Farewell Jesse Hogan

[old dee 23,497]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I think the problem some have with this idea of trading Hogan is that they don't have a solution in place.  So Freo just offer us two picks and Cerra?  Does the club even want that deal?  And if we get that deal, do we even want high picks at this stage or do they want to trade them on?  Who is the player available that a club wants to give up so easily for those picks?

There is no solution, it's pure hypothetical that is based on nothing.  In fact, the thread was started by a shallow poster having a whinge.  It wasn't even based on the go home factor which is what others are now trying to hang their hat on.

So we are not allow to discuss the a hypothetical  Wiseblood?

Does every discussion have to based on a fact before it is allowing.

There are lots of discussions on here that I don't see any interest in so I don't bother with them.

Others should perhaps do similar.

[Watson11 2,214]

I hope the players get social media training and are told to stay a long way away from demonland.  If any of them naively come here looking for ego boosts they'll end up on the psychologists couch.

I'm in the no way trade Hogan camp unless he wants out.  100kg power forwards, who can run at 34km/hr and do a 2km time trial in 6mins, along with his natural skills are unique.  His lower output against the better teams has been largely due to us butchering the ball going inside 50.  We are improving our inside 50 delivery and he'll be a superstar for us.

 

[old dee 23,497]

5 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

I hope the players get social media training and are told to stay a long way away from demonland.  If any of them naively come here looking for ego boosts they'll end up on the psychologists couch.

I'm in the no way trade Hogan camp unless he wants out.  100kg power forwards, who can run at 34km/hr and do a 2km time trial in 6mins, along with his natural skills are unique.  His lower output against the better teams has been largely due to us butchering the ball going inside 50.  We are improving our inside 50 delivery and he'll be a superstar for us.

 

It is a fan site people give their opinions take it or leave it.

I would be extremely surprised if players come on here. I don't have a high opinion of the average footballer but I reckon most are way more clever than to bother coming on here.

Edited August 28, 2018 by old dee

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

So Wise what is the problem with talking hypotheticals? I put it to you if Freo offered young Brayshaw and this years and next years first pick for Hogan would you take it?

Only if he absolutely wanted to go home and, even then, I'd take Cerra instead of Brayshaw if we could.  Picks do nothing for me at the moment as we're a finals side so, unless the club had further deals in place, I wouldn't be too keen on it.  

Outside of that the club, Hogan himself etc have said he is super happy at the club and he doesn't want to go home.

1 minute ago, old dee said:

So we are not allow to discuss the a hypothetical  Wiseblood?

Does every discussion have to based on a fact before it is allowing.

There are lots of discussions on here that I don't see any interest in so I don't bother with them.

Others should perhaps do similar.

Go right ahead, OD.  I don't know why you would waste your time on it, but hey, if it makes people happy, then discuss 'em until your hearts content.

[old dee 23,497]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Only if he absolutely wanted to go home and, even then, I'd take Cerra instead of Brayshaw if we could.  Picks do nothing for me at the moment as we're a finals side so, unless the club had further deals in place, I wouldn't be too keen on it.  

Outside of that the club, Hogan himself etc have said he is super happy at the club and he doesn't want to go home.

Go right ahead, OD.  I don't know why you would waste your time on it, but hey, if it makes people happy, then discuss 'em until your hearts content.

No Problem and hope you have a ticket for friday week enjoy.

[ManDee 7,124]

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Only if he absolutely wanted to go home and, even then, I'd take Cerra instead of Brayshaw if we could.  Picks do nothing for me at the moment as we're a finals side so, unless the club had further deals in place, I wouldn't be too keen on it.  

Outside of that the club, Hogan himself etc have said he is super happy at the club and he doesn't want to go home.

Go right ahead, OD.  I don't know why you would waste your time on it, but hey, if it makes people happy, then discuss 'em until your hearts content.

But Wise we could swap the picks for Kelly or some other superstar. That is the point don't you think? To have a discussion, talk about the team we love and our mad ideas to make us invincible. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by ManDee

[beelzebub 23,200]

20 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Q1: based on history of genuine AFL quality forwards involved in trades

Q2: Bizarre question with no relevance to the conversation. I have already said, in every one of my posts, that I’m NOT talking about a walkout scenario or any other scenario where retaining him is not an option.

Q3: Nope, human being. You?

