Rejuvenating the backline

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

Of our back 6 Lewis is or will soon be 32, Vince 33 and Jetta 28.

All performing well and deserving of their spot at present. Logic says one or more will be "slowing down" soon either this year or next.

This post is about what is coming through at VFL level.

Backlines at VFL level don't get much publicity and of course the modern game means that positions blur.

The two obvious candidates are Wagner and Hunt.

Wagner has been tried as we all know and equally he is often the first to be dropped.

Hunt has to rediscover his mojo and there is perhaps a question over whether his game style is consistent with the modern game plan.

Oskar Baker is a prime candidate and is coming along.

Wondering if posters think there are other players who should be trialled down back... (I would like to think that Billy Stretch might be a candidate but logic is against it.)

Alternatively, is it an eventuality for which we should be trading at years end.

[Lucifers Hero 39,870]

Petty.

Then Hibberd and Hunt to take smaller/medium players ala Lewis/Vince.

Jetta will be around for a few more years (I hope).

Edited May 14, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[Demonland 72,217]

I wonder where Joel Smith is on the pecking order.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,745]

I think about this type of thing also, however I think it is best to just continue to play the best options and see how things evolve.

You never know, we may draft a young guy who comes in and is a gun small defender or we move a player into defence and they do well.

The team is constantly evolving and I don't think you could look much further than a few weeks into the future.

[Deemania since 56 6,651]

12 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Of our back 6 Lewis is or will soon be 32, Vince 33 and Jetta 28.

All performing well and deserving of their spot at present. Logic says one or more will be "slowing down" soon either this year or next.

This post is about what is coming through at VFL level.

Backlines at VFL level don't get much publicity and of course the modern game means that positions blur.

The two obvious candidates are Wagner and Hunt.

Wagner has been tried as we all know and equally he is often the first to be dropped.

Hunt has to rediscover his mojo and there is perhaps a question over whether his game style is consistent with the modern game plan.

Oskar Baker is a prime candidate and is coming along.

Wondering if posters think there are other players who should be trialled down back... (I would like to think that Billy Stretch might be a candidate but logic is against it.)

Alternatively, is it an eventuality for which we should be trading at years end.

One of the Smiths, Keilty and Oskar B seem to be readying and could be trialled, soon. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Petty.

Then Hibberd and Hunt to take smaller players ala Lewis/Vince.

Jetta will be around for a few more years (I hope).

Interesting ... need to ponder on that

[Dante 2,739]

23 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

One of the Smiths, Keilty and Oskar B seem to be readying and could be trialled, soon. 

Yeah, as soon as Bernie or Jordie want a week off and clock someone. 

Serously Joel Smith seems to have dropped off the radar a bit, I know he was injured but has his form been ordinary?

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

6 minutes ago, Dante said:

Yeah, as soon as Bernie or Jordie want a week off and clock someone. 

Serously Joel Smith seems to have dropped off the radar a bit, I know he was injured but has his form been ordinary?

 

When starting this thread my idea was to prompt discussion around the inevitability that there is two spots coming up for grabs in the senior team.

No one at VFL level is exactly smashing the door down to lay claim to either of these places.

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

I'd like Dion Johnstone to be trialled as a small lock down defender similar to Jetta's role. I haven't heard anything about him this year as a small forward. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

3 minutes ago, Caligula's cohort said:

I'd like Dion Johnstone to be trialled as a small lock down defender similar to Jetta's role. I haven't heard anything about him this year as a small forward. 

good idea.. he does not seem to be progressing in his current position.

Could it also be a last chance trial for JKH?

Of course Jetta is the youngest of the three amigos so hopefully he has another two years at least left in him.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

10 minutes ago, Caligula's cohort said:

I'd like Dion Johnstone to be trialled as a small lock down defender similar to Jetta's role. I haven't heard anything about him this year as a small forward. 

I think I read in the Casey thread yesterday that Johnstone was playing in the backline.

His skillset may be well suited to a shut-down role: he's got some pace, is tough, physical and a strong tackler.  His football 'smarts' are the major concern at this stage.

[Deemania since 56 6,651]

3 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I think I read in the Casey thread yesterday that Johnstone was playing in the backline.

