Play Vince forward if they don’t drop him, those two just can’t play in the same backline, combined with Oscar the galloping giraffe we are too slow down there

20 minutes ago, Dee93 said:

I agree with the growing sentiment that the Lewis/Vince combination is coming to an end. I think there’s definitely only space for one ...

Would love to hear thoughts on whether others would like to see this and whether they reckon Goodwin would ever consider it.

 

 

in effect, (what i think you're saying) Jones is > Vince and for team balance (Youth/Speed vs Experience/Hardness) go with Jones. I agree, Vince had lost some of his decision making ability, ( i think due to his struggle to keep up with speed of game). Has been a good servant and should not be denigrated by supporters, just given a large appreciation of thanks. I reckon Goodwin can tell his mate to let it go in answer to your question.

I also think moving Jones definitively has an advantage, in that he is no longer 1st choice inside mid, and i think he has been looking a little lost about his role, we have so many beasts at the fall of the ball, we need to clear the space out and trust our young beasts to do their job. It looks too crowded for mine and moving Jones could be a win all round, and not devaluing him or disrespecting him, just a good natural progression as you have expressed.

Edited June 26, 20186 yr by DaisyDeeciple
minor typo

On 6/23/2018 at 7:58 PM, jumbo returns said:

Jonesy

Lewis

Bernie

Are they holding up the development of a youngster?

I have some Hawthorn mates who were so excited to see Lewis go

Vince will retire, Lewis will hang around for a year. If we don't play finals this year, Jones should be put up for trade like I've said every year for the past 4 years. 

18 minutes ago, Dee93 said:

I agree with the growing sentiment that the Lewis/Vince combination is coming to an end. I think there’s definitely only space for one of them moving forward.

Lewis in my view has better skills, and potentially organises those around him a little better (experience). On the other hand, I think he’s becoming softer by the week (probably get shouted down for it, but I don’t reckon he puts his body on the line as much as he should anymore, and certainly not like he used to), while Vince’s physicality with a big bump here and there can lift the team. That said if I had to pick, it’d be Lewis, just.

As for who would occupy Vince’s spot, I’m not sure if it’s been suggested elsewhere but to me Nathan Jones appears to be a great candidate. Why?

- he still has his speed, and would have the ability to break the lines and actually provide some true dash/rebound off half back, something sorely lacking with both Lewis/Vince in the side and Hunt injured/at Casey

- kicking skills are decent, probably not as capable as Vince as pulling off creative kicks that would open up the ground, but less susceptible to the goal conceding howler which seems to be a 1 per game occurrence with Vince this year 

- our midfield is stocked now with seriously good contested ball players - players have gone past him in the same role. If we’ve got Oliver, Viney and now Brayshaw dominating the contested ball inside, surely we can take resources from that part of the ground. Only gotta look at the Port game to realise that alone isn’t gonna win the game. I don’t see taking Jones out of there as upsetting the balance, whilst on the other hand really injecting some life off half back which has been recognised as an area of weakness even outside the club too

- he’s now 30 (31 start of next year). He’s still going fairly strong but he’s not gonna be around forever. I see it as the perfect way to transition him into the twilight of his career and extend it a little longer than otherwise, if continuing to be played as a battering ram. He’s been remarkably durable over the journey but last year we saw him miss a large chunk, could become a more frequent occurrence 

I see him playing a Jared McVeigh type role, slightly different in that he’s a little less polished, but harder at it. And a little like Boyd (Matthew) with the dogs, long career in the middle, goes back to be a cool head in the backline while the new young bulls dominate the midfield. 

Granted there’d be a query on how well he could defend one on one, but I don’t see why he couldn’t learn, especially given how competitive he is.. And given the way defences work these days, probably wouldn’t find himself one on one very often anyway.

Would love to hear thoughts on whether others would like to see this and whether they reckon Goodwin would ever consider it.

 

 

Some really good common sense in these ideas that make logical sense, almost across the board. What you are suggesting already looks like increases in drivers towards faster, productive and efficient play and it could be more widespread, thus reducing our slumps and recovery issues. Nice work!

33 minutes ago, Dee93 said:

I agree with the growing sentiment that the Lewis/Vince combination is coming to an end. I think there’s definitely only space for one of them moving forward.

