@Clint Bizkit I saw you ask the question in another thread so thought I'd share here.

Theres no doubt in my mind now after looking at the stats that Hogan is a flat track bully, rarely has a good game against better sides which is a concern.

Hogan: Has kicked only 9 goals in 8 games vs the top 10 at an average of just 1.12 goals per game, being goalless twice and kicking 1 on 4 occasions. In contrast vs the bottom 8 he has kicked 38 goals in 12 games at an average of 3.16 per game. That is flat track territory and gives weight to those that are arguing this point.

TMAC on the other hand this year missed a few games at the start but in his 4 games against the top 10 has booted 15 goals at an average of 3.75 per game and 27 goals in 11 games vs bottom 8 at 2.45 per game.

Trade a 23 yr old key position forward while he's developing and before he's even close to reaching his prime?

Laughable

Jesse Hogan is one of the main reasons I want to watch Melbourne FC. He is starting to look more like David Neitz with every passing year. He is untradeable and will help us to a Grand Final soon. This thread is even more nuts than the Neal Bullen one.

Whether you agree or disagree with the OP, this is a scenario that deserves discussion. I believe our squad lacks both the  leg-speed and the polish to perform deep into September. How do we get it? Maybe, just maybe, we can snag Gaff as a RFA. Or a Hall type. Otherwise we're going to have to trade for the picks that can then be on-traded for ready-made players with the attributes we need to balance our list. Whose got currency? Hogan. You'd want a lot in return, but he's not untouchable.

Another thing is, Hogan seems to always have a niggle against good sides and then dominates against sides like GC.

Nah, Jesse is a keeper.  He was waddling like a duck trying to warm up to come back on at one stage yesterday, and looked like spent a fair bit of time on the pine.  Hope he gets back to some fitness and form.  If we traded players based on yesterday's performance, there would not be enough teams to trade with.

10 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Nah, Jesse is a keeper.  He was waddling like a duck trying to warm up to come back on at one stage yesterday, and looked like spent a fair bit of time on the pine.  

In the first half of the game he was one of our best players.  Alright, he missed a few easy shots on goal, but he was working his arse off up the ground to get into the play and make himself a focal point of our attack.

When he got injured he wasn't the same, but got back out there and had a crack anyway.  Talk of trading a potential 50 goal a year forward is complete madness.

35 minutes ago, Thehardtackler said:

Jesse Hogan is one of the main reasons I want to watch Melbourne FC. He is starting to look more like David Neitz with every passing year. He is untradeable and will help us to a Grand Final soon. This thread is even more nuts than the Neal Bullen one.

lol comparing hogan to neitz. neitz was all heart. and 5 times the player

Hogan will always be limited by his attitudinal problems. And what I mean is that he's a big sook who will never change. 

We should trade him now whilst he still has some value. 

And funnily enough I feel the Heeney mark of the year will add to Hogans problems. Watching replays of Heeney standing on his head will just make him regress further into his shell. 

I'd say Gawn and Clarry are the only two untouchables ATM. I'd rather keep Hogan, but if he was thinking twice about his future at the Dees and we could extract Cerra (or similar) and a good pick out of Freo, then why the hell not?

38 minutes ago, MSFebey said:

Another thing is, Hogan seems to always have a niggle against good sides and then dominates against sides like GC.

This.

Schuss!

37 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Nah, Jesse is a keeper.  He was waddling like a duck trying to warm up to come back on at one stage yesterday, and looked like spent a fair bit of time on the pine.  Hope he gets back to some fitness and form.  If we traded players based on yesterday's performance, there would not be enough teams to trade with.

Yesterday's performance in isolation is not the problem.

Jesse has had 365 disposals, taken 125 marks and kicked 47 goals so far this season playing both as a deep forward and up the ground.

But nah, let's trade him and put our faith in a kid that hasn't really done a thing at senior level.

I worry for our supporter base sometimes.