His skillset may be well suited to a shut-down role: he's got some pace, is tough, physical and a strong tackler.  His football 'smarts' are the major concern at this stage.

 

3 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I think I read in the Casey thread yesterday that Johnstone was playing in the backline.

His skillset may be well suited to a shut-down role: he's got some pace, is tough, physical and a strong tackler.  His football 'smarts' are the major concern at this stage.

Wonder how he might go back there...has he got Jetta's leap ... he is a shorty who must get high to spoil as Jetta does so regularly with aplomb as an interceptor?

[pineapple dee 2,892]

2 hours ago, Caligula's cohort said:

I'd like Dion Johnstone to be trialled as a small lock down defender similar to Jetta's role. I haven't heard anything about him this year as a small forward. 

I'm not sure what DJ' s skill set is but someone on another thread is flagging his delisting. Would love to see what he brings to the table

[monoccular 17,432]

2 hours ago, Dante said:

Yeah, as soon as Bernie or Jordie want a week off and clock someone. 

Serously Joel Smith seems to have dropped off the radar a bit, I know he was injured but has his form been ordinary?

 

Round 1 last year Joel Smith looked like maybe becoming ‘the next big thing’ until Riewoldt buggered his shoulder.  

Has he not recovered physically, or has that knocked all confidence from him?

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

2 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

I'm not sure what DJ' s skill set is but someone on another thread is flagging his delisting. Would love to see what he brings to the table

DJ has good speed and aggression but doesn't have any noticeable impact on the footy. He regularly has disposals in single figures and often goes goalless. 

He may be flagged for delisting, but you might as well try players in all parts of the ground before writing them off. I even remember calling for Jetta to be delisted in his early days playing as a forward.

[buck_nekkid 5,876]

There are several dimensions to this.

1.  Leadership.  As Oskar and Lever grow together, they can take more of Jordan’s leadership, and be the back line generals.

2. Roles.  I see Oskar and Lever owning their roles.  Upgrades for Lewis and Jetta in time.  Can see Jetta being there for a few years, Lewis this and maybe some of next year.  Can see Lewis’ role taken by a Joel Smith type, Hubbard to keep at it, and Hunt to refine his mojo.  If not, Baker could step up.  Tall defenders- Frosty and Keilty are in the wings, interesting to see if DK can go past Frosty, and what role then Frosty takes?

as for the Jetta replacement, some of the suggestions re Dion and JKH might be good options for development.  Otherwise we might be a bit light on in this department.  The small defender for the number one small forward is a critical defensive role.

we have a back 6 that seems to be working well at the moment.  Building depth in all posts is critical in case something happens to one of them.

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

I copied this wonderful post from Vogon Poetry on this week's Casey Game.

Interesting that JKH was named in the backline but appears to have played forward.

Anyway I have bolded those who have formed part of our discussion so far.

Would be interesting to follow this group of players through the reminder of the season with a view as to who  might get the prize.

From Vogon Poetry

I ventured to Casey yesterday against my better judgement because when you get a chance to see 17 Demons running around and the weather is good the lure is just too strong.  Here's how I thought our blokes went.  As always when making these comments remember that the ground is big and it's very hard to see exactly what's happening on the other side.  There was a slight breeze blowing to the forward pocket at the northern end so that's where I stood.

Jack Viney:  First clearance of the match and first kick was just great to see.  He was harder and faster around the stoppages than everyone else and did a lot of the grunt stuff.  Looked in good touch and was generally very clean and kicked the ball well when he got the opportunity.  But he was heavily tagged for 3 quarters so he didn't find much space.  I'd be stunned if he wasn't back next week.

Billy Stretch:  I was a huge fan but was frustrated by his lack of improvement but yesterday I saw another side of Billy because instead of playing wing he played on ball, centre square and inside mid as well as outside.  And he did it very well.  He found the ball regularly, he had clean hands and pretty good decision making.  Initially he found his kicks and handballs smothered but as the game went on and he got his confidence he got better and better.  He's not as small as you might think and he's starting to use his body well in contested situations.  Finished with a lovely goal and was one of, if not, the best on the ground.  It is hard to see where he fits into the team though but will remain with us or in the AFL system based on yesterdays performace.  His challange is to back it up.  Promising signs but a way to go.

