5 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Still miss #4

 

But, DeeSpencer, stop the personal stuff - critique the play

The hair is relevant. He spent all last year making sure it wasn't pulled out of place. Seems to have a stronger more reliable rug this year, I was hoping it would help his form. Look good, play good. He's not just a regular player, he's a player who does more media for the club than any other, a responsibility and a privilege. It also makes him harder to drop. AFL 360 probably don't want to hear from a Casey player every Tuesday night.

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Once it was decided to play Tom Mc forward Lewis' job during the preseason was to tutor Lever.  Early this year Lewis said "One of the gaps was a little bit of leadership down back...That's not to say that I'll play there next year but certainly throughout the pre-season, I think I'll train the majority of the time in the backline."

 Once the season started, Lever was marshalling the backs under Lewis' wise eye - watching but not interfering (and I'm guessing there was a bit of post game debriefing). 

 Now that Lever is out the marshalling role has reverted to Lewis and he did a fine job of it yesterday.  Very obvious at the ground not sure if so obvious on tv.

 Yes, Lewis' weaknesses will be exposed but every player has some and every opp coach will work to exploit them.  Lewis has more positives than negatives so for me he stays until Lever returns.

@DeeSpenceryou are a fine reporter of training sessions and they are much appreciated.  From what you've seen if Lewis is dropped who takes over the marshalling role? 

Really, I thought yesterday under pressure in the first quarter the backs were incredibly slow to set up with a number of stoppages in Collingwood's forward line. 

In fact I think they got one or two goals from forward stoppages when it wasn't right in the first 20 minutes.

The backs also failed at spreading quickly and encouraging the switch. 

Hibberd and Salem are the two players I'd have in charge. I'd use them to get Joel Smith and (if it were me) Petty lined up correctly. Probably room for one of Lewis or Vince still as we don't have a lot of obvious inclusions so no doubt that experience is valuable but a 30+ year old guy shouldn't be in charge of the show, there's enough others who have played plenty of footy. And surely Oscar and Jetta don't need to be told what to do, they've been playing back in this system for the longest? 

5 hours ago, layzie said:

Who are the replacements for Lewis and Vince though? Grape said it on the podcast a few weeks ago and he was right. We ideally would have other guys there but we don't have the guys who are ready to be those composed and steady BP/HBF types. Wanna throw Wagner into that role? Sure, its your funeral. 

I've actually liked his year (outside of the Carlton game stinker) but there's very little composed about Bernie Vince right now. He's just running around giving his best. So I wouldn't put him in the composure category.

Joel Smith played a fair game under immense pressure first up for the year and 3rd game overall. His spoils, smothers and tackles stood out. He'd made some blues with the good stuff but at 1/4 time he was probably the only defender who had broke even. Made some errors with his kicking but those are the kind of errors you cut out pretty easily with some more games and development. Harry Petty looks a natural, I'd love to see what he can do.

I think you can play those guys and they can fill roles as willing defenders and competitors. Composed ball use is vital. Jetta is great at it. Salem is the best user in the team and doesn't panic when faced with a contested ground ball. Oscar now has a steady kick. Hibberd when not trying to do too much is reliable. 

All of Harmes, Brayshaw and Fritsch could do the job and we could bring in another forward or mid if needed. Or Nath Jones. The high half back sweeper role is the easiest position in footy. The ball comes to you and you can use it in any direction. 

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I've actually liked his year (outside of the Carlton game stinker) but there's very little composed about Bernie Vince right now. He's just running around giving his best. So I wouldn't put him in the composure category.

Joel Smith played a fair game under immense pressure first up for the year and 3rd game overall. His spoils, smothers and tackles stood out. He'd made some blues with the good stuff but at 1/4 time he was probably the only defender who had broke even. Made some errors with his kicking but those are the kind of errors you cut out pretty easily with some more games and development. Harry Petty looks a natural, I'd love to see what he can do.

I think you can play those guys and they can fill roles as willing defenders and competitors. Composed ball use is vital. Jetta is great at it. Salem is the best user in the team and doesn't panic when faced with a contested ground ball. Oscar now has a steady kick. Hibberd when not trying to do too much is reliable. 

