38 minutes ago, DV8 said:

I'm not a gambler 'timbo', I don't bet on anything.   no horses, no tattslotto, nada.

But I do invest in things.

no worries 'dv8'

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

There is no doubt that the video shown on the footy shows highlights a distinct lack of effort, in pressuring the ball carrier and the man you are on. It showed Saints players busting a gut to create the overlap, while our players never went with them.That is what Goodwin was talking about. The Saints killed us in effort and gut running and that is why with some umpire help and poor disposal from us, a lowly side beat us..

How can a team with everything to play for, coming off two losses, staring at another season wasted by missing finals, not work as hard as a team with nothing to play for, who have won 2 games?

Application? mental issues? laziness? wrong players in wrong positions? pace? too tall? taking it easy? drinking our own bath water? 

As Gawn said, how did we not come out firing after 2 losses? He was the only player who played 4 outstanding quarters. The rest of his mates, were asleep for 3. 

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

And he is questioning them without actually knowing what's going on at the club.  So, in effect, he is no better than any of us here.  

Wise I’m not one to presume to know any better than those in the inner sanctum, but the vision and the stats associated with them are pretty damning atm and the repetition of these issues particularly over the past 3 losses without appearing to be addressed in any way are a concern for me , I think we are within our rights as members to question and have answers on the following : 

-the lack of two way running, 

- too many players trying to impact and contest and leaving their man free and able to breakaway meters ahead (exacerbates point 1 above)

- lack of speed and the associated selections (e.g. bringing in petty instead of frost)

- often playing too high press leaving defense exposed (further exacerbated by lack of quick defenders and mids running back - why frost might have been handy)

- lack of forward pressure then enabling opposition to break away - again causing opposition to rebound unopposed and put defenders under even more pressure.

—Selections not simply based on endeavour at training but picking your best 22 if form reasonably warrants it, I get the culture aspect that Goodwin is trying to achieve , but why Garlett or frost is not in is when we have these issues is a bit hard to understand to the uninformed 

This has been happening pretty much since the freo loss early last year , I can’t believe that St Kilda could have such improved scoring efficiency per inside 50 entries for any other reason than us being so poorly set up and the lack of pace. Yes they had a real crack too but then then on paper we should have had their measure 

Was it Jack Steven that said on radio that st kilda dilberately set out to copy ports approach to rebound and overlap on us? Why can’t the coaching box see this and have a plan b? Why does it take until the last quarter for us to do something about it?

To date I have trusted Goodwin and co to be better placed and know far better than any of us , however it becomes very hard to keep trusting when it keeps happening and there’s no change or suggestions that it’s being fixed or even understood. Maybe he has a grand plan that he is sticking too , but all I know is that we are now staring down the barrel of another season not playing finals which is simply unacceptable. 

If we’re not inside the 8 after rd 23 and we’ve failed to do anything about it over the next 8 weeks then Goodwin has a lot to answer for in my opinion. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Wise I’m not one to presume to know any better than those in the inner sanctum, but the vision and the stats associated with them are pretty damning atm and the repetition of these issues particularly over the past 3 losses without appearing to be addressed in any way are a concern for me , I think we are within our rights as members to question and have answers on the following : 

-the lack of two way running, 

- too many players trying to impact and contest and leaving their man free and able to breakaway meters ahead (exacerbates point 1 above)

- lack of speed and the associated selections (e.g. bringing in petty instead of frost)

- often playing too high press leaving defense exposed (further exacerbated by lack of quick defenders and mids running back - why frost might have been handy)

- lack of forward pressure then enabling opposition to break away - again causing opposition to rebound unopposed and put defenders under even more pressure.

—Selections not simply based on endeavour at training but picking your best 22 if form reasonably warrants it, I get the culture aspect that Goodwin is trying to achieve , but why Garlett or frost is not in is when we have these issues is a bit hard to understand to the uninformed 

This has been happening pretty much since the freo loss early last year , I can’t believe that St Kilda could have such improved scoring efficiency per inside 50 entries for any other reason than us being so poorly set up and the lack of pace. Yes they had a real crack too but then then on paper we should have had their measure 

Was it Jack Steven that said on radio that st kilda dilberately set out to copy ports approach to rebound and overlap on us? Why can’t the coaching box see this and have a plan b? Why does it take until the last quarter for us to do something about it?

