On 15/10/2018 at 22:17, stevethemanjordan said:

If we win a flag, the idea that we lost out on 'picks' will hold no weight. 

This is about the value of May and KK for us over the next 2-5 years vs Hogan. 

That's all that we should be worrying about. Yet for some reason, supporters have become brainwashed regarding draft picks and value. Because once upon a time it's all we had to look forward to. 

The other thing I'd like to point out is the fact that draft picks are also a risk. So really, y'all are kicking up a fuss about nothing. 

I totally understand your point 'steve', but.....

Those picks can be traded, a single pick 5 for Hogan will be unders.

A pick in the 20's got us Hibberd so it is of value.

We can't just let Hogan go for pick 5 even if it gets us May.

Forget KK, he can be picked up with another deal (late pick or future next year) and only muddies the waters in this discussion making us feel good about trading 5 for May.

Hogan has a higher value and we should extract that.

The difference could be us as a top 4 finisher never to quite make it or as a premiership team.

Pick 5 and Langdon would be a good outcome or pick 5 and another pick we could use for another player.

  On 15/10/2018 at 22:44, beelzebub said:

A big problem I think in all of this is folk isolate a player and then somehow attempt a valuation.

I see it differently.. Hogan is a forward...May is a back.  I think we can all at least agree upon that.

Here's where I diverge from the groupthink model.   I see it as a comparison of effects.

What does May added to our back arc do as compared Hogan being in the front arc ?

Add May to Lever, Hibberd , Jetta, Oscar  and say Salem...  thats formidable...take out May...not so much...as dynamic reverts back to before...somewhat problematic

Hogan in the fwd 50 with Tmac , Milkshake, Trac...any of Spargo... VDB  etc etc...is also quite effective.

Take out Hogan...put in Weed...or someone else..its still reasonably effective, and possibly not so mono-centric in nature  of attack.

So for mine the impact of May in far outweighs Hogan leaving

Have a suspicion out FD sees it similarly.

Agreed, but should have set out the '...etc, etc...' defenders to ramify the point. My thoughts are that May will have greatly improved pathways and options to clear, deliver the ball and select with the Dees' strong flanking and midfield array - far better than what he had at GCS. When he is not directly involved in the defensive roles, he will be a great opposition moderator/tagger and protector of both our players - and the goalmouth area - and hopefully as a teammate communicator within his set-up range.

Hogan generates expectation up the other end, with a considerable unilateral sense of the 'grab', and then the conversion; however, whilst this does occur, it does not occur assuredly nor quite as frequently as desired - and it also sets up a disposal willingness in our fwd 50 entrances to 'long bomb' and generally 'aim' in the direction of Hogan.

We can really be more deadly than this with our scoring opportunities and deliverance.

So, on balance, I'd consider team dynamics will work better for the Dees if May comes in down back and to achieve this, we must trade Hogan whilst strengthening the passage, delivery and own goalmouth corridors. 

Just need the deal to go ahead or not go ahead. 

I hear a roar in the jungle 

  On 15/10/2018 at 23:32, dl4e said:

Exactly. They say this draft is "super" up until 7. Well what might you get with pick 5 ?

I know we all have different opinions and that is fine but for the life of me what is basically becoming a straight swap from Hogan to May is just plain out bloody stupid.

may is a better player than hogan. its just that may plays for gold coast and hogan plays for a top 4 team with the highest inside 50s per game. its not a straight swap though because hogan is younger.

  On 15/10/2018 at 23:47, Dirts said:

Just need the deal to go ahead or not go ahead. 

I hear a roar in the jungle 

So he's off to the Tigers or Lions now?

  On 15/10/2018 at 23:26, Patches O’houlihan said:

Who do you like in the draft Clint? Young smith or one of the king brothers?

Jimmy Toumpas' brother.

  On 15/10/2018 at 23:48, Dr.D said:

may is a better player than hogan. its just that may plays for gold coast and hogan plays for a top 4 team with the highest inside 50s per game. its not a straight swap though because hogan is younger.

As I said we all have different opinions.

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:01, dl4e said:

As I said we all have different opinions.

Yeah definitely. I just think that if May was 23, we'd be content with a straight swap. 

I trust list management to do their job.

We have a great list which will be further improved after this trade period and the draft.

They got us to a Prelim this year , and we are set up for sustained success.

I for one have faith in Taylor, and Mahoney.