Lewis in my view has better skills, and potentially organises those around him a little better (experience). On the other hand, I think he’s becoming softer by the week (probably get shouted down for it, but I don’t reckon he puts his body on the line as much as he should anymore, and certainly not like he used to), while Vince’s physicality with a big bump here and there can lift the team. That said if I had to pick, it’d be Lewis, just.

As for who would occupy Vince’s spot, I’m not sure if it’s been suggested elsewhere but to me Nathan Jones appears to be a great candidate. Why?

- he still has his speed, and would have the ability to break the lines and actually provide some true dash/rebound off half back, something sorely lacking with both Lewis/Vince in the side and Hunt injured/at Casey

- kicking skills are decent, probably not as capable as Vince as pulling off creative kicks that would open up the ground, but less susceptible to the goal conceding howler which seems to be a 1 per game occurrence with Vince this year 

- our midfield is stocked now with seriously good contested ball players - players have gone past him in the same role. If we’ve got Oliver, Viney and now Brayshaw dominating the contested ball inside, surely we can take resources from that part of the ground. Only gotta look at the Port game to realise that alone isn’t gonna win the game. I don’t see taking Jones out of there as upsetting the balance, whilst on the other hand really injecting some life off half back which has been recognised as an area of weakness even outside the club too

- he’s now 30 (31 start of next year). He’s still going fairly strong but he’s not gonna be around forever. I see it as the perfect way to transition him into the twilight of his career and extend it a little longer than otherwise, if continuing to be played as a battering ram. He’s been remarkably durable over the journey but last year we saw him miss a large chunk, could become a more frequent occurrence 

I see him playing a Jared McVeigh type role, slightly different in that he’s a little less polished, but harder at it. And a little like Boyd (Matthew) with the dogs, long career in the middle, goes back to be a cool head in the backline while the new young bulls dominate the midfield. 

Granted there’d be a query on how well he could defend one on one, but I don’t see why he couldn’t learn, especially given how competitive he is.. And given the way defences work these days, probably wouldn’t find himself one on one very often anyway.

Would love to hear thoughts on whether others would like to see this and whether they reckon Goodwin would ever consider it.

 

 

Wow, that's a seriously good post !!! 

 

Bernie will be gone at the end of this year. He was bracing himself to play footy at Casey this year which does show where he saw his footy at.

I personally would like to see him play at least 4 more games so he can get his name on the locker.

Jordie should play out his contract. He knows what it takes to get to the top and is a good general in the backline.

While it is tempting to kick out older blokes and replace them with kids, I would just like to remind people of 2010-11.

58 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

While it is tempting to kick out older blokes and replace them with kids, I would just like to remind people of 2010-11.

The difference is you replace them with not quite as old guys who are better players now.

That's why we look at Gaff, Murphy and co...

You don't replace them with kids.

Edited June 26, 20186 yr by rjay

12 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Bernie will be gone at the end of this year. He was bracing himself to play footy at Casey this year which does show where he saw his footy at.

I personally would like to see him play at least 4 more games so he can get his name on the locker.

Jordie should play out his contract. He knows what it takes to get to the top and is a good general in the backline.

While it is tempting to kick out older blokes and replace them with kids, I would just like to remind people of 2010-11.

I'd like to see Jetta and Hibberd play the orchestral conductor role in the backline instead of Jordan Lewis. Hell, those guys are inspirational most games and know what and how it is done.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-06-27/salem-praises-lewis-and-vince

6 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd like to see Jetta and Hibberd play the orchestral conductor role in the backline instead of Jordan Lewis. Hell, those guys are inspirational most games and know what and how it is done.

Do orchestras with >1 conductors exist?

47 minutes ago, timbo said:

Do orchestras with >1 conductors exist?

They do in my football team - one to speak to the hard of hearing and the other to posit good habits under the threat of eternal wickedness . Ask a silly question, get a stupid and meaningless answer.

The Tigers will name their team tonight. Try and find a Tigers forward Jordan Lewis can keep up with. 