To date I have trusted Goodwin and co to be better placed and know far better than any of us , however it becomes very hard to keep trusting when it keeps happening and there’s no change or suggestions that it’s being fixed or even understood. Maybe he has a grand plan that he is sticking too , but all I know is that we are now staring down the barrel of another season not playing finals which is simply unacceptable. 

If we’re not inside the 8 after rd 23 and we’ve failed to do anything about it over the next 8 weeks then Goodwin has a lot to answer for in my opinion. 

 

 

I wasn't disagreeing with any of that.  I was more commenting on the fact that Roos questioned why certain players weren't being selected, and then clarified this by saying he hadn't seen these players at Casey and therefore couldn't really comment accurately about it.  I was saying that really goes put him in the same boat as us.  The dissection of what went wrong on the weekend is more than valid and I wouldn't really argue any of it.  Cheers.

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I wasn't disagreeing with any of that.  I was more commenting on the fact that Roos questioned why certain players weren't being selected, and then clarified this by saying he hadn't seen these players at Casey and therefore couldn't really comment accurately about it.  I was saying that really goes put him in the same boat as us.  The dissection of what went wrong on the weekend is more than valid and I wouldn't really argue any of it.  Cheers.

Your right Wise, he did clarify that he hadn’t been following form at Casey, and he did know that Hunt was injured when Brown (I think ) raised why he wasn’t playing. I just found the way he responded was quite different to previous comments he’s made on our structures and game plan during the year , he has always seemed to be quite upbeat on our progress but last night he seemed genuinely at a loss to explain why we’ve set up the way we have and don’t seem to fix these issues, I know he’s removed from the club now and an outsider like all of us,  but he watches our games and is a supporter and he’s often said the “old “ Melbourne is long gone , I just think he seems as equally confused and frustrated as we are, which is a concern . 

Will be interesting to see if they press Lewis again on this tonight on 360, but knowing Robbo it will be limited to bath water drinking and nothing useful like addressing structures or gameplan. I just hope Lewis isn’t as dimissive as he was last week when they raised Garry Lyons criticisms from a week or so back , something to the effect that Lewis said that everything gets analysed 10x more by the coaching staff then anyone in the media or outside the club could possibly do and that they’re best placed to know what’s actually wrong and what needs to get fixed. I guess that response only holds up when we get results and these problems seem to get fixed or at least responded to in some way, here’s hoping the MFC brains trust are on to it as we speak 

 

4 hours ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Why can’t the coaching box see this and have a plan b?

You're presuming the coaching box can't see this. I'd suggest that the coaching box see exactly what's going on, and then some.

But this idea that we can then suddenly switch to Plan B, and everything will be hunky dory ... if that was even half true, no team would ever loose a match of footy, and every team would win the GF every year. Though as if this whole Plan B idea existed in the first place - it took Paul Roos 2+ years to build a half-way decent Plan A, yet alone developing Plans B, C, D etc. to use as contingencies.

Players play/execute well, you give yourself a chance. If they don't, no amount of Plans B, selections, positional changes etc. are going to do much more than minimise the damage.

5 hours ago, Jaded said:

How can a team with everything to play for, coming off two losses, staring at another season wasted by missing finals, not work as hard as a team with nothing to play for, who have won 2 games?

Application? mental issues? laziness? wrong players in wrong positions? pace? too tall? taking it easy? drinking our own bath water? 

As Gawn said, how did we not come out firing after 2 losses? He was the only player who played 4 outstanding quarters. The rest of his mates, were asleep for 3. 

Probably all of the issues you raised and more.

20 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree 100% with Roos

Frost was brought in to play on big agile forwards and WOULD have proved vital v Cox v Dixon v Membrey.  Too late now.  Frost must be played for next 8 games. If his not up to it, then wave goodbye. I think he has the goods. 

Garlett needs to play AFL. He is not interested in VFL. Again play him or delist him at year end. He has averaged 10 disposals, 3 tackles, and 2 goals a game for the past 4 years. That is what small forwards do. And he provides the pace and crumbing we need. 

