6 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I know what you were doing I just fail to see why you would choose Carey of all players to compare him to. 

Hipwood, Curnow, McKay and Himmelberg are his draft class. They all have more strings to their bows and much better athletic capabilities.

ah, you clearly don't understand what i was saying.

People here are expecting a 22Yr old Key Forward with 25 games under his Belt,  to hold our forwardline together...  Unrealistic.

So I tried to draw a comparison to roughly show where Carey was, at approximately that same age.  

Not even a 23Yr old Wayne Carey would be able to hold our forwardline together at the moment...  such is our dysfunction throughout our team.
 

Carey, the most prominent CHF,  who you could realistically expect to hold a forwardline together...  And he was at a strong club with recent successes,  and some mature heads around him, both on and off-field.

 

So Weideman in not a mistake in drafting...  he is what we needed.   But we also needed others from that draft as well. 

Grundy would have been an awesome get,  if we were able to find a way, to another pick, somewhere  after Weides'.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Coz he knows the season is already cooked and playing for early Draft Picks??

Only reason I can possibly find!!

Dsperately trying to stay in touch with the pack above us in season 2019.

Since the Saints loss this weekend, and the  injury to Jetta...  I think our seasons strategy, has just changed. in the past 48 hours.

 

I think the penny has dropped...  that we cannot do anything Now, Re the ladder position and the 2019 Finals.

So I think we are now looking at the mid season draft,  and the Trade period & National Drafts... to aid our future,  and to heal some List wounds.

 

And IF so,  I agree with them.

We need more young talent on our List,,,  and we need a quick turn around,  bringing in a pacey winger or two,  Via Trade or Free Agency.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Disagree with some of that, half forward and half back are often the quickest part of the ground. If you're defending well the ground shrinks up in to lots of stoppages and little space on the wing.

Selwood is playing wing for the Cats. Isaac Smith is spending a lot of time at half forward to get in to more space for the Hawks.

For the quarter and a bit that we defended reasonably well Jones and Lewis weren't caught out for pace all that often. As soon as the forwards and mids dropped off they were torched, but so were our slow half backs. 

The thing I do agree with you on is don't play him if he can't play HB. I don't think he can, not alongside Josh Wagner and without a lot of pace with the other defenders. I think we can have 1 slower wing and still be a decent side: Jones or Lewis. And one slower half back: Lewis or Josh Wagner. If that player moves to the right spaces and gets a lot of uncontested ball then they are useful without speed.

And even then just as much of the mistake was playing Lewis without a warm up in the VFL. There was no chance for him to get some touch and prove he can bend down and get the ball, chase opponents and go in to tackle.

Half forward yes but you still need speed out wide on the G to break a game open and/or defend against a fast break from a shallow entry into our forward 50.  And if a sluggish wingman's opponent gets out the back on a fast break our defenders are toast .

And with sluggish wingman you can't afford to push too high on a hard forward press.  That almost kills the raison d'etre for the entire "lock the ball in our 50" strategy as the Opp will place a few quick smaller defenders to run off into space and hook up with anyone faster than our wingman out wide over the top!  And as you say, their wingman don't have to be that quick...just quicker than ours...which isn't hard against Jones and Lewis.  And thats exactly what the Saints did.  Too easily picked off on either side on the fast break for multiple joe the gooses into forward 50 and a few joe the gooses beyond that,  running into an open goal.

In the case of Jones and Lewis they are unable to cover that option meaning the Opp can switch to either fat side and potentially gain an advantage with a slightly speedier match up if they move the ball reasonably quickly and accurately, which the Saints did very nicely for much of the game.

Yes you might be able to cover one sluggish wingman IF you have HBs that are able to cover enough ground quickly enough  to close down space on their opponent and play them closely enough when the switch is on.  But even then you are still going to have a spare if they get away from a Jones or Lewis at any stage, creating an overlap player that's coming towards or inside 50 under little or no pressure.  Easily able to hit up forward targets on a lead etc or even run into an open goal from or around the arc. 

Defenders have no chance covering this effectively much of the time as the Opp can pick either side of the ground at will and bring it in under little pressure with solid accuracy.

You simply can't play sluggish players or even one on the wings at the G for long periods of a match against quality opposition and not expect to be severely punished in today's super professional game.  Any coach who believes this is an option is going to be torn a new one by any half decent opposition.  A great team will absolutely pulverize it and make it look like a training drill.

