Farewell Jesse Hogan

[phuket demon 76]

Jake Lever goes alright. He will be back. 

[Winter Dan 425]

1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

Same. That is why I am glad this deal has fallen through. Hogan is a far better player than May, and has far greater upside than May. Thank god Freo have stuffed this deal. We probably would've give pick 5 for May, which essentially means we'd get May and 23 for Hogan. That would be a poor result. Hogan is worth far more than that. 

Same, same. Now I'm just anxious for trade period to end, so the door is well and truely shut. 

Don't want the industry convincing them rightfully so, that they just fleeced themselves, and then offering pick 5 on Wed afternoon when they finally realise Neale can't be convinced to stay of his own free will.

5/6 & 11 would have been my minimum - Hogan's a gun.

Think the current outcome is great - Hogan had an itch, we behaved generously, now that option has gone - time to refocus at the Dee's and continue enjoying being at Melb and riding the wave towards success - great club, great team mates, great coach and great success.

Managing the Tmac/Weid/Hogan dilemma was my only concern, with the prospect of loosing Weid for opportunity and then Hogan to WA, but I'm  starting to warm to the Hogan CHB idea, where potentially they all fit nicely. Makes me think of Neitz back there.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,535]

It’s been quite a few hours now and I’ve had some time to reflect on the events of this afternoon. Jeez Bell is a [censored]. 

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

10 minutes ago, Tram 74 said:

Nobody is going to read that, get concise.

Hogan has behaved with integrity.

MFC have tried to deal openly and honestly.

Peter Bell is an ego-driven monkey who thinks everyone else is stupid.

Nobody thinks May is worth more than Hogan, but he does fill a gap in our list and Hogan leaving does not create one.

I think that's about it.  If you want detail, read the damn post. 

[whatwhat say what 19,679]

11 minutes ago, Tram 74 said:

Nobody is going to read that, get concise.

i read it, and agreed with it

tl;dr: jesse, his management, and mfc have been respectful to one another, mfc was only going to let jesse go if it facilitated bringing may in, but peter bell has acted like a little napoleon and stuffed up what should have been an easily done deal basically on his first week on the job

what's more, it's set an absolutely awful precedent for his tenure in his FIRST WEEK on the job - now fremantle are going to be perceived as difficult to work with by the vast majority of the afl industry, and treated like a pariah accordingly

it's a monumental [censored] up

from now the plan is:
- win the premiership with jesse starring all year long
- sign him up midyear after a massive victory against freo over there
- get may as a free agent at the end of next year

what's the bet freo fans boo him when he lines up against them at their home ground next year?

[Demonsone 1,666]

Not sure why this has played out so publicly?? Stop the games & the impact on the player welfare.. either freo agree from day 1 to an early pick or don’t waste our time & move on ... 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

Posters who think Jesse is going to suddenly embrace the club and sign a long term deal to stay at Melbourne are in for a rude shock. 

What’s happened here is Bell promised Hogan and his manager that Freo have a lucrative deal waiting for him end of 2019 if he can’t bend Melbourne over this year (which is the way it’s panned out).

This whole circus sideshow continues on for another 12 months so that Freo can hold on to Neale/pick 5.

We should have traded out Hogan two years ago when he insisted on that stupid two year extension. It was a huge red flag that he was never truly committed to the MFC and now it’s blown up in our face is Freo try to rip us off and get him on the cheap. 

We better learn our lesson from this and never let a player dictate the length of a contract extension to us again. Recipe for disaster.

[Neil Crompton 4,842]

I was from the camp that said we shouldn't be trading Hogan unless he wanted to leave. Well it seems he wanted to leave. And to me, given Freo's back peddle, i think this is now a major problem for us. If i was a player at Melbourne, i would not want to be going into battle with someone who no longer wants to be there. And if I were our coach, I'd be telling management to get him out of the club. For this reason i don't think our management are at all happy with Freo.  

[DEE fence 4,558]

2 hours ago, dworship said:

Hopefully someone will sit Jesse down without his Manager and explain the first rules of negotiation.

1. What are the needs of the other side?

2. Always look for the "Blue" Do I need to explain what the "Red" is!  Take a bow Dorks!

3. Do your due diligence eg pressure points, hopes vs wants.

4. Only seriously low ball and potentially insult the the other party when having addressed the above 3 and being in a position of power and even then do it with grace and honesty.

