Aaron vandenBerg not going - signs a new deal!!!

[John Demonic 4,981]

AVB + Tyson 

 

Z. Jones + 3rd round pick

 

They need inside mids to release Parker, Heeney and others to positional areas. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by johndemonic

[Willmoy1947 3,871]

5 hours ago, Demons11 said:

[censored] weak if he leaves.  Looked after him for 2 years whilst on the sidelines 

Just as well he isn't a horse.....

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

26 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Took forever to get the midgits  who get knocked aside by mobs like Hawthorn, WCE , Sydney  off our list, looks like we can’t help ourselves,  filling up again. Garlett, ( Gone, but still contracted) Johnston, ( ?) Spargo, Jones ( just about gone) and the young prospect coming. 

Under 185 you need  speed, heaps of tricks and 2 goals min a week IMO

Kent and AVB decent losses. At first pass doesn’t look great to me, however we’ve seen Taylor magic before.

 

Tom Mitchell just won the Brownlow at 181cm and Richmond won the flag with Rioli (179), Shane Edwards (182), Lambert (178) and Butler (182). Of course little guys have to be quick, but small pressure forwards aren't a liability they are a must and smaller mids who get the ball from the deck are back in fashion after teams loaded up on 190cm Fyfe like bulls and became too slow.

Vanders will be a loss if he goes, but the best way to maximise Gawn, Oliver, Gus, Petracca and Harmes will be with some run, pressure and skill to go with them. I love Vanders because he brings some size and grunt, but he also brings tackle pressure and run like a smaller player.

[Ted Lasso 17,318]

Gotta do what’s best for his family as sad as it would be to see him go! 

[Deeoldfart 7,864]

5 hours ago, Demons11 said:

[censored] weak if he leaves.  Looked after him for 2 years whilst on the sidelines 

I'd actually like our Club to be seen as thoughtful and compassionate towards its employees, especially in unforeseen circumstances like those that AVB has found himself in.  IMO, along with being successful, this is one of the important 'measures' of a true 'destination club'.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Deeoldfart

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

36 minutes ago, johndemonic said:

AVB + Tyson 

 

Z. Jones + 3rd round pick

 

They need inside mids to release Parker, Heeney and others to positional areas. 

Zak Jones is a scrubber

[Dockett 32 1,213]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Tom Mitchell just won the Brownlow at 181cm and Richmond won the flag with Rioli (179), Shane Edwards (182), Lambert (178) and Butler (182). Of course little guys have to be quick, but small pressure forwards aren't a liability they are a must and smaller mids who get the ball from the deck are back in fashion after teams loaded up on 190cm Fyfe like bulls and became too slow.

Vanders will be a loss if he goes, but the best way to maximise Gawn, Oliver, Gus, Petracca and Harmes will be with some run, pressure and skill to go with them. I love Vanders because he brings some size and grunt, but he also brings tackle pressure and run like a smaller player.

Mitchell is pure A grade and Rioli a master. Richmond players fast and with tricks. Other than Garlett,  the little blokes on  our list  ( Viney, Jones, Johnston , JKH Spargo) are not quick. Spargo ok and Viney plays — well like Viney, but they are not quick. Is Dion Johnston quick? Spargo has leapt  him already.

Not saying quality smalls aren’t required, just need to have ‘hurt’ abilities.

We are full of ‘vanilla’ smalls IMO. You want vanilla , please make it 188 with grunt like AVB. 

I understand the pull of the family, but I have loved his last 1/2 doz games and so apparently have Sydney.

Want a fair return and definitely not another midget like Zac Jones.

Where we finished, we need the icing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Demons11 6,407]

7 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

I'd actually like our Club to be seen as thoughtful and compassionate towards its employees, especially in unforeseen circumstances like those that AVB has found himself in.  IMO, along with being successful, this is one of the important 'measures' of a true 'destination club'.

