Chris Judd in the Age

[mauriesy 7,352]

Here's another example of the experience and maturity of our list.

Number of players with 100 or more games experience:
Hawthorn 17
Collingwood 16*
Geelong 15
Adelaide 15
West Coast 14
Richmond 14
Sydney 13
GWS 13
Melbourne 8

* includes Grundy who plays his 100th game this week.

[praha 11,240]

comparing the experience of those players is pointless. Yes as it stands NOW we are less experienced, but Geelong won a flag 11 years ago. Their core atm including Ablett and Selwood didn't have 200+ games. Same goes for Collingwood, who were actually quite young when they won the flag.

Right now we are actually firmly in the premiership window, and should be overrunning teams like Geelong. Instead we allowed the likes of Ablett, who couldn't outrun my grandma all night, to grab control of the match. It was embarrassing. We took the foot off the pedal and started playing like millionares. We lost that. It had nothing to do with Geelong's experience.

Yes, with experience comes a steady hand and lessons. But how many do they need?

Last year was our 2006. Missing finals would be a huge failure and a major indictment on the club's development intentions. Part of the development involves playing finals. 

Really getting sick of people making excuses for these blokes. They've been in a prime position for 3 straight years now. If they'd gotten the job done the first time maybe they'd know how to hold a lead against a bunch of old men.

Edited July 24, 2018 by praha

[DV8 2,271]

13 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Here's another example of the experience and maturity of our list.

Number of players with 100 or more games experience:
Hawthorn 17
Collingwood 16*
Geelong 15
Adelaide 15
West Coast 14
Richmond 14
Sydney 13
GWS 13
Melbourne 8

* includes Grundy who plays his 100th game this week.

 

yep.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-melbourne-demons?year=2018&sby=13

[bing181 9,328]

52 minutes ago, DV8 said:

He was quoting our midfield soldiers.  The ball distributors.  Not the other positions.

Yes, got that part, but it goes further than that, it's experience across all positions that counts. Look at that last length-of-the-ground play from Geelong on Saturday: Ablett (315) to Stewart (38) to Menzel (67) to Hawkins (226) to Duncan (174) to Tuohy (162).

[bing181 9,328]

47 minutes ago, praha said:

Yes as it stands NOW we are less experienced, but Geelong won a flag 11 years ago.

With a team that was MUCH more experienced than ours. Even then Ablett had 120+ games, and alongside him they had the likes of Scarlett, Ottens, Mooney, Corey, Ling, Chapman, Harley, Milburn all of whom were 150+ gamers (or close to), not to mention players such as Enright, Johnson, Bartel and Kelly (amongst others) who were 100+. We have nothing like that experience.

Edited July 24, 2018 by bing181

[bing181 9,328]

31 minutes ago, praha said:

we are actually firmly in the premiership window

Woah ... this is just delusional.

[mauriesy 7,352]

22 minutes ago, praha said:

Comparing the experience of those players is pointless.

It's an indicator, but it's not pointless and it's not an excuse.

It's simply a comparison of experience as one factor in list maturity, therefore ability to cope with pressure, build physical strength over time, and understand the structures and nuances of the game. Experience without talent means nothing, but talent without experience needs time to build. The problem in the past was that we couldn't get to a certain level of experience because the talent wasn't there and we delisted lots of players before they got to 100+.

I also missed:
Port Adelaide 17
North Melbourne 10

Given the list including these two is the current top 11 teams this year, Melbourne is the definite experience "outlier". That doesn't mean we can't make finals this year, but I think it does mean that we can have real optimism in 2019 and 2020 when the list matures, just as Judd says.

You also missed the fact that the last Geelong premiership side, seven years ago in 2011, had huge experience with the likes of Scarlett, Ling, Mackie, Lonergan, Hunt, Johnson, Enright, Wocjinski, Chapman, Kelly, Stokes, Ottens and Bartel.

 

[MurDoc516 1,529]

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Not a bad article, i agree with a lot of it. My on going problem is we still cannot lock down games at all

The Port game is a prime example. We didn’t score for the last 40 minutes. 

Last saturday the Final Q was another shambles. The effort was there, but no structure. 

The team trains 5 days a week, doing what is what i would love to know??

seems it’s all offensive. 

Defence is an afterthought it seems. 

