34 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Looking at the Casey stats v Bombers... Frost & Kielty not bashing the door down from that perspective. Do we take a risk with Baker after seeing what they did to Petty?

 

Different players in different positions. Its easy to get exposed down back if you aren't experienced (anyone in football knows this). It was silly to play Petty, it was really a stupid move and a played out accordingly. Bringing is Baker is different because his license will be to run, that is what he is good at. Accountability isn't as important for Baker as it was for Petty. Clearly Petty was playing a more difficult position, and it is a difficult position, that is why its important to have experienced players to fill that role while the youth learn how to play the role. Petty is still learning but it was a big mistake to have him learn on the big stage. He was shown up and we lost. It could be argued that it was a big reasons why we lost.

1 hour ago, Demon17 said:

My impeccable sources tell my Tyson has had no conversations or feedback from the FD as to a) why dropped,  and b) why re-selected.

Either way, something smells and this approach could apply to others also.

I was dismayed to see him lining up on the wing today. Have they learnt nothing!

From the  horses mouth, the same happened to Brayshaw, early in the year.  He said that Jones organised a meeting with Goodwin.  In that meeting Goodwin told Gus what he had to do to get selected.  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-29/i-wasnt-the-best-teammate-brayshaw  No sooner does Goodwin tell him what he needs to do, he puts his head down, changes his behaviours and in no time is back in the team.

At the time I was rather gobsmacked that Goodwin had not given Gus feedback but I didn't dwell on it. 

Now, your post makes me wonder if others (Garlett, Hunt (pre injury), Stretch, Frost) are being given the feedback they need to improve.  Its a real worry if what you describe is more widespread.

54 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Where were all you “clearly not ready” geniuses on Thursday?

He had a horrible game, no doubt about that. He had his confidence crushed when he got outmarked in the first contest with Battle - that just lead to a death spiral of mistakes. That miskick was the sort of error that AFL players only make when they’ve been broken. 

I highly doubt that’s the sort of form he showed in the VFL though. He had his confidence shot in that first contest. It could have just as easily gone the other way.

But where were our leaders to give the kid a reassuring pat on the back, reinforce to just go for the next contest, reinforce stick to the basics, reinforce what he does well.  I certainly didn't see anyone go to him.  No wonder the kid was broken. 

His teammates and our leaders let him down today.  Someone should have picked him up physically and euphemistically!   Lets hope the scars aren't too deep.

Petty will be good. Clearly picked long before he was ready. Hopefully this game won't totally destroy his confidence. We went in top-heavy and slow. Shocking selections. If TMac was doubtful, which it seems he was, then he shouldn't have played either. Pedo would have been better. Spargo should also have played. Fritsch was great but probably played to be the small forward. It seems that that FD thought that that could blood Petty because we were going to win the game easy. Yeeeeesh! Have we learnt nothing? New also wasn't up to his normal standard. I would have preferred to see Bernie and Stretch out there.

Tyson still has value but not on the wing.

 

Edited July 1, 20186 yr by btdemon

1 hour ago, martin said:

Hard to imagine that anything could top the selection of Maynard in round one and Tim Smith last week ,but the choice of Harrison Petty is simply staggering.

The boy has shown some promise at Casey but not outstanding. Added to that he is a skinny, underdeveloped 18 year old. I actually feel sorry for him and hope he develops into a fine player.

Both Frost and Keilty have been impassablee videnced again yesterday against the Bombers. Why these two have been ovelooked is perplexing particularly in the case of Frost. Yes, neither are champions, but a long way ahead of Petty atm. Frost adds a dynamic of pace sadly lacking.

Many reasons we lost close encounters against the Cats, Power and Saints but when it's so tight one player can make the difference. I do not look forward to any Thursday selection night.

Then l will start a petition against Goodwin to bring in Frosty . However l will have to UNFUGAZI so he will listen.

43 minutes ago, CelebratingJade said:

No mention of Weideman here

Am I missing something... ?

He still looks miles away from being a senior footballer

Too many times he had a chance to clunk it but his hands wasn't strong enough. I was more disappointed in weids game than petty.

Petty form in the vfl was good enough to promote but he had a really bad day. Lost confidence and got worse. 