Frost:  Played a solid game with some good contested marking at times and a bit of dash and continued to do what he does.  He's a tweener at the moment, probably a bit too good for VFL but not good enough for AFL.  Still prone to silly mistakes like letting the ball go over the back of packs when he's last up but was a good contributor on the day.

Pedersen:  Full of fumbles I thought in the first half and not much of a contributor but stuck at it and played better as the game went on.  A great mark in the second quarter and a good contributor.  He played KPF and relief ruck.

JKH:  Played mainly forward and didn't really get into the game much.  Kicked the first goal of the match and I thought he might be in for a good one but faded and whilst he was far from poor he wasn't a major contributor.  It's hard to see where he goes from here.

Harley Balic:  He's an interesting player and one that if and when he plays senior footy for us will do it competently.  Played mainly high forward and was very clean with the ball, found it well and kicked it well.  Is capable above his head and knows where to run to provide options and find space.  It was his first game back for a while and he'd be pretty pleased with it.  It's hard to see where he fits in and will need some injuries to get a chance you'd think but when he plays he may well make it hard for whoever he replaces to get back in.  I like him and think at present he's a terrific 23 to 30 player on the list but he might improve significantly over time.  One to watch.

Jayden Hunt:  Poor old Jayden.  Looks bereft of confidence and really struggled to find the ball and get involved.  He just needs to start to try and enjoy his footy again and concentrate on the basics.  We all know what he can do but he didn't do it yesterday.

Tomas Bugg:  I'm not a fan but there's no doubt he can play at this level.  Started quite slowly but fought his way into the game and then really dominated it for a period where he kicked 3 goals quickly.  They were at the other end to me so I can't really judge them but he was a good contributor in the typical Buggy way.  It's really nice to see he's left the fake toughness behind and is just playing footy.

Oscar Baker:  Played wing and did it well.  I've seen him three time now live and yesterday was the best of them.  In the past the major knock is a lack of composure and an inability to see options and take them.  But yesterday was much better and he used the ball quite well.  He runs hard and takes the game on and has clean hands.  He goes hard for the ball too.  My view is he's still a long way from senior selection but moving in the right direction.  He certainly has some great attributes and he's great to watch and improving.

Harrison Petty:  I love this kid and that's what he is, a kid.  He reads the play really well, he reads the ball in the air really well and he's got sure hands above his head.  And when he gets it he has good vision and executes really well.  He was far from dominant yesterday but you can just tell he knows how to play footy and is a great prospect.  Two more preseasons I reckon and we'll all be happy.

Jeff Garlett:  It's hard to appreciate how quick he is unless you see it close hand.  And it's hard to understand how he can see options in a sea of players as quickly as he does.  But he does and was a clear cut above this level yesterday although he didn't get a lot of it.  He applied pressure and provided options yesterday as well as spending some time on ball.  Reality is he's a cut above Spargo at the moment (no criticism of Spargo) so I guess his selection will come down to how he's playing his role and whether Goody wants him back.  But he will get back and he is in our best 22 when he's going.

Dion Johnstone:  I think he's struggling at the moment and he played mainly back yesterday in what for me was a new role for him (I can't remember where he played against Richmond when I last saw him).  He's tough and he has a go but he's struggling to find the ball and get involved.  Hope he picks up but at the moment he's miles away.

Josh Wagner:  Solid and hard at it and a very good VFL player who did his bit yesterday in a very good team effort.  But he won't be pressing for a call up given yesterday's performance and that of the seniors.

Joel Smith:  He's getting back if he isn't back already.  I loved his game yesterday.  He was involved, he was clean, he did things faster than almost everyone else, he ran well and he provided options and got into space as well as being strong in the air.  His kicking is a weakness but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't press very hard for a game in the next month or so on that form.  He's great to watch.

Tim Smith:  I've watched Tim over a long period now and although he's played some good games I've never thought he had AFL attributes -  until yesterday.  He was fantastic I thought.  Strong in the air, strong on the ground and found plenty of it.  He's not called Bull for nothing and for the first time yesterday I thought he really could play AFL footy.  Great game.

