POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[kev martin 9,951]

16 minutes ago, ding said:

Man, are you thin skinned. Get a grip.

 

Why do you want to make labels about me.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

1 hour ago, 000 said:

I'm not a crier, I am a fighter but bullies are best ignored IMO. 

Stay on @000 - you can block those folk .

[bringbackthebiff 654]

4 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Again, without knowing if there’s any options behind the kicker it’s in my opinion Trac’s ‘bomb’ was the right play in an attempt to gain a forward 50 stoppage.

Apologies if the pic isn’t very clear, I count 8 Cats between Trac and the 50. I see 5 Melbourne jumpers with only 1 demanding the ball. Umpire’s arms are waving play on with Trac still possessing the ball. 

Percentage for error was way to high! We needed composure. Torps can easily slice off the boot, there were geelong players everywhere if that happened. Just need to settle and keep our hands on the ball.

[kev martin 9,951]

21 minutes ago, ding said:

Man, are you thin skinned. Get a grip.

 

I don't get how you are helping. Or are you just here to hurt me? 

 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

1 minute ago, bringbackthebiff said:

Percentage for error was way to high! We needed composure. Torps can easily slice off the boot, there were geelong players everywhere if that happened. Just need to settle and keep our hands on the ball.

A torp is risky. A drop punt down the line could have resulted in the same thing. He sent the ball down towards our best contested mark in Gawn. What else was Trac to do when the ump clearly waved play on?

There’s maybe one short risky option on that pic as pointed out earlier. I see Lloyd and Bartel were critical of Trac also in the dissecting video claiming he panicked. I don’t believe this kick cost us the game.

[Diamond_Jim 12,598]

Looking at the frame posted by Dee Z I cannot see any alternative for Petracca other than going deep.

It's a classic zone defence by Geelong. Not man to man but within striking distance of all the alternatives. Probably the only alternate play was for the MFC player at the centre circle to run into the vacant space on the HFF. A risky shot at that stage

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

9 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Looking at the frame posted by Dee Z I cannot see any alternative for Petracca other than going deep.

It's a classic zone defence by Geelong. Not man to man but within striking distance of all the alternatives. Probably the only alternate play was for the MFC player at the centre circle to run into the vacant space on the HFF. A risky shot at that stage

I agree, I don’t think Petracca did anything wrong. He got the ball deep and close to line. A failure to force stoppages at the death killed us.

Edited July 23, 2018 by america de cali

[SFebes 4,884]

Trac got the desired next best result (OOB), but WTF was he thinking?

[Redleg 40,974]

16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

A failure to force stoppages at the death killed us.

And that is it.

However, dissecting the last 2 minutes also ignores the errors earlier,  that lead you to that point. For example,  if Tom Mac, our best set shot, iced his 20 metre shot straight in front, we are 5 points more ahead when the siren goes. 

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

20 minutes ago, MSFebey said:

Trac got the desired next best result (OOB), but WTF was he thinking?

it would have been fine if he went with the conventional drop punt... we wouldn't even be discussing it.

[SFebes 4,884]

1 minute ago, Danelska said:

it would have been fine if he went with the conventional drop punt... we wouldn't even be discussing it.

Would've been same result and I don't blame him at all, just seemed like an odd thing to do at that time. Perhaps he was trying to get over a wall of Cats players but percentages of it coming off is low, if it drops short Cats are out. Anyway, let's win next week and have a crack at this flag!

[highroller 112]

the thing that screwed us isn't the Petracca bomb it was Brayshaw handballing in the last 30-40 seconds - if he goes to ground and causes a stoppage we win - even if he gets pinged their isn't enough time for them.

Failing this the other option to save the game was OMac when he is running back with Tomahawk through the centre of the ground, he knows he is outpositioned and Tomahawk will mark it so giving away a free kick where he actually brings Tomahawk to ground would save the game as well. He has to reset stand up again etc would have been enough to win it for us

[Skin Deeamond 339]

46 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I am talking about the last 25 seconds and not the final 3 minutes when the ball was inside our 50 and a swarm of our players did not try to kill the loose ball for a stopage but were trying to get the ball out or waiting for the release. At one stage Brayshaw picks the ball up and then fires off a short handpass quickly to no one when tackled. He should have swallowed the ball. I doubt he would have been pinged for holding the ball in that pressure situation. It would have been a 60/40 chance for a bounce up and if a free was paid, structures would have been reset  and time would have likely ran out. This was the killer tactical error that allowed Geelong out.

