if I were an AFL Commissioner I would agree to being drug tested under the same scheme (ie, randomly - which means it wouldn't necessarily be done "before the players")

16 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

That’s the thing with meth, there’s not really such a thing as a casual user. Most people get hooked after their first hit and therefore most abuse it. 

Anyway I’ll leave it at that, I think it’s a very relevant discussion and enjoy reading posters different points of view. 

I had a suspicion you are a copper: the moustache gives you away.

I can’t believe Ethan’s a cop.

I may need to get back on the Bath Salts.

1 hour ago, Biffen said:

I can’t believe Ethan’s a cop.

I may need to get back on the Bath Salts.

Unless you are supplying to WA, I think you are safe from his clutches Biff. 

 

I like to think of myself as more of a Sherriff. 

Edited March 7, 20196 yr by Ethan Tremblay

3 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I like to think of myself as more of a Sherriff. 

 

29 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

 

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I like to think of myself as more of a Sherriff. 

 

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I like to think of myself as more of a Sherriff. 

 

Or maybe this Sherrif... er, Sharif...

3 hours ago, Biffen said:

I can’t believe Ethan’s a cop.

I may need to get back on the Bath Salts.

Please allow us to drug test them first...

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I like to think of myself as more of a Sherriff. 

When was the last time you was drug tested?

 

I actually don’t care. As long as they’re not harming anyone, who cares - we’ve turned everything into a tedious nanny state, and they’re probably the fittest dudes on the planet. Good luck to them - I enjoy watching them play footy.

I expect many here like horse racing. I’m not into it, but that’s simply because I find it boring. I expect many here find it amazing. Cop a tip, it’s absolutely corrupt. And I know this from the inside of the marquee.

It’s all seriously manipulated. The best trainers, the leading horses - they’re all on the gear. They go to the States twice a year to see where it’s all at. They’re in front of the testing, but rest assured - in a game of 1%s, you’re not mucking around with organic wheat grass and then ignoring the juice. If you do, you lose races. It’s a simple equation.

IMO this is far worse than young successful sporty kids seeking to have fun.

 

Edited March 7, 20196 yr by Ron Burgundy

3 hours ago, dieter said:

When was the last time you was drug tested?

 

Two weeks ago. All clear. 

6 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Two weeks ago. All clear. 

Great, now you can seriously get on it for a few weeks.

I think as far as drugs in the AFL goes, the 'crap life' thesis can't be used as a general principle as much @Smokey

The stuff they are on tends to be either party drugs or coke. The reason a lot of them get on it is that the physical come down compared to booze can be less of a drag (albeit it does create a shortage of certain neurotransmitters that make you feel like absolute [censored] when you do come down).

The reality is, despite the belief that the commercial networks and the Herald Sun would like to push, that drug use among the monied classes in the CBD is pretty bloody rampant. The issue is one of users of more 'street' drugs being less equipped to cope and using stuff that is pretty damn vicious. As Ethan said, meth is a horrid drug and it's users are more likely to find trouble (as in fights and accidents) than someone popping disco bickies (though that can bring much different and serious dangers depending on the quality of what you are using). As such, most of the harm prevention paradigm isn't as applicable to most AFL players in my opinion.

That being said, I've never been a fan of the 'throw the book at them' approach and people who push that are just usually looking for self promotion. Or are just intellectually lazy.

 

 

Edited March 7, 20196 yr by Hillary Bray

9 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I actually don’t care. As long as they’re not harming anyone, who cares - we’ve turned everything into a tedious nanny state, and they’re probably the fittest dudes on the planet. Good luck to them - I enjoy watching them play footy.

I expect many here like horse racing. I’m not into it, but that’s simply because I find it boring. I expect many here find it amazing. Cop a tip, it’s absolutely corrupt. And I know this from the inside of the marquee.

It’s all seriously manipulated. The best trainers, the leading horses - they’re all on the gear. They go to the States twice a year to see where it’s all at. They’re in front of the testing, but rest assured - in a game of 1%s, you’re not mucking around with organic wheat grass and then ignoring the juice. If you do, you lose races. It’s a simple equation.

IMO this is far worse than young successful sporty kids seeking to have fun.

 

Sooooo, AFL footballers should not be drug tested because the horses get away with it? Righto.