They kicked 8 straight goals in the last qtr and 16.4 for the night. We kicked 3.5 in last qtr and 14.14 for the night. Like you said effort was their but Geelong got away with that. They had 20 scoring shots and somehow scored a goal 80% of the time. Our defense was fine til O. Mac started getting destroyed and again you have to look at the Midfield losing the clearances 8 to 1 in that period of time.

[MurDoc516 1,529]

8 hours ago, small but forward said:

Our footy club has the turning circle of a cruise liner.

What I struggle with is Collingwood- they’ve been crap for so long and are suddenly top 2/4 and flag contenders. Why isn’t that us? Arguably, (IMO), we’ve got a more talented list, I just cannot reconcile this.

Didn't we all laugh when every stats site said Collingwood had the best midfield in the comp last year. Low and behold all their missed kicks start hitting and now Pendlebury, De Goey, Sidebottom and Grundy look unstoppable. We are technically the best inside team in the comp (aka the old sydney) and we got destroyed by them inside and out.

[MurDoc516 1,529]

5 hours ago, Dr.D said:

 You're a goose. I actually analyse the fixture. I look at the teams we have to come, and I think we will win 2 more games. And why would I expect 100% effort when we haven't given 100% in our games this year aka. the saints game and the pies game. Do yourself a favour and do the ladder predictor and tell me where you have us finishing. 

you can give 100% effort and still lose. Common misconception going around. If you were out on the footy field and lost a game would you like it when some loud mouth fan accuses you of not giving 100%?  

[dpositive 1,672]

Started this the other day and the site crashed and I lost it so I'll try again without reading the whole thread.

I hope Goodwin is smarter than most.

He does have more experience than most.

I hope he understands tapering and peaking.

We have shown that when we play our best we can beat anyone, and score heavily.

We were 5 goals up at Cardinia park.

If we play and win all these games by goals we become the hunted. We are now the chokers.

Let the others concentrate on that. remind the players they refused the pre season mental toughness experience .

We have maintained our % unlike last year and now limp into the eight to then produce our best for six or seven games. 

Too smart????

[DV8 2,271]

50 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Yes, got that part, but it goes further than that, it's experience across all positions that counts. Look at that last length-of-the-ground play from Geelong on Saturday: Ablett (315) to Stewart (38) to Menzel (67) to Hawkins (226) to Duncan (174) to Tuohy (162).

Of course it is bing, but he's being specific to the engine. 

In our past, we have had talent across the field, and come up short... not as strong thru the middle as we should have been... too many easily intimidated types thru our journey. 

We need to make sure this time around that we have THE dominant midfield, in terms of tough hard contested play, and hard running/workers.  this is why I think JKH may be kept on?

[pineapple dee 2,892]

9 hours ago, MSFebey said:

Why didn't he end up coming to the Dees?

Our change rooms weren't up to his lofty standards. Plus Carlton had bigger paper bags with more in them.

[Rogue 585]

7 hours ago, old dee said:

So you think honourable losses are good?

You said that no other Club has honourable losses.

That's farcical.

[Dr.D 1,771]

2 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

you can give 100% effort and still lose. Common misconception going around. If you were out on the footy field and lost a game would you like it when some loud mouth fan accuses you of not giving 100%?  

i'm sorry but no, players definitely don't always give 100%. players are human and their work ethic drops off. some games when melbourne don't come to play, thats a mental attitude thing. which is hard to train. you can't tell me the players that played against the pies played at the same defensive intent as the games against geelong or port Adelaide.

thats also why finals football is different to home and away football. teams step up, theres more at stake and players are dialled in mentally. 

 

[Pennant St Dee 13,301]

17 hours ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

I agree if we miss finals it would be a choke, however the Geelong side played in a prelim in 2005, so one could say they were actually further advanced in 06 than we are now. 

End of the day it isn't like for like but there are similarities. 

Being pedantic but Cats got knocked out in the Semi in 05 when Nick Davis kicked 4 goals in 10 mins. They beat us in the elimination final the previous week when King caved Jeff Whites face in

04 they got beat by Brissy in the prelim

[dee-tox 4,835]

Comparisons are odious!

This team can do it but needs to realise what it takes. Develop a ruthless streak and a hate for losing that ensures Saturday night never happens again.

[pitmaster 3,576]

22 hours ago, Roost It said:

It’s  a very simplistic article. It’s basically correct but my 11 year old son could write it

Smart kid. That Geelong history before he was born.