5. Never give your hand away by making things public until you are sure of the outcome.

6. It's ok to withhold, it's not ok to mislead. (Caveat: Unless you absolutely know you won't get caught out)

7. The best and easiest negotiations are Win/Win

I could go on but by now you might see that there is one side that has known what they are doing and if JH doesn't recognise that then I will be happy to see him cut lose next year. As a friend often says "You can't put brains in monuments".

Disclaimer: Yes, I have significant training and experience in this area and I have had negotiations break down and people walk away.     Never have I had a feeling that the people walking away didn't think I was not to be trusted or that our time had been wasted.

 

You could come and work with me in the UN.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

1 hour ago, Tram 74 said:

Nobody is going to read that, get concise.

Many of us can read.

[Deesprate 1,204]

1 hour ago, Tram 74 said:

Nobody is going to read that, get concise.

I read it make sense!

[special robert 438]

So this is not over? This is a negotiating ploy by Freo? The Afl web story seems to imply this. The trade period has days to run. I'm seriously confused...what's next?

[64'' 11]

Without doubt this has been poorly handled by mahoney in dealing with childish fremantle.He did not need to show his hand and if May is a improvement on Jessie thats a laugh.Time to move on and focus on improving what we have. 

 

[FireInTheBennelly 4,027]

1 hour ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Hogan has behaved with integrity.

MFC have tried to deal openly and honestly.

Peter Bell is an ego-driven monkey who thinks everyone else is stupid.

Nobody thinks May is worth more than Hogan, but he does fill a gap in our list and Hogan leaving does not create one.

I think that's about it.  If you want detail, read the damn post. 

I think Demonland is above these heightist remarks don't you?

[FireInTheBennelly 4,027]

On a side note, considering the trade period influences components of the following years FIXture, I'll be very disappointed if Freo aren't playing us at the MCG next year.

[Aus in Engerland 75]

42 minutes ago, special robert said:

So this is not over? This is a negotiating ploy by Freo? The Afl web story seems to imply this. The trade period has days to run. I'm seriously confused...what's next?

I agree with the AFL website dudes. Just a ploy. More to play out yet.

The domino in this whole business is Lachie Neale. When that falls, everything else can get done. It just needs Bell the **** to realise that pick 5 is more than fair. It's not very often that a club comes along and gives a stupid trade like pick 2 (Brayshaw) for a near spud like Lachie Weller.

Message to Freo - you got lucky with a Lachie trade in 2017, it's not going to happen twice.

[Binmans PA 26,492]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

Sometimes ?  I see myself as a miserable pr!ck all of the time.  I'm grumpy more than a "flogger", but each to their own.

I have no idea what will happen, but my preference is for Hogan to go if it will land May. 

I cannot accept that Hogan wants to leave when we're finally a top 4 club to go to a bottom 4-6 club.  He's spent nearly a third of his life in Melbourne and if he was single minded about a flag he wouldn't leave.

I reckon I've been one of Hogan's biggest supporters, but when you lose me you lose me.  Entering his prime, having done the hard yards, he wants to go to a [censored] club ?  Move him on.  And posters here want to "get around" him.  Please.  

Gut feel ?  Wednesday 8.30pm is a long way away in trade terms.  60/40 purple.

Yep. I want him gone now. He didn't want to commit and he lost me then. He wants out. Clear the deck and bring in May. 

[64'' 11]

Thats it NO DEAL...for Hogan under any circumstances with [censored] Bell and Co.As for Jessie agreeing to a trade with turdmantle why would you after that debacle.Do yourself a favour and get a new manager for starters.Come back to Melbourne and put in instead chasing the dollars.Melbourne have been bloody decent so show some [censored] respect and sign a three yr contract at least.

 

[old55 21,635]

6 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Hogan will play off half back next year, a solid inside source told me about an hour ago. Also told me last week that Tyson was gone for Pruess. 

So i will watch closely. 

“The club is not unhappy” his words...

I'm a big fan of this idea.  I think he is well suited to this role and it is less likely to bring out his sometimes dubious attitude episodes (although I acknowledge it hadn't stopped Rance similarly playing for frees in this role).

This whole Hogan trade debacle may yet have a silver lining because it may be the circuit breaker that makes a somewhat left field idea like this possible to execute.