He will be ok but he got his taste and needs to hit the gym and learn. 1st year compared to weids third. 

Weid needs to step up his game. Not winning 50-50 contests or even 60-40. 

 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

But Nasher, as you know VFL form on tiny grounds slower play .. some players look good! Unfortunately he is a long way from it lacks pace and a poor left foot looked like under 12 stuff! 

These professionals in the FD ARE PAID BIG BUCKS TO GET IT RIGHT!

With this one NQR

Why do you say that PF. 

But, There is one similarity between the 2.

 

Both were/are trimming the list, and building it to be better in the future.   Both trying the players, literally. In both senses.  Watt better way to sort wheat from chaff.

 

Who says the Footy Dept' are on the same page as you PF,,,  Re our teams position and readiness for the Big Dance???????

IMO we are not, and are still a little way off Re the List.  bathwater in plastic bottles  should be banned around Mfc.

 

We can play very well, when let do it by other teams.  When not, we still can't. 

Front-Runner is still in our DNA, at this point.

 

BUT we're getting better every season, as witnessed by the ladder differences in the past 3 years.

39 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Sorry but we are supporters. It is not our bloody job to determine if a kid is ready to play seniors.

He has hardly been knocking the door down, and we all know KPPs take a long time to come of age. Why on earth you would throw him to the wolves (something we have gotten much better at not doing!) with our season on the line and with other more mature viable options available, is mind boggling. 

Smacks of arrogance and stubbornness. Already our back line is so inexperienced. So you drop Vince and bring in a first gamer. I mean wtf?

You can’t blame a first gamer for costing us a game, but gees it was hard to watch. I felt for him and I’m sorry that we ruined what should have been a magical day for him, by playing him too soon without any backup. Pathetic decision making from the coaches. 

Mark my words, Jaded.   Mfc WILL play in September, in 2018 AFL premiership season finals .

27 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

From the  horses mouth, the same happened to Brayshaw, early in the year.  He said that Jones organised a meeting with Goodwin.  In that meeting Goodwin told Gus what he had to do to get selected.  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-29/i-wasnt-the-best-teammate-brayshaw  No sooner does Goodwin tell him what he needs to do, he puts his head down, changes his behaviours and in no time is back in the team.

At the time I was rather gobsmacked that Goodwin had not given Gus feedback but I didn't dwell on it. 

Now, your post makes me wonder if others (Garlett, Hunt (pre injury), Stretch, Frost) are being given the feedback they need to improve.  Its a real worry if what you describe is more widespread.

Not sure about this. Have heard from the inside demon podcast that goody will get around to every player and tell them what they need to do. 

11 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

But where were our leaders to give the kid a reassuring pat on the back, reinforce to just go for the next contest, reinforce stick to the basics, reinforce what he does well.  I certainly didn't see anyone go to him.  No wonder the kid was broken. 

His teammates and our leaders let him down today.  Someone should have picked him up physically and euphemistically!   Lets hope the scars aren't too deep.

When Vince started with us in 2014 the kid was maybe 14 yo? he has come a long way since. However it is a big jump to play in a key position in defence coming from VFL footy. The shonky left foot kick was off the side of the boot a grubber and there was no pressure on him. l was gobsmacked. I must have missed something as he was nowhere near anyone at the time. He had nowhere to hide. Once you cross the white line you have to be able to take the criticism.

.

3 minutes ago, Deefiant said:

Not sure about this. Have heard from the inside demon podcast that goody will get around to every player and tell them what they need to do. 

He didn't get to Brayshaw for the first three rounds and only gave him feedback when Jones initiated a meeting - perhaps you didn't read the the article I posted.

Petty looks like a nice young kid but gee that was embarrassing today. Completely lost. Beaten in virtually every contest, outpositioned and no idea where to go. But he had little support. Thrown to the wolves. OMD not much better. 

SIMON GOODWIN YOUR FUGAZI IS NOT WORKING. CAN YOU PLEASE UNFUGAZI AND LISTEN TO WHAT THE SUPPORTERS ARE SAYING!  PLEASE!.......