[pitmaster 3,576]

4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Being pedantic but Cats got knocked out in the Semi in 05 when Nick Davis kicked 4 goals in 10 mins. They beat us in the elimination final the previous week when King caved Jeff Whites face in

 

With a boot...and their rsole coach said King could have hurt his foot!

[Smokey 4,389]

17 hours ago, Dr.D said:

 You're a goose. I actually analyse the fixture. I look at the teams we have to come, and I think we will win 2 more games. And why would I expect 100% effort when we haven't given 100% in our games this year aka. the saints game and the pies game. Do yourself a favour and do the ladder predictor and tell me where you have us finishing. 

Whoa, you actually analyse the fixture? Congratulations on that man, you must be stoked. You should probably start a career in professional gambling with these credentials of yours. 

Now as footy is something I actually get enjoyment out of (which doesn't appear to be the case for you, which I find sad) - rather than waste my time trying to predict results for the rest of the season, I think I'll just kick back and watch it as it unfold and hope we are good enough to turn things around after the weekend. 

That's the magic of footy - hope. If you have none, seriously - why on earth to you bother following a team? 

Go outside and get some sun. 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I thought last year's final round loss to the Pies was the loss we had to have.

Since then, we've managed to lose to the Cats (twice), the Saints and Port in games that we absolutely should've won.

When does all this wonderful 'learning' finally translate into winning the close games that:

1. we deserved to win; and

2. arguably we did not deserve to win.

For all of these frustrating losses that can be put to good 'learning' experiences, I've not seen any good evidence yet that we are closer to winning the close games (which seems to be what the really good teams consistently do).

Our percentage is the second in the comp, we have the most inside 50s, and yet we're holding onto the 8 by a knife's edge.

That article was more relevant to the Demons of 2017. IMO there's absolutely no good learning in these honourable losses if we miss the finals this year - just more fury and frustration.

 

[old dee 23,870]

23 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I thought last year's final round loss to the Pies was the loss we had to have.

Since then, we've managed to lose to the Cats (twice), the Saints and Port in games that we absolutely should've won.

When does all this wonderful 'learning' finally translate into winning the close games that:

1. we deserved to win; and

2. arguably we did not deserve to win.

For all of these frustrating losses that can be put to good 'learning' experiences, I've not seen any good evidence yet that we are closer to winning the close games (which seems to be what the really good teams consistently do).

Our percentage is the second in the comp, we have the most inside 50s, and yet we're holding onto the 8 by a knife's edge.

That article was more relevant to the Demons of 2017. IMO there's absolutely no good learning in these honourable losses if we miss the finals this year - just more fury and frustration.

 

You have my vote RB.

[praha 11,240]

34 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I thought last year's final round loss to the Pies was the loss we had to have.

Since then, we've managed to lose to the Cats (twice), the Saints and Port in games that we absolutely should've won.

When does all this wonderful 'learning' finally translate into winning the close games that:

1. we deserved to win; and

2. arguably we did not deserve to win.

For all of these frustrating losses that can be put to good 'learning' experiences, I've not seen any good evidence yet that we are closer to winning the close games (which seems to be what the really good teams consistently do).

Our percentage is the second in the comp, we have the most inside 50s, and yet we're holding onto the 8 by a knife's edge.

That article was more relevant to the Demons of 2017. IMO there's absolutely no good learning in these honourable losses if we miss the finals this year - just more fury and frustration.

 

The only lesson left to have now is finals pressure.

[Zoiikgarden 134]

23 hours ago, loges said:

I could write a long winded reply, but all I'll say is we're all impatient, I've been supporting Melbourne since 1960.

So you were on board for our last premiership. Unfortunately I married a Ds supporter in 1973 and became a fanatic! Not too much joy in the years since... getting older ... success needs to be SOON!!!

[praha 11,240]

2 minutes ago, Zoiikgarden said:

So you were on board for our last premiership. Unfortunately I married a Ds supporter in 1973 and became a fanatic! Not too much joy in the years since... getting older ... success needs to be SOON!!!

The trick is to not factor in long periods because they are irrelevant to the current *team's* success. From that perspective, finals time is now because we have the talent and opportunity, and we are in year 5 of the Roos rebuild. For the club more broadly yes success needs to come soon but we can't burden the current crop with the ineptness of 50 years.