Goodwin has shown a willingness to try this type of move e.g. Melkshan forward, TMac forward, but probably needed a catalyst to enable an idea like Hogan back to get traction.

It makes sense from a number of angles.  The need to improve KP defence as indicated by the interest in May.  The over load of KPF as indicated by our willingness to contemplate trading Hogan and amplified by the recruitment of Preuss.  I think the FD may have assumed no Hogan when pursuing this trade - not that that is the primary reason.

Also final silver lining, surely Hogan is over his flirtation with Freo and may now be willing to commit to our cause if we strongly welcome him back across the board.

[old55 21,635]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

Sometimes ?  I see myself as a miserable pr!ck all of the time.  I'm grumpy more than a "flogger", but each to their own.

I have no idea what will happen, but my preference is for Hogan to go if it will land May. 

I cannot accept that Hogan wants to leave when we're finally a top 4 club to go to a bottom 4-6 club.  He's spent nearly a third of his life in Melbourne and if he was single minded about a flag he wouldn't leave.

I reckon I've been one of Hogan's biggest supporters, but when you lose me you lose me.  Entering his prime, having done the hard yards, he wants to go to a [censored] club ?  Move him on.  And posters here want to "get around" him.  Please.  

Gut feel ?  Wednesday 8.30pm is a long way away in trade terms.  60/40 purple.

You've changed your tune.

Sure Hogan is open to a trade to Freo when they are offering him a long fat contract.  But the fact is, as you at least used to acknowledge, MFC has been in favour of trading him too this time and has been actively courting the idea.  It's not all or even mainly Hogan driving IMO.

I have no issue with this position of MFC and would be fine if he's traded for reasonable return like 5 + 23 that gets us May and makes us better - and it still could happen.  We're lucky to have a surplus of KPF talent, Hogan is the most tradable and saves long term salary cap that enables us to keep our other stars - the FD probably calculated that we can't keep them all.

Now Freo have forked this up totally and any resurrection of the trade is totally in their court on our terms.  In the absence of this we should actively turn it around to a positive with Hogan staying.  That's where we should get around him and play him in the backline in 2019.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Fifty-5

[Pates 9,537]

3 hours ago, phuket demon said:

Jake Lever goes alright. He will be back. 

I think a lot of people are forgetting this, when Lever was playing our backline was very settled and working well. We had to experiment a number of times before we got a mix that could work ok but if wasn’t the same. When Lever comes back we will have an intercept defender that can control the backline, Frost also came on in leaps and bounds while I have faith that OMac will continue to improve. While I would’ve liked us to get May I don’t see it as the end of the world. 

[Pates 9,537]

4 hours ago, Beetle said:

Spot on. The damage is done, regardless of the outcome.

Only if you want it to be, it’s the world of professional sport. If he’s a proper professional he’ll come back fit and firing for 2019, I’m willing to cut him some slack but it’s not hard to see who’s going to take the mantle of whipping boy next year should he (as it appears) remain a Demon. 

[What 18,810]

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Hogan will play off half back next year, a solid inside source told me about an hour ago. Also told me last week that Tyson was gone for Pruess. 

 

He has the tools to be the best CHB in the league.   The big question mark of course is how would he go having to be accountable for his man?  

I think he will be a Michael Hurley clone if he plays back, and you'd take that every day of the week.

 

B  -     N. Jetta       S.   May      M. Hibberd

HB  -   J.Lever       J.Hogan      C.Salem  (B.Fritsch? K.Koladashnij?)

 

Looks delicious on paper.

[faultydet 7,593]

3 hours ago, Deesprate said:

I read it make sense!

That didn't.

[3726062254 5]

Being the pessimist I am. If the trade does not get done this year, then i see Hogan will be off at the end of 2019 for little or no return for Melbourne. It seems like he wants to go home and he will eventually go home.

If by Wednesday he doesn't get traded, he needs to extend his contract for minimum 2 years, keeping him till the end of 2021. That way we still have some form of a bargaining chip in terms of trading for some value.

Either Hogan signs on for a minimum 2 years or he is traded for pick 5 future first round it's that simple.

 

On a side note, Hogan may want to consider how he is going to kick goals at Freo. Count the amount of demons before you hit a Freo player, a freo player who wants to head across to Brisbane in 2019.

 

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2018&rt=LT&st=I5