I’ve apologised, I didn’t realise his old man had passed 

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

3 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Mitchell is pure A grade and Rioli a master. Richmond players fast and with tricks. Other than Garlett,  the little blokes on  our list  ( Viney, Jones, Johnston , JKH Spargo) are not quick. Spargo ok and Viney plays — well like Viney, but they are not quick. Is Dion Johnston quick? Spargo has leapt  him already.

Not saying quality smalls aren’t required, just need to have ‘hurt’ abilities.

We are full of ‘vanilla’ smalls IMO. You want vanilla , please make it 188 with grunt like AVB. 

I understand the pull of the family, but I have loved his last 1/2 doz games and so apparently have Sydney.

Want a fair return and definitely not another midget like Zac Jones.

Where we finished, we need the icing.

 

 

A healthy Jack Viney has excellent burst speed, not sure how anyone could watch our finals and say otherwise. He is short but in no ways small. 

Dion Johnstone has some pace and is being groomed as a small defender to lock down on the small forwards, his main attribute is excellent tackling with a nice kick. No idea if he's good enough, not even convinced he has a new contract yet but he can be developed as the next Jetta in some regards. He'll be sent to play on 175cm opponents.

Spargo has enough speed and footy smarts to succeed as a small forward flanker. Most of football is running to the right spots, clean hands and smarts.

JKH is depth.

We have very few sub 6 foot players. I'm not convinced that 180-185 (5'11 to 6'1) guys are at a huge disadvantage to 185-190cm  players. Good teams use the ball well, pressure and help to defend, a few cm's here or there doesn't impact if the team has the right balance. 

I agree Vanders has more than the average fringe or 15th best player on a list, but I wouldn't limit what we need to only bigger bodies. We need a mix of players. I'd take the shortest player in the league coming in for Vanders if he's a gun. Zak Jones at 183cm shouldn't be overlooked due to size. We should worry if we need him due to his skills and overall talent, but he can be a great half back flanker at 183cm. Rory Laird is 177cm and a gun.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

26 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Gotta do what’s best for his family as sad as it would be to see him go! 

This.

[corowa 216]

4 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm aware of his attributes.

Clubs rank their list all of the time.  Just like they rank all drafts.

I said he was bottom 6 in our best 22.  You disagreed.  Not surprisingly when asked to rank our best 20 you come up short.

OK, ProDee, I'll take your bait!

My ranking of our players is based primarily on a geriatric 71 year old's assessment of our 2018 performances :

1.   Gawn         2.   Oliver      3.   T McDonald        4.   Lever       5.    Viney       6.    Jetta      7.    Hogan      8.   Harmes     9.  Hibberd

10.  Brayshaw      11.  Salem      12.  Petracca      13.  Melksham      14.    Vandenberg    15.   Fritsch     16.   Frost    17.  Jones

18. Weideman     19.   Lewis      20. Neil-Bullen    21.  Jones    22.  O McDonald    23.  Hannan     24.  J Smith      25.  Spargo

26.  Tyson      27.    Garlett

[Redleg 38,615]

2 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes the way things are unfolding you would think we had a bad year. We will have to get into trading picks for experienced players big time. No use going to the draft with 7 or 8 picks for 18 year olds. 

We won't be going to the draft to pick 7-8 18 year olds, you can bank that.

[Gator 16,921]

45 minutes ago, corowa said:

OK, ProDee, I'll take your bait!

My ranking of our players is based primarily on a geriatric 71 year old's assessment of our 2018 performances :

1.   Gawn         2.   Oliver      3.   T McDonald        4.   Lever       5.    Viney       6.    Jetta      7.    Hogan      8.   Harmes     9.  Hibberd

10.  Brayshaw      11.  Salem      12.  Petracca      13.  Melksham      14.    Vandenberg    15.   Fritsch     16.   Frost    17.  Jones

18. Weideman     19.   Lewis      20. Neil-Bullen    21.  Jones    22.  O McDonald    23.  Hannan     24.  J Smith      25.  Spargo

26.  Tyson      27.    Garlett

I like vandenBerg and prefer he stays, but if he goes it's not the end of the world.