 

But the players didn’t necessarily know there was only 20 seconds left.

[Deemania since 56 6,659]

2 hours ago, Stormy Dee said:

Don’t forget that the players don’t know the exact amount of time left. A free could be highly disadvantageous if there’s enough time to go coast to coast and kick a goal down the other end (which is what happened for other reasons).

But the internal clocks of the players at that stage of the game (at least within the last 10 mins) echo: Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick and why not? The umpires delay the ball-ups until the MFC opposition are in place, the Geelong players delay frees and marks being taken as we go forward, and the Filth have radio-controlled tiny handpieces linked directly with the timekeeper with the siren button that indicate: 'Siren, now! Siren, now!' should they be ahead any time after 24 mins in the final quarter. 

[ding 5,126]

45 minutes ago, 000 said:

I don't get how you are helping. Or are you just here to hurt me? 

 

3 replies to my 1 post.... Boy you have issues. 

 Nobody is out to hurt you but you are trying to act all offended like a precious millennial.

Put me on ignore buddy, honest feedback is too much for your delicate constitution.

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

14 minutes ago, Stormy Dee said:

But the players didn’t necessarily know there was only 20 seconds left.

The players would have been informed. The runner was out taking KH off the ground with under two minutes left. No doubt he would have told the players as would the Geelong runner if he was out. 

[bringbackthebiff 654]

54 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

A torp is risky. A drop punt down the line could have resulted in the same thing. He sent the ball down towards our best contested mark in Gawn. What else was Trac to do when the ump clearly waved play on?

There’s maybe one short risky option on that pic as pointed out earlier. I see Lloyd and Bartel were critical of Trac also in the dissecting video claiming he panicked. I don’t believe this kick cost us the game.

It didn’t cost us the game, it was just an example of lacking composure. 2 options a) command a player to him and hit the flat 15-20m pass (he has the skills to do this) or the percentage drop punt down the line to a contest.

As an opposition player you would gain confidence from this. You would be thinking “they have no idea what they are doing”

[kev martin 9,951]

3 minutes ago, ding said:

3 replies to my 1 post.... Boy you have issues. 

 Nobody is out to hurt you but you are trying to act all offended like a precious millennial.

Put me on ignore buddy, honest feedback is too much for your delicate constitution.

I am not one having a go at you. You know nothing about me.

The three reply's were just my flow of thoughts about your inappropriatness. 

Honest does not make it kind or constructive. 

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

27 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And that is it.

However, dissecting the last 2 minutes also ignores the errors earlier,  that lead you to that point. For example,  if Tom Mac, our best set shot, iced his 20 metre shot straight in front, we are 5 points more ahead when the siren goes. 

Yes but if Tmac had nailed the goal the game resets. Geelong could have cleared and goaled from the reset. The dynamics of the game are always in perpetual change. What would be the odds of Geelong scoring 8 straight in the last quarter? A lot of luck also went their way. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by america de cali

[beelzebub 23,380]

21 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And that is it.

However, dissecting the last 2 minutes also ignores the errors earlier,  that lead you to that point. For example,  if Tom Mac, our best set shot, iced his 20 metre shot straight in front, we are 5 points more ahead when the siren goes. 

yes and no...any number of events prior change the present as it were.  Every moment played...is in its own 'present' so you can really only look at the context of those instances as they unfolded. When Trac has the ball there is actually someone directly inboard ( cant quite make him out )...foolishly hes still walking forward...he should have held his ground ...perfect chance to make the switch and open the fat side up. Trace really should have kicked it to him straight away...but as we nearly always do...we dawdle...downfield becomes traffic jam.

People should have provided options.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:04 AM, Radar Detector said:

Probably not appropriate to opine about another poster’s parenting.

He brought it up

It's a game

[Jaded No More 68,966]

3 hours ago, 000 said:

My last word on Demonland!

You can do your training observations yourself.

Your not playing, you're a spectator. 

You have imbalanced thoughts and live vicariously through others. 

To claim everyone on Demonland agrees with you is delusional. 

Winning is not everything!