Q4: Strawman question, which doesn’t deserve an answer but I’ll give one anyway. Obviously I am not prescient to all future offers, but my imagination can’t stretch to one that I see as being both realistic and worth the trouble. Seeing as you still haven’t put one up when asked, I take that to mean you can’t either.

So you don't know what's out there...or might be...but it can't be any good based on various past trades.

Well that ties it all up nicely....for you. 

I however am prepared to see what transpires. I have no qualms about him being traded if that works for the club. 

As you like to refer to historical stances then consider many a trade/offer wasn't even penciled in on many occasions prior to the start of the Circus Week.  Combine that with some clubs track records of either facilitating trades for others ( clubs)if it benefitted them and the all but total unpredictable theatre that is trade week and it's quite possible a trade might eventuate...if it suited all parties.

I for one don't think Hogan and Melbourne are set in concrete.

Mine's the straw scenario ? How can I show you that which doesn't exist yet ? Who knows the absolute shape of a trade here ? That doesn't by extrapolation mean one can't.

Could Hogan go home ? Of course.

Would either WA club take him? In a micro second ( if the deal flew )

Is Jesses next contract with Melbourne ? Quite possibly...not absolutely.

Are Hogan and MFC a good fit ? Undoubtedly

Is there a better fit ? Stay tuned.

Will someone put an offer to Jesse/MFC this EOS ? I'd put money on it.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Thought I'd make a new thread in case Clarry goes home.  Here's how we could start it:

So it seems, going by the 'Trade Hogan' thread, that it's okay for us to discuss hypothetical trades on players in case they want out of the club.  You just never know when that may happen.  We don't know what's going on inside their head, we don't know if they want a sea change and we can't believe a thing they say or that the club says.  I mean, of course they'll be positive about the players, so don't listen to them at all.  They don't know what they're talking about.

Oliver may request a trade to Hawthorn, or Richmond, or Collingwood.  Does anyone know who he supported as a kid?  He may go there as well.  I mean, this is based on nothing guys, but he may go one day.  So it's good to have trade ideas and hypotheticals here that the club won't listen to just in case.

So what do we want?  9 first rounders?  I'd love to know so I can be at ease with his decision if he ever makes it.

And don't tell me off, I'm allowed to discuss hyotheticals about required players who have given no indication of wanting out.  It's might right.

Cheers.

Edit - forgot to add that this is just an example of what we should be doing for all players going by the logic of some in this thread.  Bloke had given no indication of going home, yet we should be discussing hypotheticals.  Madness.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Wiseblood

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,379]

It’s all getting a little bit silly now.  

The only reason the club would ever trade Hogan would be if we were offered something simply too good to pass up in return.  Some arguments suggesting we trade home because he’s overrated or replaceable are fanciful.  He would walk into the forward six of every team in the league- and they’d be very, very happy to have him.

There was a similar thread in the first third of the year suggesting to trade Brayshaw for ‘whatever we could get for him’.  Three weeks ago there was a thread to cut our losses and trade out Weideman (who’s suddenly replaced Hogan as our long term CHF).

Jesse is a 23yo KPF who has only played 71 games.  He hasn’t even scratched the surface.

And...

https://thewest.com.au/sport/melbourne-demons/jesse-hogan-isnt-going-anywhere-says-melbourne-coach-simon-goodwin-ng-b88942433z

[Engorged Onion 10,135]

10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Thought I'd make a new thread in case Clarry goes home.  Here's how we could start it:

So it seems, going by the 'Trade Hogan' thread, that it's okay for us to discuss hypothetical trades on players in case they want out of the club.  You just never know when that may happen.  We don't know what's going on inside their head, we don't know if they want a sea change and we can't believe a thing they say or that the club says.  I mean, of course they'll be positive about the players, so don't listen to them at all.  They don't know what they're talking about.

Oliver may request a trade to Hawthorn, or Richmond, or Collingwood.  Does anyone know who he supported as a kid?  He may go there as well.  I mean, this is based on nothing guys, but he may go one day.  So it's good to have trade ideas and hypotheticals here that the club won't listen to just in case.

So what do we want?  9 first rounders?  I'd love to know so I can be at ease with his decision if he ever makes it.

And don't tell me off, I'm allowed to discuss hyotheticals about required players who have given no indication of wanting out.  It's might right.

Cheers.

wrong thread mate... you forgot to click on the red 'start a new topic' button... ?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Danelska said:

wrong thread mate... you forgot to click on the red 'start a new topic' button... ?