He's not more important than key position players in Weideman or Oscar and Fritsch has him covered for upside as we move into 2019.  Neal-Bullen is in the top few pressure forwards in the league and has kicked 27 goals, but they're probably on about a par.  Some would argue that Jones (who you named twice) is also ahead in the pecking order.

He's in that 16-22 bracket, which is important, but he's also replaceable.

But if you have him 14 it matters little.  

Edited September 28, 2018 by ProDee

[beelzebub 22,730]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We won't be going to the draft to pick 7-8 18 year olds, you can bank that.

I bloody hope not

[WERRIDEE 5,256]

Disgraceful if true considering he was injured for 2 years.

[Moonshadow 16,621]

I'd take a 3 year contract near family anyday over a 1 year contract 900km away. Even if it was for a bit less money.

Was looking forward to seeing him in red and blue next year, but I respect his family loyalty.

I hope we get trade value for a player now injury free and showing promise late in the season.

[Redleg 38,615]

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I bloody hope not

I said you can bank on that.

[Deespicable 2,574]

4 hours ago, DubDee said:

Market price about pick 30?

big loss. We lose size and hardness around the contest and another tall target up front. I expect him to have a big year next year

So assuming he tells us he needs to move for family/business reasons, which player is worth more Zak Jones or Vanders.

If it was last season, Jones wins hands down, but he lost form this year and his crude tactics have lost him points.

My view is that Zak (a former No.15 pick) would now be worth about the figure you have suggested for Vanders.

Zak will be 24 in Rd 1, Vanders 27.

Straight trade? Or do we have to sweeten deal with a swap of our third round (50) for their fourth round (67)?

 

[chook fowler 18,596]

42 minutes ago, corowa said:

OK, ProDee, I'll take your bait!

My ranking of our players is based primarily on a geriatric 71 year old's assessment of our 2018 performances :

1.   Gawn         2.   Oliver      3.   T McDonald        4.   Lever       5.    Viney       6.    Jetta      7.    Hogan      8.   Harmes     9.  Hibberd

10.  Brayshaw      11.  Salem      12.  Petracca      13.  Melksham      14.    Vandenberg    15.   Fritsch     16.   Frost    17.  Jones

18. Weideman     19.   Lewis      20. Neil-Bullen    21.  Jones    22.  O McDonald    23.  Hannan     24.  J Smith      25.  Spargo

26.  Tyson      27.    Garlett

Good effort Corowa and pretty much on the money. Amazing to see how far up the rankings Harmes has come. Not sure I would have him above Gus but the point is moot.

[junk 342]

Doesn't  really upset me if he(Vanders) leaves, would like to get Lockhart from Casey. 

[WERRIDEE 5,256]

3 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

So assuming he tells us he needs to move for family/business reasons, which player is worth more Zak Jones or Vanders.

If it was last season, Jones wins hands down, but he lost form this year and his crude tactics have lost him points.

My view is that Zak (a former No.15 pick) would now be worth about the figure you have suggested for Vanders.

Zak will be 24 in Rd 1, Vanders 27.

Straight trade? Or do we have to sweeten deal with a swap of our third round (50) for their fourth round (67)?

 

I'd take Zak Jones in a heart beat, but it's really disappointing seeing Vanders go after we stuck by him.

[chook fowler 18,596]

May be a deal can be struck where we get Kade Whatshisface for Vanders in a 3 way trade.

[Stretch Johnson 2,603]

Ffs

There is no way in hell we are getting Zak Jones for Vandenberg.

[Demons11 6,407]

6 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Ffs

There is no way in hell we are getting Zak Jones for Vandenberg.

We have some delusional supporters 

[Engorged Onion 9,609]

22 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

I'd take Zak Jones in a heart beat, but it's really disappointing seeing Vanders go after we stuck by him.

@WERRIDEE, did you read the article? Do you understand his position and context? Do you still have the same opinion?