So as someone who doesn’t regularly check up on this page, at the moment what is the likelihood that that Hogan-May trade gets done ?

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:10, Alex Flood said:

So as someone who doesn’t regularly check up on this page, at the moment what is the likelihood that that Hogan-May trade gets done ?

some here say it will, some say it won't.................does that clarify things?

  On 15/10/2018 at 23:11, TGR said:

Freo have played us well.  They have reduced our expectations (and Hogans) on what we should get for him (and what $$ he should be on).  

They have played Demonland well.  I doubt if they have affected our FD or the majority of supporters who aren't mad enough to follow 366 pages of waffle (mine included). 

well, things moving along smoothly today

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:16, daisycutter said:

well, things moving along smoothly today

Seems like a made for TV deal...

  On 15/10/2018 at 23:24, ProDee said:

No, it's not.  Pick 5 and 23 is BETTER than what we paid for him.

We gave up one first rounder - pick 3.

Our pick 13 then slid to pick 20.

Even more importantly, it allowed us to use pick 25 on Jack Viney, instead of pick 5. That was the 'deal' that wasn't a deal but was definitely a deal.

So they really would have been viewing it as pick pick 3, 13 and 25 for 5, 20, Hogan and Dom Barry (who we got from their zone), IIRC.

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:18, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Seems like a made for TV deal...

yeah, the whole 10 days should be live on tv

We could call it "Outlandish"

Its going to be a made for Tv extravaganza, With Hogan and Bell coming out holding hands, wearing pink tutus and dancing to Music from the nutcracker suite.

Mahoney and May will then follow dressed in swimming costumes and diving into a swimming pool performing a synchronized swimming routine.

 

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:10, Alex Flood said:

So as someone who doesn’t regularly check up on this page, at the moment what is the likelihood that that Hogan-May trade gets done ?

No one knows - but at least we have all increased our knowledge of biscuits! ?

  On 15/10/2018 at 22:36, ProDee said:

Due to Olisik's incorrect assertions it seems I also have to post this here.

A few things...

I doubt you know that every one of those goals was kicked on May.  In fact, I know you don't, because Kennedy kicked 4 on him and Riewoldt 6.  And key defenders are only as good as team structures and the quality of their midfield.

You think May is slow when speed is one of his biggest strengths.  This clearly tells me you have no clue about the player you're criticising.

The following is from a recent article:

In 2016 he (May) was the third-best defender in the competition behind Alex Rance and ahead of Jeremy McGovern, losing just 14 of 71 one-on-ones for the entire year.

This season Gold Coast haemorrhaged inside 50s, giving up five more than the next-worst side.

The offensive stuff is what elevates him above the dime-a-dozen stoppers.

This year he averaged 17.4 disposals (second-most for key defenders), 334 metres gained (second most for key defenders) as well 7.6 intercept possessions, three intercept marks and 6.8 spoils (all above average).

Put him into an good side with quality players around him and you have a weapon at full back.

They (Melbourne) get Jake Lever back at some stage and improved their defensive mix late, but still were the fourth-easiest side to score against across the entire season.

Slot him in alongside Lever and Max Gawn becomes an offensive threat again instead of being forced to play as a seventh defender at times as well as a ruckman.

To sum up, Olisik, you're welcome to your opinion, but it's hopelessly misinformed.

Thanks PD.  Based purely on my own judgement, I would not have been keen on chasing May.  However, over recent years our recruiters have had considerable success in making the right calls at this time of the year, and only a fool would ignore that.  They are paid professionals, and they see and analyse a hell of a lot more than us mere fans.  Your post confirms (to me) that it's very easy for us fans to focus on the trees while ignoring the forest.

Edited October 16, 20186 yr by Deeoldfart
added "to me" in final sentence

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:21, daisycutter said:

yeah, the whole 10 days should be live on tv

 

Or they could just run this

 

 

at least with today's little rain, i've discovered that sitting out on my nature strip watching the grass grow is a big improvement

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:37, daisycutter said:

at least with today's little rain, i've discovered that sitting out on my nature strip watching the grass grow is a big improvement

I prefer the Buffalo Texture myself....

  On 16/10/2018 at 00:37, daisycutter said:

at least with today's little rain, i've discovered that sitting out on my nature strip watching the grass grow is a big improvement

Rain what's that?

Watching Dravid bat is more exciting than this trade period