All of Harmes, Brayshaw and Fritsch could do the job and we could bring in another forward or mid if needed. Or Nath Jones. The high half back sweeper role is the easiest position in footy. The ball comes to you and you can use it in any direction. 

A fair and thought out answer there. I agree Bernie has his moments but surely he hits more passes than he misses? I think the clangers just stick out because when they happen they are completely woeful. I'll admit this supports your argument somewhat.

I do agree that the high half back role is one of the easier positions, hence why so many guys retire there. I do see where you're coming from but I still feel Jordan is a required player.

 

I really doubt the FD are going to replace Lewis or his role before the end of the season. I agree he looked off the pace yesterday and the style of game did not suit him one bit. His weaknesses were exposed by Collingwood but this was a result of our inability to slow them down. He wasn't given any time or space due to the lack of pressure applied by our midfield.

I listened to Lyon this morning say that Lewis has played well when Melbourne has been able to dictate the flow of the game. Same must be said for Vince. When we are in control they are key in controlling our ball movement across the backline/wing. When the opposition are going blitz attack like yesterday they are caught out of position with little leg speed to make up ground.

I guess my point is I think the FD are going to continue to take this risk. I think there are other teams that take the risk and rely on their best pressure backman (eg Jetta/Hibberd) to work hard around the contest and feed the ball to the best disposal players in Lewis/Vince/Salem.

The conversation will need to be had at seasons end who can step up into the Vince/Lewis roles. Right now there's no one with the combination of both the ball use/decision making and pace to put pressure on. Wagner is the only one close for mine. Would like to see Tyson and Hung clean up their disposal to become possible options down the line also.

2 hours ago, demoniac said:

If you are not a key defender, and probably even if you are, if you are playing in defence you need to be able to ... rebound. 

Lewis provides neither.

WTF ... Lewis had more rebounds than any other player on the field.

4 hours ago, TGR said:

Quote of the year.

Our biggest weakness is foot speed entering our D50 from a quick play.

 

The club either has the balls now to get games into Frost and Hunt, or go down in flames in finals with Lewis and Vince plodding.

bit hard considering hunt out for 6 weeks then a stint in the magoos

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The hair is relevant. He spent all last year making sure it wasn't pulled out of place. Seems to have a stronger more reliable rug this year, I was hoping it would help his form. Look good, play good. He's not just a regular player, he's a player who does more media for the club than any other, a responsibility and a privilege. It also makes him harder to drop. AFL 360 probably don't want to hear from a Casey player every Tuesday night.

You know where I'm coming from

Critique the play, the skills, etc etc, but leave the personal stuff out of it, please

Behaviours and actions

20 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Groupthink when 88% disagree?

 

15 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

No, he is part of a small group on here who love to criticise? But only in a pack, lacking an alpha male methinks

 

Ignore the troll, Stretch.

Saty loves to use the term 'group think'.  He must have used it 200 times on here.

It is his way of making himself feel better about knowing absolutely nothing about footy.   

Was a very embarrassng performance

5 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Ignore the troll, Stretch.

Saty loves to use the term 'group think'.  He must have used it 200 times on here.

It is his way of making himself feel better about knowing absolutely nothing about footy.   

I've used it 200 tomes because it occurs that often

Trolling is 'going the man' read what you wrote

In my opinion after both the Garlett and Lewis comments, it is you that has no idea

Garlett is struggling and was named in the best, hilarious

Edited June 12, 20187 yr by Satyriconhome

56 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I've used it 200 tomes because it occurs that often

Trolling is 'going the man' read what you wrote

In my opinion after both the Garlett and Lewis comments, it is you that has no idea

Garlett is struggling and was named in the best, hilarious

Keep toeing the company line.   

Edited June 12, 20187 yr by Petraccattack

On 6/11/2018 at 8:29 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

I'd be more concerned with Bernie Vince then Lewis.

Agreed I think poor Bv is a shadow of his previous form last year. 

Another awful performance from Plugga Lewis.

To all the people who said mean things about me in this thread, don't worry, I'm not angry. Will gladly accept any and all apologies. 

 

What a stupid thread this is.

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Another awful performance from Plugga Lewis.

To all the people who said mean things about me in this thread, don't worry, I'm not angry. Will gladly accept any and all apologies. 