His kicking routine is atrocious, he's been in the system long enough to sort this out, under pressure it will most always crack. The jog and stutter, ball swinging around in a circle from side to side, the right angles skip to the right before he kicks. He really needs a real coach to sort him out (Carey, Lockett, Dunstall etc). His attitude at times is also terrible, dropping his head and playing for frees. He's important to us if he can sort himself out, but he's not untradeable. If we got 2 x first rounders that netted Josh Kelly, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

11 minutes ago, MSFebey said:

His kicking routine is atrocious, he's been in the system long enough to sort this out, under pressure it will most always crack. The jog and stutter, ball swinging around in a circle from side to side, the right angles skip to the right before he kicks. He really needs a real coach to sort him out (Carey, Lockett, Dunstall etc). His attitude at times is also terrible, dropping his head and playing for frees. He's important to us if he can sort himself out, but he's not untradeable. If we got 2 x first rounders that netted Josh Kelly, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

It had improved, but was so obvious on the weekend. He is frail. I vote move him on 

32 minutes ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Hogan will always be limited by his attitudinal problems. And what I mean is that he's a big sook who will never change. 

 

Jack Reiwoldt says hello

i just can't fathom trading a 23 year old key forward who should be about to enter the prime of his career 

he's got better every full season that he's played

he is clearly a confidence player who needs to work very hard and his mental calmness on field to settle down, take the set shot in a familiar way, and then not get increasingly flustered and clearly apprehensive ABOUT kicking for goal

despite seemingly buggering his ankle in the second quarter so far he has had:

• shoulder injury against the dogs
• hip flexor impact injury against the cats
• sickness before match against the crows, a game in which he was clearly hampered

despite all this he still got:

• 19 possessions
• 4 marks 
• 1 tackle
• 1 goal 3

before the emergence of plugger mac, he's clearly been the best forward we've had since neitz

the notion of trading him seems utterly absurd to me

Round, opponent, score, disposals, marks

Round 1 :  Geelong 3.0, 16 & 3

Round 2 : Brisbane 5.1, 22 & 9

Round 3 : North 1.2, 26 & 7

Round 4 : HAWKS 1.1, 24 & 3

Round 5 : TIGERS 2.2, 22 & 9

Round 6 : Bombers 2.1, 8 & 5

Round 7 : St.Kilda 3.1, 25 & 7

Round 8 : Suns 3.0, 22 & 8

Round 9 : Carlton 1.1, 15 & 6

Round 10 : Crows 5.0, 20 & 11

Round 11: Bulldogs 5.1, 19 & 10

Its at this point here people were saying he’s in AA form. 10 goals 1 from his last 2 games with a 31 for the year so far. The stage was set for something special on QB, and we got this....

Round 12 : PIES 0.1, 17 & 3

Round 13 : Bye

No need to panic it was just a one off, or was it....

Round 14 : PORT 0.1, 12 & 2

Round 15 : Saints 3.2, 15 & 4

Round 16 : Freo 2.3 19 & 7

Round 17 : Bulldogs 4.1, 18 & 9

More goals against weaker clubs and all is forgotten again. Hold on....

Round 18 : GEELONG 1.1, 14 & 4

Rd 19 : Crows 1.0, 10 & 4

After yesterday’ loss many are now saying he’s been playing injured for weeks, so to help him recover the gets him to line up against the hapless Suns.

Round 20 : Suns 4.1, 22 & 10

Not bad for someone playing injured. But then again as some have already alluded to, a lot of players are carrying injuries this time of year, it all depends on whether or not it suits your narrative.

Round 21 : SWANS  1.3, 19 & 4

The games where the opponents names are in capitals are games where he needed to deliver. You could go into it more and look at how many of those behinds were easy misses, or like yesterday his disposal efficiency which was yesterday quite low. We are yet to play the Giants or the Eagles but looking at that the games against the other 5 top 8 sides and Geelong who are currently 9th there is a clear trend, and that is he goes missing in big games. Again, he’s not the player many thought he was going to become. 

The club should be open to trading him but we don’t need more kids, line up and a ready made player and make it a three way trade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i just can't fathom trading a 23 year old key forward who should be about to enter the prime of his career 

he's got better every full season that he's played

he is clearly a confidence player who needs to work very hard and his mental calmness on field to settle down, take the set shot in a familiar way, and then not get increasingly flustered and clearly apprehensive ABOUT kicking for goal

despite seemingly buggering his ankle in the second quarter so far he has had:

• shoulder injury against the dogs
• hip flexor impact injury against the cats
• sickness before match against the crows, a game in which he was clearly hampered

despite all this he still got:

• 19 possessions
• 4 marks 
• 1 tackle
• 1 goal 3

before the emergence of plugger mac, he's clearly been the best forward we've had since neitz

the notion of trading him seems utterly absurd to me

I think he and TMAC are too similar. We could get some serious quality in return is the reason people are looking at options to move him. 