Ha ha, forgot to add the 'example' bit at the top.  Could you imagine the melt down if I started one?  Wouldn't go down well.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,217]

20 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Thought I'd make a new thread in case Clarry goes home.  Here's how we could start it:

So it seems, going by the 'Trade Hogan' thread, that it's okay for us to discuss hypothetical trades on players in case they want out of the club.  You just never know when that may happen.  We don't know what's going on inside their head, we don't know if they want a sea change and we can't believe a thing they say or that the club says.  I mean, of course they'll be positive about the players, so don't listen to them at all.  They don't know what they're talking about.

Oliver may request a trade to Hawthorn, or Richmond, or Collingwood.  Does anyone know who he supported as a kid?  He may go there as well.  I mean, this is based on nothing guys, but he may go one day.  So it's good to have trade ideas and hypotheticals here that the club won't listen to just in case.

So what do we want?  9 first rounders?  I'd love to know so I can be at ease with his decision if he ever makes it.

And don't tell me off, I'm allowed to discuss hyotheticals about required players who have given no indication of wanting out.  It's might right.

Cheers.

Edit - forgot to add that this is just an example of what we should be doing for all players going by the logic of some in this thread.  Bloke had given no indication of going home, yet we should be discussing hypotheticals.  Madness.

You forgot to mention Oliver stands up in big games.

[ManDee 7,124]

36 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Q1: based on history of genuine AFL quality forwards involved in trades

Q2: Bizarre question with no relevance to the conversation. I have already said, in every one of my posts, that I’m NOT talking about a walkout scenario or any other scenario where retaining him is not an option.

Q3: Nope, human being. You?

Q4: Strawman question, which doesn’t deserve an answer but I’ll give one anyway. Obviously I am not prescient to all future offers, but my imagination can’t stretch to one that I see as being both realistic and worth the trouble. Seeing as you still haven’t put one up when asked, I take that to mean you can’t either.

A1 - Templeton, Ablett, Lockett, Fevola, Hall, Kennedy, Franklin there are others all involved in trades. Some decent forwards there, all kicked more goals in a season than Hogan. I would argue that the winners were Footscray - Templeton - Geelong Ablett - Evens on Lockett(StKilda got 6 players inc Joel Smith, Wakelin, ) - Carlton Fevola, Hall - StKilda got Heath Black & Nick Dal Santo - WCE Kennedy  - Sydney Franklin

[Wiseblood 24,637]

5 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

You forgot to mention Oliver stands up in big games.

Thank God for that.  He'd be no good to us sitting down.

[M_9 1,984]

1 hour ago, Mr Steve said:

This thread is an embarrassment to The Melbourne Football club, Jesse Hogan and Demonland. It should be shut down and removed immediately. 

Bump. I'm sure Goodwin's comments on last night's OTC have been quoted. Please DL'ers, ignore this thread.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, ManDee said:

A1 - Templeton, Ablett, Lockett, Fevola, Hall, Kennedy, Franklin there are others all involved in trades. Some decent forwards there, all kicked more goals in a season than Hogan. I would argue that the winners were Footscray - Templeton - Geelong Ablett - Evens on Lockett(StKilda got 6 players inc Joel Smith, Wakelin, ) - Carlton Fevola, Hall - StKilda got Heath Black & Nick Dal Santo - WCE Kennedy  - Sydney Franklin

Which Ablett?  The one who had spent his time at Hawthorn on a wing?  Can't really be classed as a key forward when traded as he wasn't playing there at Hawthorn.  Fev was a disgrace and Carlton couldn't wait to get rid of him.  Same with Barry Hall, who was traded twice.  Kennedy went for Judd and wasn't as established, at the time, as Hogan is now.  

Outside of maybe Buddy, Templeton and Lockett, none of the above really fit Hogan.  That's just three.  

Unless a club gives us something stupid, Hogan stays.  Hypothesising about a club doing that seems so strange to me, yet here we are.

[beelzebub 23,200]

I enjoy good robust debate. You can identify that by either side proffering their view and furnishing it with something to hang a hat on or viewing what's on the discussion table.

And then there's comedy... has its place until it declines into farce.

[ManDee 7,124]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Which Ablett?  The one who had spent his time at Hawthorn on a wing?  Can't really be classed as a key forward when traded as he wasn't playing there at Hawthorn.  Fev was a disgrace and Carlton couldn't wait to get rid of him.  Same with Barry Hall, who was traded twice.  Kennedy went for Judd and wasn't as established, at the time, as Hogan is now.  