3 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

When Vince started with us in 2014 the kid was maybe 14 yo? he has come a long way since. However it is a big jump to play in a key position in defence coming from VFL footy. The shonky left foot kick was off the side of the boot a grubber and there was no pressure on him. l was gobsmacked. I must have missed something as he was nowhere near anyone at the time. He had nowhere to hide. Once you cross the white line you have to be able to take the criticism.

Not sure what Vince has to do with my post.

Nonetheless your points are all correct.  My point was it is a leader's job to encourage and support youngsters especially in their early days.

2 hours ago, martin said:

Hard to imagine that anything could top the selection of Maynard in round one and Tim Smith last week ,but the choice of Harrison Petty is simply staggering.

The boy has shown some promise at Casey but not outstanding. Added to that he is a skinny, underdeveloped 18 year old. I actually feel sorry for him and hope he develops into a fine player.

Both Frost and Keilty have been impassablee videnced again yesterday against the Bombers. Why these two have been ovelooked is perplexing particularly in the case of Frost. Yes, neither are champions, but a long way ahead of Petty atm. Frost adds a dynamic of pace sadly lacking.

Many reasons we lost close encounters against the Cats, Power and Saints but when it's so tight one player can make the difference. I do not look forward to any Thursday selection night.

Keilty's form in the VFL prior to the last few weeks has been ordinary, and Frost was moved forward to make room for those two.

I loved Keilty's game against Essendon but that's for next week and beyond. Similarly Frost has been in good VFL form the last two weeks after a poor patch. 

Petty dropped a few marks early that would've drastically changed the impact of the game, then spent most of the game running around after faster, smaller opponents. He had a few clean handballs and wasn't completely terrible with the ball but the lack of time up a level found him out, that happens.

The idea of picking him was to give us a tall to work off at CHB but with no up the ground pressure he couldn't use his aerial ability.

In this kind of mad scramble free running game Frost would've been better but you don't prepare for the rest of the side to play poorly. 

Tim Smith was the right selection last week. Leaving him out this week was the mistake.

Maynard wasn't the worst decision in round 1. Tyson was omitted and rightfully so. Brayshaw was sent back to the VFL to cut the lazy bad habits from his game and while he found form when he came back in those bad habits raised their heads today big time. The lazy one step kicking resulted in some very easy turnovers. 

1 selection only ever does so much. The question I'd ask is why are so many of our more talented players out of form, instead of focusing on the 20th picked.

1 hour ago, Demon17 said:

My impeccable sources tell my Tyson has had no conversations or feedback from the FD as to a) why dropped,  and b) why re-selected.

Either way, something smells and this approach could apply to others also.

I was dismayed to see him lining up on the wing today. Have they learnt nothing!

What a load of rubbish, I have heard tht garbage before about coaches, Barassi too hard on them, Northey does not get on with a lot of the players, Balme won"t talk to the reserve listed players and that he hated stynes,  Daniher wanted schwartz out of the side, Roos didn't care about the players or the club, It is all just garbage and the gullible believe anything that is fed to them. Name your impeccable source. 

2 hours ago, martin said:

Hard to imagine that anything could top the selection of Maynard in round one and Tim Smith last week ,but the choice of Harrison Petty is simply staggering.

The boy has shown some promise at Casey but not outstanding. Added to that he is a skinny, underdeveloped 18 year old. I actually feel sorry for him and hope he develops into a fine player.

Both Frost and Keilty have been impassablee videnced again yesterday against the Bombers. Why these two have been ovelooked is perplexing particularly in the case of Frost. Yes, neither are champions, but a long way ahead of Petty atm. Frost adds a dynamic of pace sadly lacking.

Many reasons we lost close encounters against the Cats, Power and Saints but when it's so tight one player can make the difference. I do not look forward to any Thursday selection night.

Its mind numbing....................frost must have stepped on toes.

How hannan got picked again ill never understand. 

Trac called out for attention and we saw little.

We were exposed for pace last week.

Goody did sweet all.

44 minutes ago, btdemon said:

Petty will be good. Clearly picked long before he was ready. Hopefully this game won't totally destroy his confidence. We went in top-heavy and slow. Shocking selections. If TMac was doubtful, which it seems he was, then he shouldn't have played either. Pedo would have been better. Spargo should also have played. Fritsch was great but probably played to be the small forward. It seems that that FD thought that that could blood Petty because we were going to win the game easy. Yeeeeesh! Have we learnt nothing? New also wasn't up to his normal standard. I would have preferred to see Bernie and Stretch out there.