Just thought I'd point out that Frost has never done much of anything at AFL level but somehow you believe he's going to fix our problems.......

6 hours ago, Jaded said:

How can a team with everything to play for, coming off two losses, staring at another season wasted by missing finals, not work as hard as a team with nothing to play for, who have won 2 games?

.......

Im not sure...but by golly they found a way ??

( In spades ?)

On 7/1/2018 at 6:14 PM, goodwindees said:

Spot on Martin.  Selection has been and continues to be ONE of this Football Dept's greatest knock. 

I wrote in an earlier Post that I believe poor Selection has cost us 3 games this year.  

Geelong - Maynard & Wagner

Port - Tyson & T Smith

Saints - Petty & Tyson.

 

 

Agree. 

Geelong spot on, Wagner oh boy!

Port we looked too small down back at selection, and too slow with Tyson, Lewis & Vince in the team, and no forward crumbers in Garlett or Spargo! Plus umpires screwed us, Melksham decisions Q4, enough said.

Then against Saints still no Garlett or Spargo! Tyson on a wing where he is out of position and snail slow! Then sacrificing Petty who from what I could read was doing ok at VFL level but not great, so added to Joel Smith, we had two kids effectively replacing Vince & Lever roles. TMac & Jetta obviously NQR!

This week want some speed, a crumbed, some height/experience in backline! 

 

Seems to me that turgid old patterns are starting to emerge. In them dark days players like Mckenzie, Mat Jones, Ritchie  etc would be in and out of the side. It meant simply we were going nowhere. Today's Mat Jones is, unfortunately, Tyson. 

In the meantime, players who have and can contribute - Garlett, for example - are made scapegoats by a coaching staff in perilous danger of returning to the same useless in and out rotations which got us nowhere.

It would also seem to me that, seeing how we persevered with the mighty Oscar for so long, a similar investment in proven players like Garlett, players with serious attributes like Frost, players like Pedersen who have made terrific contributions in the past and project players like Stretch are worth  persevering with instead of the current policy of either simply ignoring, or playing yo yo style, in one week out the next,  while the likes of Hannan and Harmes and Neal-Bullen are given week in week out endorsement to mainly produce sweet f-all. 

 

2 hours ago, Roost It said:

Just thought I'd point out that Frost has never done much of anything at AFL level but somehow you believe he's going to fix our problems.......

Just thought l let you know  he has played some good games although at times he makes mistakes plays on the edge and is big bodied and stands at 195 cm.Can break the lines. Unlike Joel Smith or Petty wet behind the ears and no disrespect to Petty, they never took the game on and that is even a bigger mistake. You might not like Frosty's potential however he is our best bet for mine. I am sure there are others that agree and like to see him given a chance.

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned but Roos said on The Couch last night that whilst he hasn’t watched Casey he’s surprised that Frost & Garlett in the side. In fact, he said that he thought a Frost would’ve been the first person to have replaced Lever as it would have allowed other players in defence like Hibberd to play their natural game. 

‘Anyway, what would Roos know, he put a line totally through Lynden Dunn about 3 years too soon and and he still thinks Picks 2 & 20 for Tyson & Salem is a good deal.  

10 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Just thought l let you know  he has played some good games although at times he makes mistakes plays on the edge and is big bodied and stands at 195 cm.Can break the lines. Unlike Joel Smith or Petty wet behind the ears and no disrespect to Petty, they never took the game on and that is even a bigger mistake. You might not like Frosty's potential however he is our best bet for mine. I am sure there are others that agree and like to see him given a chance.

I’d be happy to see him given a chance but to say he must play the rest of the season doesn’t work for me. He’s had chances in the past, his Casey form is one thing. His disposal is questionable and I’m not convinced by his decision making 

Picking Weideman after every Coburg game! 

22 minutes ago, old dee said:

Picking Weideman after every Coburg game! 

Do you think he'll make it OD?

37 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Do you think he'll make it OD?

Very doubtful SF imo.

On 7/1/2018 at 8:17 PM, Deefiant said:

Not sure about this. Have heard from the inside demon podcast that goody will get around to every player and tell them what they need to do. 

IF this is true and it hadn’t happened already then it is an indictment on the coach and the entire FD.

Surely it is his job to do this with every player every week?