Also you say as soon the HBs & HFs dropped off Lewis & Jones were toast. Chicken and Egg DS.  We gave them a massive incentive to make multiple switches and do just that as they knew their wingman would eventually get the better of both our old boys out wide.  If they can't see or don't believe that opening is in front of them they are less likely to try it as often leaving our HBs & HFs a tad less exhausted and probably able to punish more effectively going the other way or be more accurate at goal when having a shot.  All the little wins (or losses) on the day add up!

Edited April 22, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

3 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Can we slap a moonboot on him and call it season ending? Give us another pick in the mid season draft. 2 picks then, grab the best potential wingmen possible and chuck em in. What could it hurt?

I agree, he needs to sit in the coaches box, or even on the bench to get in the ears as players come off. Casey playing assistant coach next year, but he'll probably want to run back to the Hawks.

Put that Moonboot on Jetta...  'FiTB'.

And do just that.  MidSeason draft and National drafts.

 

Send Josh Mahoney & May overseas, for May to get really fit in Nevada...  and do the same with AVB, to seek out best medical practice for his Heel.

Josh Mahoney to seek our best international Sports Injury and Conditioning people available.

And while at it,  he could take Kelly O'Donnell with him,  to look at the best USA sports people available... & Irish Gaelic players that they can find.

42 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Selwood is playing wing for the Cats. Isaac Smith is spending a lot of time at half forward to get in to more space for the Hawks.

For the quarter and a bit that we defended reasonably well Jones and Lewis weren't caught out for pace all that often. As soon as the forwards and mids dropped off they were torched, but so were our slow half backs. 

I think that was the plan,  'DS'.

2 hours ago, DV8 said:

ah, you clearly don't understand what i was saying.

People here are expecting a 22Yr old Key Forward with 25 games under his Belt,  to hold our forwardline together...  Unrealistic.

So I tried to draw a comparison to roughly show where Carey was, at approximately that same age.  

Not even a 23Yr old Wayne Carey would be able to hold our forwardline together at the moment...  such is our dysfunction throughout our team.
 

Carey, the most prominent CHF,  who you could realistically expect to hold a forwardline together...  And he was at a strong club with recent successes,  and some mature heads around him, both on and off-field.

 

So Weideman in not a mistake in drafting...  he is what we needed.   But we also needed others from that draft as well. 

Grundy would have been an awesome get,  if we were able to find a way, to another pick, somewhere  after Weides'.

No one is expecting this, with all young players you look for glimpses. For example, McKay running down the wing and kicking a great point or taking multiple contested marks.

Then Weideman, who is purely a marking player gets the ball on a plater with a free run and jump and can't out mark Billings. If you are not multidimensional (Weideman is no threat to a ground ball and is slow), you need to be amazing at your strength. Weideman double grabs nearly all of his marks. 

Lewis is running in concrete boots and needs to announce his retirement after the Hawthorn game next weekend. It’s sad and embarrassing to watch sides with dashing half back flankers cut us up while Jordan moves around our back half like he’s on tranquilizers. It’s done mate. Over. You’re cooked. Time to bow out with dignity and a guard of honour from players of both clubs at the MCG, honouring the 4-flag star of the comp you’ve been. Digging your heels in and denying the development of a youngster is the selfish option at this point. Dislike Kane Cornes all you like, he’s correct about this one.

With the season shot Jonesy has to seriously consider his future now, too. An announcement of his retirement at season’s end would give all Demon fans the chance to celebrate  his remaining games and send this champion bloke and player off in style. 

Father Time has come knocking. Leadership and selflessness is also knowing when to hang ‘em up for the good of the team. 

Edited April 26, 20195 yr by Matsuo Basho

I thought Lewis was pretty good on the weekend.  Played on Caddy for most of it and kept him pretty quiet.  He still has a role to play this year.

No doubt he will probably retire at season's end, but it won't happen this weekend.  

Happy for him to move in to an assistant coaches role for 2020 and beyond.

Sorry didn’t see those threads. I just think the playing futures of both players comes into even sharper focus now. 

Particularly a great opportunity next weekend for Lewis to bow out with style and dignity. Has to happen.

1 hour ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Sorry didn’t see those threads. I just think the playing futures of both players comes into even sharper focus now. 

Particularly a great opportunity next weekend for Lewis to bow out with style and dignity. Has to happen.

Thanks  'clarko'.

Mistake for Lewis to go on this year

Lewis will surely retire at season end, possibly Jones too.