He is a  4 time premiership player and a great of the Hawthorn Football Club but Lewis is too slow to play at AFL level in 2018. One of the footy shows showed footage of Lewis getting caught out as our deepest defender and having no chance of keeping pace with his opponent  charging into their forward 50 as Port rebounded. His footy smarts are now best used as a development coach. 

Old Father Time catches up with all players. I can understand why he wants to keep playing, lets not forget that he rejected a 2 yr deal to move and we caved and added a year. I don't blame him for that but my expectation of Simon Goodwin is that he will pick the best 22 each week irrespective of reputation. If he keeps picking Lewis then he is not doing that. 

 

22 hours ago, SFebey said:

Play Vince forward if they don’t drop him, those two just can’t play in the same backline, combined with Oscar the galloping giraffe we are too slow down there

I'm inclined to agree with this. We lacked genuine forwards v Port. If Vince gets it a bit he will kick some goals. So , incidentally, will Garlett who offers much more pace

4 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

They do in my football team - one to speak to the hard of hearing and the other to posit good habits under the threat of eternal wickedness . Ask a silly question, get a stupid and meaningless answer.

Don't be so Hard on yourself it wasn't stupid or meaningless

On 6/26/2018 at 8:37 PM, Deemania since 56 said:

Some really good common sense in these ideas that make logical sense, almost across the board. What you are suggesting already looks like increases in drivers towards faster, productive and efficient play and it could be more widespread, thus reducing our slumps and recovery issues. Nice work!

Yep agree, it’s nice to see a post with some serious thought put into it too!

1 hour ago, DeezNuts said:

Yep agree, it’s nice to see a post with some serious thought put into it too!

Dee93 is a legend !!

19 hours ago, demoniac said:

The Tigers will name their team tonight. Try and find a Tigers forward Jordan Lewis can keep up with. 

He is a  4 time premiership player and a great of the Hawthorn Football Club but Lewis is too slow to play at AFL level in 2018. One of the footy shows showed footage of Lewis getting caught out as our deepest defender and having no chance of keeping pace with his opponent  charging into their forward 50 as Port rebounded. His footy smarts are now best used as a development coach. 

Old Father Time catches up with all players. I can understand why he wants to keep playing, lets not forget that he rejected a 2 yr deal to move and we caved and added a year. I don't blame him for that but my expectation of Simon Goodwin is that he will pick the best 22 each week irrespective of reputation. If he keeps picking Lewis then he is not doing that. 

 

The following challenge remains open!

"The Tigers will name their team tonight. Try and find a Tigers forward Jordan Lewis can keep up with." 

 

7 minutes ago, demoniac said:

The following challenge remains open!

"The Tigers will name their team tonight. Try and find a Tigers forward Jordan Lewis can keep up with." 

 

Butler and Caddy.

You don't always need 'pace' to keep up with an opponent.  Footy smarts and positioning, which he has in spades, play a role as well.

5 minutes ago, demoniac said:

The following challenge remains open!

"The Tigers will name their team tonight. Try and find a Tigers forward Jordan Lewis can keep up with." 

 

37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Butler and Caddy.

You don't always need 'pace' to keep up with an opponent.  Footy smarts and positioning, which he has in spades, play a role as well.

I don't deny that Lewis has footy smarts but in 2018 AFL footy demands a minimum level of athleticism.  Lewis does not reach that level. I can't see him matching up with either Butler or Caddy. Butler in particular would be way to nimble for Lewis. If he played on Caddy he'd have to be an accountable man on man defender rather than an inside mid transplanted to  quarterback of the half back in twilight  of career. 

Edited June 28, 20186 yr by demoniac

Enjoyed his farewell goal when he finally found himself in a decent position.

Otherwise it was 120 minutes of turnovers, being pushed around, refusing to bend down to gather the ball, trailing his opponent to contests and doing little if anything at all to set up the backline.

Goodwin needs to realise we can’t win a flag with an old, slow backline. Particularly with Oscar as our key defender and no Lever. 

Lewis and Vince will go when someone from Casey forces them out.

So far there really haven't been any standout players in that regard. Hunt injured and the perennial Wagner doesn't instil much confidence that a change will come soon.

Playing Petty on the back of a few reasonable games smacked of desperation

Cooked.

4 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Cooked.

Stick a fork in him