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Jesse has had 365 disposals, taken 125 marks and kicked 47 goals so far this season playing both as a deep forward and up the ground.

But nah, let's trade him and put our faith in a kid that hasn't really done a thing at senior level.

I worry for our supporter base sometimes.

Nice hyperbole Wise.

If Hogan stalls to recommit and the right trade can be done, he is certainly tradable 

16 hours ago, solly21 said:

Geez calm down Overexaduration do we have another Key Forward waiting i don't think so right now Weidemann is not up to it. I personally think he is carrying something but once on the field your expected to perform. I don't know why they didn't rest him last week to be honest. I would moving on JKH. Why they continue to play JKH i have no idea he is not up to hit. If they would have played Kent instead as bad as we played we may have got over the line.

Yeah, even if he was one of our better players yesterday... and even if he has performed at a much improved level since his recall.

5 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Nice hyperbole Wise.

If Hogan stalls to recommit and the right trade can be done, he is certainly tradable 

Which part is hyperbole?  The cold, hard stats or that I'm worried for some of our supporter base?

You could make an argument that every player has a price.  If someone went overboard and offered ridiculous amounts for Oliver then the club would still consider it.  

But you don't trade 23 year old key forwards that have just kicked 50 goals in a season.  

Okay, if he gives a hint to the club that he wants out then you consider it, but right now he's going nowhere.

2 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Well said Clint. Please DL nerds provide stats on this.

My suspicion is that he has been abysmal in every one of our recent losses and very good in every one of our wins - downhill skier (smoker).

The two exceptions that I can recall are that he was pretty handy against Richmond at night - even snagging one from 50m out.

He also beat two players to get the key matchwinning handball against Adelaide three weeks ago - after a pretty quiet night mind you.

He made a great start to year, but has fallen away and his lack of second efforts are becoming the norm. I've said a few times that he probably needs a stint down back just to give him perspective and remind him how important it is to keep contesting. But now it seems he has a bit of a niggle anyway so there may be more to his loss of form.

One of my biggest disappointment yesterday was in third term on members wing and he and his opponent (think it was Aliir) were coming to fly for a mark and Lloyd was in front and backing in courageously and Hoges didn't even hammer Lloyd with a knee up fly - which would have been a fair tactic and the expected tactic.

 

See below @Deespicable @Clint Bizkit

2 hours ago, MSFebey said:

@Clint Bizkit I saw you ask the question in another thread so thought I'd share here.

Theres no doubt in my mind now after looking at the stats that Hogan is a flat track bully, rarely has a good game against better sides which is a concern.

Hogan: Has kicked only 9 goals in 8 games vs the top 10 at an average of just 1.12 goals per game, being goalless twice and kicking 1 on 4 occasions. In contrast vs the bottom 8 he has kicked 38 goals in 12 games at an average of 3.16 per game. That is flat track territory and gives weight to those that are arguing this point.

TMAC on the other hand this year missed a few games at the start but in his 4 games against the top 10 has booted 15 goals at an average of 3.75 per game and 27 goals in 11 games vs bottom 8 at 2.45 per game.

 

1 minute ago, MSFebey said:

See below @Deespicable @Clint Bizkit

 

Thanks Febel - I thought as much.

It's probably too late in season and nowadays they train in the three specific groups, but I would have loved to have seen Hoges and OMac swap possies a few times this season mid games.

And with Joel Smith out, Jesse is probably our only player (when in form) that is quick enough and good enough in the air to provide an intercept game-saving mark. I saw him way back when he played U18s for WA and I thought what a talent back there. 

FFS, some you clowns need to lay of the Kool-Aid. If we kick 12.16 yesterday instead of 10.18, 99.9% of you wouldn’t be saying to trade Hoges.  Get a grip! He is clearly playing injured, so instead of the trade Hogan BS, Maybe you start asking questions of Simon Goodwin!