But ATM their experience and leadership is unfortunately the best we have.

I thought Lewis wasn't too bad vs Richmond, fumbly and falling over too easily, of course. As Wise mentioned, he kept Caddy quiet

Jones won the game for us vs Swans and I think he should play out of the forward line for the rest of the year. Team injuries may not permit this though.

However, demanding retirement after the next round is plain stupid.

Lewis and Jones are now liabilities. But we can carry them to seasons end, we arent exactly playing for sheep stations this year.

51 minutes ago, ThreeOneSix said:

Lewis and Jones are now liabilities. But we can carry them to seasons end, we arent exactly playing for sheep stations this year.

Why carry them Lewis especially - and make no mistake that’s exactly what we’re doing - if the season is shot and we can blood youngsters and experiment with different strategies off half back? Use the game time productively ffs.

Edited April 26, 20195 yr by Matsuo Basho

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

 

I thought Lewis wasn't too bad vs Richmond, fumbly and falling over too easily, of course. As Wise mentioned, he kept Caddy quiet

 

I'm not one for bagging players but Lewis was terrible against the tigers.

Leaving aside his fumbles, lack of pace and inability to pick the ball of the ground he is supposed to offer leadership. He offered zero leadership in this game.

I stamped his card late in the last quarter when he took a half step at a contest and didn't put his body on the line. Game was over but you can tell a lot about where a player is at attitude wise by the way they play late in games where their team is going to lose.

The thing i most admired about Robbie Flower was not his abundant skill but his ticker and approach to the game. It didn't matter if we were winning, it was close or we were getting pumped he never dropped his head and always played to the final siren. Respect. I lost some respect for Lewis on Wednesday night. 

Edited April 26, 20195 yr by binman

Lewis won’t have time to ponder a Demons loss far to busy building a media career and pontificating on other teams. Kane Cornes on the money.

23 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm not one for bagging players but Lewis was terrible against the tigers.

Leaving aside his fumbles, lack of pace and inability to pick the ball of the ground he is supposed to offer leadership. He offered zero leadership in this game.

I stamped his card late in the last quarter when he took a half step at a contest and didn't put his body on the line. Game was over but you can tell a lot about where a player is at attitude wise by the way they play late in games where their team is going to lose.

The thing i most admired about Robbie Flower was not his abundant skill but his ticker and approach to the game. It didn't matter if we were winning, it was close or we were getting pumped he never dropped his head and always played to the final siren. Respect. I lost some respect for Lewis on Wednesday night. 

Fair enough. But note his opponent, Caddy, was kept quiet.

But I agree he would be better served at Casey once Lever, May and Nev return

Should he retire now does that open up another spot in the mini-draft?

2 hours ago, TRIGON said:

Should he retire now does that open up another spot in the mini-draft?

That really depends on other factors. If it were just Jordy then no, however if a Hawk or Tiger for example were to do the exact same thing, then I'm sure any rules would become flexible.

Great win by the club today, but felt Lewis was really poor again.

8 kicks, 5 handballs. 5 turn overs and a disposal efficiency of 54%

1 tackle, 7 pressure acts.

2 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Great win by the club today, but felt Lewis was really poor again.

8 kicks, 5 handballs. 5 turn overs and a disposal efficiency of 54%

1 tackle, 7 pressure acts.

Doesn’t make for good reading. 

Do you actually know how many games we have won without Lewis since he’s been at the club ?? 

 

1 ( One ) Sydney - Get off his back !

 

His decision making is so slow now, he waits for the easy option to be covered. Wasn’t helped by Oscar on that crucial late turnover but he was so slow and predictable to dispose. The high risk look away kick outs aren’t worth the risk.

The majority of the backline have played a lot together, I just cant buy that his leadership adds huge value. 

When Viney comes back I would’ve thought Jones, Gus or Fritsch should move to half back and do the same role.

7 minutes ago, Micksdemons said:

Do you actually know how many games we have won without Lewis since he’s been at the club ?? 

 

1 ( One ) Sydney - Get off his back !

 

I can’t see how you can relate those losses to his absence. His form has been horrible ever since last years preliminary.

30 minutes ago, Micksdemons said:

Do you actually know how many games we have won without Lewis since he’s been at the club ?? 

 

1 ( One ) Sydney - Get off his back !

 

Well according to his presser, Simon Goodwin agrees with me, although acknowledges his importance in structures and communication.

If Lever can play that general role, then I can’t see a need for Lewis.