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

He's ok with the ball, is a massive liability without it. Either he or Vince goes now and the other follows at the end of the year.

Lewis was good at Hawthorn as a midfielder. He just isn't a backman. Simple as that. At this point in his career he may not be good enough to break into our midfield, or willing enough to take the hits if he was. I would drop Lewis back to the VFL for a bit. See if he can help some of those lads who we need to be making the transition to AFL.

1 minute ago, Supermercado said:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

He's ok with the ball, is a massive liability without it. Either he or Vince goes now and the other follows at the end of the year.

I don't see them as a pairing. Vince does anywhere between 3 to 30 ridiculous things a game but otherwise he's just Bernie but a little slower with less penetration on the kicking. The guy will still go most of the time when it's his turn to go and he often takes a taller opponent given we aren't playing a designated 3rd tall (or even a designated 2nd to be more correct). With Lever and Hunt injured the replacement for Bernie is either Wagner - who doesn't inspire confidence or a first year kid in Petty. I understand why the coaches are reluctant to chuck a kid in, even if I think it's time.

Lewis is completely different to me. He's playing as the loosest defender - a prime position to get a lot of the ball and impact games. And yeah he's solid enough with the ball in the uncontested kicking game, and that's important, but I'd love to see Salem or Fritsch in that role, both guys with more kicking penetration and the speed to take it on. 

When it gets close in tight Lewis won't turn left. He can't even handball on his right hand, so he's always looking to go in one direction. Can't break a tackle so we throw it away before it comes to that. His kicks often end up wild up an unders. And the defending. The awful awful defending. If he's not in the perfect position he just can't offer anything. 

if you continually fall over and go to ground it generally means you're cooked !

If anyone thinks that Vince and Lewis are the reasons we are [censored] then the whole club is toast

10 minutes ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

If anyone thinks that Vince and Lewis are the reasons we are [censored] then the whole club is toast

I believe in smoke alarms

I thought Lewis was good in the first half, but went to water in pressure situations during the second half.

 

cue ‘give him a spray’ jokes...

Lewis is pretty safe with the ball. I'm under no illusions that he could out run a tortoise, but he is not the problem. His job is to lead and steer the troops off the ball which he is doing a good job of. Our defensive spread is pretty good, and Lewis has been huge helping that happen.

Last night wasn't his best game, but he wasn't near our bottom 6 or 8 last night.

 

 

Lewis ain't the problem, and he was way better than many others out there last night. 

DS won't admit it though as, after being wrong in these sort of threads before, he desperately wants to be right. 

9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't see them as a pairing. Vince does anywhere between 3 to 30 ridiculous things a game but otherwise he's just Bernie but a little slower with less penetration on the kicking. The guy will still go most of the time when it's his turn to go and he often takes a taller opponent given we aren't playing a designated 3rd tall (or even a designated 2nd to be more correct). With Lever and Hunt injured the replacement for Bernie is either Wagner - who doesn't inspire confidence or a first year kid in Petty. I understand why the coaches are reluctant to chuck a kid in, even if I think it's time.

Lewis is completely different to me. He's playing as the loosest defender - a prime position to get a lot of the ball and impact games. And yeah he's solid enough with the ball in the uncontested kicking game, and that's important, but I'd love to see Salem or Fritsch in that role, both guys with more kicking penetration and the speed to take it on. 

When it gets close in tight Lewis won't turn left. He can't even handball on his right hand, so he's always looking to go in one direction. Can't break a tackle so we throw it away before it comes to that. His kicks often end up wild up an unders. And the defending. The awful awful defending. If he's not in the perfect position he just can't offer anything. 

Agree.

 

At the end of the day, Lewis won’t have been the difference between us making finals and not.

 

Listen to Roos last night, and he can’t believe we leave speed in the seconds (Garlett and Hunt (pre-injury)).

 

Lewis wasn’t our worst.  “Give it to me Harmes” and “Body language Hogan” could take claim to that last night.

 

But the Lewis experiment has failed, delayed development, and slowed an already one-paced side.  All for ‘leadership’.  This recruitment personified the veil of negativity and lack of trust in our own leaders and their capacity to write their own history.

Opposition coaches now are instructing players to take Lewis and Vince on, and disregard their perceived pressure.  You can carry one; not two.