Outside of maybe Buddy, Templeton and Lockett, none of the above really fit Hogan.  That's just three.  

Unless a club gives us something stupid, Hogan stays.  Hypothesising about a club doing that seems so strange to me, yet here we are.

Sorry Wise, "Q1: based on history of genuine AFL quality forwards involved in trades"  Was Ablett the senior a quality forward? Was he involved in a trade? Or has Hogan played on the wing on the ball or down back is he still a forward? - Carlton received Lachie Henderson & pick 12 (Fyfe -Carlisle - Talia - Jetta - Gawn all went later) 

My point is good forwards do get traded, you can win or you can lose but you must keep your mind open to opportunities. Or we can have fun speculating. 

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Players who kicked more than 3 goals and had more than 20 possessions?

Hogan 5 times

No other player had more than 3

[ding 5,126]

3 hours ago, Melb16 said:

Some people do want him traded, or there wouldn't be a thread this size about it. That's their prerogative. But I hope they aren't the same people that get upset with Clark, Howe, $cully etc.

We should be doing everything we can to extend his contract as he's a very important player.

I said he ''can'' kick 50 in a season. Given he averaged 2.4 in 20 games I reckon that's a fair statement to make.

Disagree. Respectfully.

I think he has the talent to kick much more than 50 in a season. He has the talent to be a 70+ per year forward, but only if he rids himself of the 2 terrible habits i mentioned earlier. He wont do the first until he has done the second.

If the MFC is as professional as i think it has become, more than one person inside the club would have told him that already.

He is a deadset gun, who has been selling himself short.

[Moonshadow 17,551]

3 hours ago, Melb16 said:

Some people do want him traded, or there wouldn't be a thread this size about it. That's their prerogative. But I hope they aren't the same people that get upset with Clark, Howe, $cully etc.

We should be doing everything we can to extend his contract as he's a very important player.

I said he ''can'' kick 50 in a season. Given he averaged 2.4 in 20 games I reckon that's a fair statement to make.

That bit we can both agree upon.

[Moonshadow 17,551]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Only if he absolutely wanted to go home and, even then, I'd take Cerra instead of Brayshaw if we could.  Picks do nothing for me at the moment as we're a finals side so, unless the club had further deals in place, I wouldn't be too keen on it.  

 

Careful Wise, it sounds like you are talking considered, hypothetical outcomes, albeit unlikely.

[Dr.D 1,771]

This thread proves that many dees fans can't stand Hogans lack of defensive pressure and intensity. I'd throw in goal kicking too. but that's a story for another day. As supporters we all want us to win, so there is no agenda for not liking Hogan. So its purely his output on the field that isn't good enough in many supporters' eyes. And that's fact.

[Dr.D 1,771]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Thought I'd make a new thread in case Clarry goes home.  Here's how we could start it:

So it seems, going by the 'Trade Hogan' thread, that it's okay for us to discuss hypothetical trades on players in case they want out of the club.  You just never know when that may happen.  We don't know what's going on inside their head, we don't know if they want a sea change and we can't believe a thing they say or that the club says.  I mean, of course they'll be positive about the players, so don't listen to them at all.  They don't know what they're talking about.

Oliver may request a trade to Hawthorn, or Richmond, or Collingwood.  Does anyone know who he supported as a kid?  He may go there as well.  I mean, this is based on nothing guys, but he may go one day.  So it's good to have trade ideas and hypotheticals here that the club won't listen to just in case.

So what do we want?  9 first rounders?  I'd love to know so I can be at ease with his decision if he ever makes it.

And don't tell me off, I'm allowed to discuss hyotheticals about required players who have given no indication of wanting out.  It's might right.

Cheers.

Edit - forgot to add that this is just an example of what we should be doing for all players going by the logic of some in this thread.  Bloke had given no indication of going home, yet we should be discussing hypotheticals.  Madness.

This is a silly comparison. Everyone loves Oliver and his consistency, drive, workmate etc. Hogan is a very polarising player because he severely lacks in the areas that Oliver excels in. It's like you're one of those supporters that thinks all of our players are AA. Hogan needs to seriously lift in order to help our team, otherwise I'm happy to go with Mcdonald and Weideman and play with spirit and all of the other intangibles. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Dr.D

[beelzebub 23,200]

Dr I fear what you prescribe will not be palatable medicine for some ?

Talking Heads had a album once , in much of this vein ??