Tyson still has value but not on the wing.

 

Playing Petty on the back of his excellent form is no different to playing Weideman for a few games in 2016 & 2017.   The key is they give it their all on-field, and then they go back to work on certain things instructed to grow their games.

Readying for their next opportunity.

 

I wonder IF Petty will get a backup game, or go straight back to Casey?

He had a poor game, but clearly the FD believed that his development and form across the season was good enough for a senior debut.  It's clear they also believe he could fill the role vacated by an injured Jake Lever better than the other players on our list.

You can't predict these things.  I saw plenty of times today where the players, including our leaders, got over to him to have a word, give him a pat on the back and do what they could to help him in every situation.  You can't ask more than that.  

The selection backfired, but most here believed (go and look at the changes thread for this game and you'll see most almost pleading for his inclusion) he was ready to go.

31 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Keilty's form in the VFL prior to the last few weeks has been ordinary, and Frost was moved forward to make room for those two.

I loved Keilty's game against Essendon but that's for next week and beyond. Similarly Frost has been in good VFL form the last two weeks after a poor patch. 

Petty dropped a few marks early that would've drastically changed the impact of the game, then spent most of the game running around after faster, smaller opponents. He had a few clean handballs and wasn't completely terrible with the ball but the lack of time up a level found him out, that happens.

The idea of picking him was to give us a tall to work off at CHB but with no up the ground pressure he couldn't use his aerial ability.

In this kind of mad scramble free running game Frost would've been better but you don't prepare for the rest of the side to play poorly. 

Tim Smith was the right selection last week. Leaving him out this week was the mistake.

Maynard wasn't the worst decision in round 1. Tyson was omitted and rightfully so. Brayshaw was sent back to the VFL to cut the lazy bad habits from his game and while he found form when he came back in those bad habits raised their heads today big time. The lazy one step kicking resulted in some very easy turnovers. 

1 selection only ever does so much. The question I'd ask is why are so many of our more talented players out of form, instead of focusing on the 20th picked.

great post DeeSpencer.

We should blame Goodwin because it's down to him in the end, but selecting Chaplin as defensive coach is a disgrace he is the worst coach in the comp coaching the worst backline in the comp.

GO PUT YOUR YELLOW AND BLACK SCARF BACK ON YOU HACK CHAPLIN

Hindsight Bias on steroids. 

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

He had a poor game, but clearly the FD believed that his development and form across the season was good enough for a senior debut.  It's clear they also believe he could fill the role vacated by an injured Jake Lever better than the other players on our list.

You can't predict these things.  I saw plenty of times today where the players, including our leaders, got over to him to have a word, give him a pat on the back and do what they could to help him in every situation.  You can't ask more than that.  

The selection backfired, but most here believed (go and look at the changes thread for this game and you'll see most almost pleading for his inclusion) he was ready to go.

A young key position player, its a tough gig in your first game, in your first season at a club. Usually this first game would be played as a 3rd tall back.  But we're not in that great a shape, to do this with Petty today.

Unfortunately the whole team played seemingly, a catch-up type footy,   chasing tail.   With the Saints holding some sort of MoJo over us today.

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Sorry but we are supporters. It is not our bloody job to determine if a kid is ready to play seniors.

Fair point.

So how do you know if a coach can coach when there are so many hours within the club that you never see ?

This thread is pretty unsavoury and there is nothing in the OP that couldn't have been included in the 'Post match discussion' or the 'Changes v Fremantle' thread.  

First game key position player played poorly... he had many friends in that department.

 

2 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Absolutely true.

It may be absolutely true that you were told something. This doesn't make what you were told absolutely true. However, I haven't been told anything by anyone and still know full well what you've been told is utter nonsense. 

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

He didn't get to Brayshaw for the first three rounds and only gave him feedback when Jones initiated a meeting - perhaps you didn't read the the article I posted.

You can do better than this LH. The frank meeting wasn't a footballing matter - it was an attitude issue. Gus was being a sook. Goodwin may have considered it best for Brayshaw's development to let him figure this out on his own.