There is nothing wrong with losing nor with being last.

You superior, shallow people, who value inequality. Squash the weak and worship the powerful. You poor people.

I know some agree with me. Only BULLIES isolate others telling them they are by themselves.

I have enough stress in life then to put myself out to you kind of critics. I like a life of freedom, not one where I have to fillter myself in-order to avoid your accusations, no matter how subtle, it is still unkind. 

So I'll stop before you get serious. 

I have seen some cruel statements on Demonland. Get over yourselves.

Thankyou to those who supported my post. I appreciated your kindness.

From kevin martin

Dude, take a chill pill. Jesus. 

Also block me if you think I’m such a mean bully for disagreeing with you, or grow a thicker skin  

Ain’t nobody got time to quote one post 15 times to have a conversation with yourself, given I stopped responding to you that bloody long ago!

And by the way, you reduced from my post that I told you to leave the forum, which is both wrong and unhinged. I clarified what I meant and you still kept carrying on like a wounded child. That’s on you, not me. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Jaded

[old55 23,625]

Generally I think our strategy was reasonable in the last quarter, we tried to win the game and 3.5 to 8.0 is just a freak outcome.  Stacking the backline and trying to hold on is not the way to win - we managed to level the momentum in the mid part of the quarter and keep scoring - if JKH kicks the goal we win.  Yes we could have switched OMac and Frost a play or two earlier.  The real problem was further up the ground - we were getting killed at the stoppages - Ablett 14 possession in the last.

Specifically in the last two minutes, I think Petracca's torp was a reasonable play, he went deep down the line to an even contest and got the ball OOB inside our 50.  I also don't think Jeffy did the wrong thing either, his kick went towards the top of the square again to an even contest, he didn't have a wild ping.  Suggestions that he should have taken it OOB are ridiculous, he would've been pinged for sure.  Bernie's spoil back into the 50 was a decent play as well - that's where we like to lock it in.

I think there were three big factors, one out of our control and two in our control:

1. Max having to go off - at the boundary stoppage after Trac's torp TMac is telling Max to go back deep and he'll take the ruck but Max has blood and has to go off.  If Max is deep it's unlikely Geelong marks that last play.
2. Lewis giving Menzel too much rope on the wing.  I don't know the full team rules and Lewis was guarding the corridor but surely that's man-on-man time, he was miles off Menzel and knows he doesn't have the closing speed to make a contest.
3. No-one running with Duncan from our forward 50 when he receives the handball from Hawkins - someone just had to go with him.

I think there's great learning opportunity out of this loss, like the loss against St.Kilda - issues were exposed that cannot be ignored

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

On 7/22/2018 at 12:07 PM, Lord Travis said:

INCOMING UMPIRE RANT

The Dangerfield ruck free cost us a goal. It was technically a free kick, though he definitely exaggerated it.

The 50 against Harmes for being within the 10 metre area of a player who marked also lead directly to a goal. That was an INCORRECT umpiring decision which cost us a goal. The opposition player marked it. Harmes put his hands up and ran attempted to get out of the area and the umpire blew the whistle. There was physically nothing more Harmes could've done in that scenario, and the umpire got it wrong.

Four of Geelongs goals in the first half came as a result of free kicks that were incorrect and shifted momentum. We let ourselves down by not defending better in the last quarter, so we have to suck up the loss. However, we lost by two points. 2. Geelong were gifted 3-4 goals from incorrect umpiring decisions. We were not. The umpires unarguably influenced the end result of the match. I hope the club lodges a formal complaint. 

I don't understand how umpires can categorically make mistakes in their job with no consequences. If I made repeated errors in my job, I'd be warned and then sacked. Yet we see umpires like Nicholls running round year after year despite making mistake after mistake. I understand it is hard to officiate a game of AFL with all the pathetic rules at this point, but if you can't do it without making mistakes, then you get demoted and trained until you can do your job properly.

Hogan also marked 10m out in the 3rd - if not a mark definite arm chop. Nup, play on. You don't like blaming them for losses but that's 3 games this year we could argue we've been robbed (Port, Saints, Cats)

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

Lewis would have been 30 metres away at Tracs 5 o'clock (i would like to assume manned by a Geelong player).

Edited July 23, 2018 by david_neitz_is_my_dad