Dec Keilty:  He played a really solid strong game without dominating.  I didn't see him make a mistake and he took some solid marks.  He was one of our three talls who, against good opposition, played their role well.

Lachlin Filipovic:  I like this kid.  He had to play against Ceglar who is a good near quality AFL ruckman and would replace McEvoy very competently.  Flipper did well in the ruck but struggled around the ground and in the air against a much more mature player.  But he does get involved and he has surprisingly good skills for a ruckman of his height and appears to make pretty good decisions.  I'd be amazed if he's not retained as a long term development project because he's showing good attributes.

 

The game was a pretty fierce contest yesterday and Casey were relentless in their pressure and tackling and it was a genuine 4 quarter effort. The Hawks always threatened as they have very good system and use it well by foot but Casey just fought so hard all day that they finally wore them down to kick away to what appears to be a comfortable win but wasn't.  Good fun yesterday and great to see the spirit and effort of all the players.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Diamond_Jim

[DeeSpencer 25,717]

Oscar, Lever and Salem should steady the backline for a long time and hopefully Hibberd and Jetta have plenty left as well.

Having both Vince and Lewis in the back 7 is a concern but I think if we get Hunt right he can take Bernie's place. If not him then Joel Smith this year and/or Petty sooner rather than later. In an ideal world Lever is the 3rd tall, he can be a 20+ touches aggressive ball user and we can find more ball use from talls as well if they are developed correctly.

Half back flank is the easiest position on the ground to play, so it's about growing the midfield depth to able to have classy users from half back and making sure the lock down or two way defenders are the right players.

Of the backline it's Jetta who I think is hardest to replace. Small lock down defender is still quite the specialist position so I hope at some stage in the next year or so we find a guy who is really suited to the job. 

[Demonland 72,217]

Interested to hear @Drunkn167's thoughts on this.

[Drunkn167 5,093]

34 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Interested to hear @Drunkn167's thoughts on this.

This is a very interesting discussion. 

I guess I'll put forward my opinions on the individual players being discussed, and you guys can take from that what you will.

Hunt isn't in form at the moment but obviously we have seen what he is capable at doing at AFL level. Wagner can play that half-back role strongly too when he is up and about, and don't forget this is only his third year after being Rookie drafted, so he should continue to get better. J. Smith has been killed with injuries but yesterday started to play some much better footy, I think he could do the Lewis/Vince role pretty well, with an added bonus of his fantastic aerial skills. JKH isn't a backman and I don't think he has the skillset to do the Jetta role. Frost, I think, still has room for improvement and he has shown some good signs at AFL level.

As for the guys yet to debut, Johnstone is being trialed down back at the moment but unfortunately it looks like he may not ever get to AFL standard. Baker has been super impressive, and is very versatile. Can play half-back, wing and half-forward which could be very useful in the AFL. Petty has shown good signs as a Key Defender, which is probably the hardest role to fill in the game. And it's hard for me not to be biased with Keilty, but if he strings together a few good games over the next month or two he will be in contention for AFL selection. 

I don't think it's going be necessary to change up players roles to suit the backline, as there are a number of defenders in the VFL doing well and if it comes to the point where Lewis and Vince need replacing, the defenders we already have in reserve should be able to step up into the job.

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

Fair summary Drunk'n but it tends to support my view that there is certainly no one smashing it down back at present.

Will follow the boys down back closely.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

Wonder if Harley Balic could develop into the Vince/Lewis role?

[daisycutter 29,616]

there is no valid reason these days why a "small lockdown defender" has to be "small" so our discussion of neville's future replacement needn't be limited to small defender types.

[demon-4-life 467]

I'd like to think Lord Nev has a good 4-5 years ahead of him.  Let's not jump the gun here.

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

1 hour ago, demon-4-life said:

I'd like to think Lord Nev has a good 4-5 years ahead of him.  Let's not jump the gun here.

agree... the thread was mainly to consider Lewis and Vince but as I said in my OP Nev is now 28 and not that many players go much beyond 30. Sure some do but they are the exception.

He has another two seasons at least ... injuries aside... but as there are 3 players that are in the window it is not insensitive to have the conversation. Wanted more to look at what is coming through and whether the club is being pro active in identifying the talent from within.