Post Match Discussion - Round 5

[DaveyDee 421]

 

Richmond didn’t play that well, lots of skill errors. They’re being sat on a pedastal by the media. We were just very lucky they didn’t play their best or they would’ve been 8-10g up at a half time

I agree with you - I thought we did quite well for just under 3 quarters. Then they ran over the top of us. 

Hopefully, it dispelled the idea that the Tigers won a premiership thanks to luck - there is no luck to winning a premiership. 

There is a formula  to win a premiership-

but such is life some people have the tools to be successful some people will never have those tools. 

Still think now Essendon assistant coach put it best 90% of us are going one way 10% are still today going the other way. Change for some is really difficult. 10% of our club is stuck in 1964 - and act like little children when we lose. 

People that want to speak positevly about the club are nothing more than “trolls” - such is life. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by DaveyDee

[jnrmac 20,319]

 

In addition to this, what exactly does this football club do to justify getting two blockbuster games each year? In what way do we deserve these fixtures more so than a St Kilda or a Bulldogs? The criteria usually comes down to one of two things: Sky high membership and/or performance on the field and right now this club shows none of that. We haven’t been in the finals for 12 years for crying out loud! 

I’m sorry if this upsets some people but I could totally understand if these other clubs were frustrated at us getting these opportunities on a regular basis when we probably don’t deserve them. We are what we are and that is a mediocre football club who doesn’t really know anything about the big stage. 

Thanks for that summary. Could you please now explain why Carlton get 6 prime time Friday/Saturday  night games this year?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Richmond just do the little things so much better than us.

Put aside the fact that our structure is all wrong and we are stagnant with our ball movement, it's the way they work for each other, break tackles, make tackles, clear the ball form contested situations and spread compared to us that had me most concerned.

[beelzebub 23,392]

 

My biggest problem and one that’s the most cause for concern is why have we gone backwards, we shouldn’t be this bad and players have gone backwards in a big way since last year it isn’t funny. Big 4 weeks coming up. 

The greatest of real worries for mine. Be bad enough if we were stagnating ...not furthering our 'brand' ...but as you rightly note we're actually sliding backwards.

The younger ones have more games..and getting worse. Older ones suffering from Footy-Oldtimers ...just forgetting to play !!

A lot of movement....no progression.

 

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

[Lucifers Hero 40,656]

 

Richmond just do the little things so much better than us.

Put aside the fact that our structure is all wrong and we are stagnant with our ball movement, it's the way they work for each other, break tackles, make tackles, clear the ball form contested situations and spread compared to us that had me most concerned.

I think you have hit the 'secret' of their turnaround from 2016 to premiers in 2017.

At the end of 2016 Richmond recruited Blake Caracella as Midfield Coach - spread and ball movement.  He has been credit with transforming their game plan from hand-balling backwards and in circles to a slick forward ball moving team.  It took a while in 2017 to fine tune their spread and ball movement and it really came together in September.  

In our coaching structure we do not have a Caracella role.  I assume it falls into Plapp's role as midfield coach with buy in from other field coaches.  

Our overall plan is players to the contest and we don't seem to have a spread and ball-movement plan so we look stagnant and our players look uncertain. 

The big question is:  how do they fix our ball-movement problems quickly.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

 

The big question is:  how do they fix our ball-movement problems quickly.

I think we get too many players around the ball, we need to have some players hold off around the contest and not to sucked in.

 

[beelzebub 23,392]

 

I think you have hit the 'secret' of their turnaround from 2016 to premiers in 2017.

At the end of 2016 Richmond recruited Blake Caracella as Midfield Coach - spread and ball movement.  He has been credit with transforming their game plan from hand-balling backwards and in circles to a slick forward ball moving team.  It took a while in 2017 to fine tune their spread and ball movement and it really came together in September.  

In our coaching structure we do not have a Caracella role.  I assume it falls into Plapp's role as midfield coach with buy in from other field coaches.  

Our overall plan is players to the contest and we don't seem to have a spread and ball-movement plan so we look stagnant and our players look uncertain. 

The big question is:  how do they fix our ball-movement problems quickly.

It seems to be that the approach by the Marvelous Three is to create a team of players who are all beasts at the contest. Its actually spoken of in a fashion as such. But that's not Footy and as seen on Tues night such a limited approach only affords better equipped teams with the opportunity to utilise space. In two successive games we were opened up because we concentrated too much in finite spaced...crowding ourselves...having NO options...but giving opposition plenty.

We have the wrong approach. It wil kill us inmore games to come if no change.

[Lucifers Hero 40,656]

 

I think we get too many players around the ball, we need to have some players hold off around the contest and not to sucked in.

Definitely.

Other ball-movement issues remain: field positioning, bombing it forward, kick outs, tempo, switching etc. 

In addition to good midfield spread, Richmond have a cohesive end to end ball movement chain where players immediately know where to run depending on who has the ball.  It may not always work but it is there and players know their role and work hard to make it happen.  As someone else said they are very well drilled on their role within their game plan. 

We on the other hand work very, very hard but seem less certain on where to position and what option to take when we have the ball - on Tuesday night it was like a hot potato for some players.  It is sad as we are not getting the reward for all our hard work.

[Earl Hood 6,162]

 

I think we get too many players around the ball, we need to have some players hold off around the contest and not to sucked in.

 

I agree I was watching an old film yesterday Custer’s Last Stand with Errol Flynn and it was like watching the last quarter of the Hawks and Tigers games! With Max Gawn playing General Custer! 

[DaveyDee 421]

 

Richmond just do the little things so much better than us.

Put aside the fact that our structure is all wrong and we are stagnant with our ball movement, it's the way they work for each other, break tackles, make tackles, clear the ball form contested situations and spread compared to us that had me most concerned.

No. What the Tigers players do very well is understand “their role” - they are developed, drilled week in week out so it becomes instinctive. 

ironically the single toughest Tiger to get to understand this was ”Jumpin Jack” - but today he is the biggest advocate. Oh how things change. 

[beelzebub 23,392]

^^^^^ yeah thats called doing the little things well ?

[jnrmac 20,319]

 

I think you have hit the 'secret' of their turnaround from 2016 to premiers in 2017.

At the end of 2016 Richmond recruited Blake Caracella as Midfield Coach - spread and ball movement.  He has been credit with transforming their game plan from hand-balling backwards and in circles to a slick forward ball moving team.  It took a while in 2017 to fine tune their spread and ball movement and it really came together in September.  

In our coaching structure we do not have a Caracella role.  I assume it falls into Plapp's role as midfield coach with buy in from other field coaches.  

Our overall plan is players to the contest and we don't seem to have a spread and ball-movement plan so we look stagnant and our players look uncertain. 

The big question is:  how do they fix our ball-movement problems quickly.

Gee we already have Rawlings, Plapp and Chaplin from the Tigers.... have I missed any?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

 

Richmond didn’t play that well, lots of skill errors. They’re being sat on a pedastal by the media. We were just very lucky they didn’t play their best or they would’ve been 8-10g up at a half time

To be fair we couldn't have played much worse either yet were within 20 points at half time

[SFebes 4,884]

 

To be fair we couldn't have played much worse either yet were within 20 points at half time

Yep it was a rubbish game until we waved the white flag

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

 

Richmond just do the little things so much better than us.

Put aside the fact that our structure is all wrong and we are stagnant with our ball movement, it's the way they work for each other, break tackles, make tackles, clear the ball form contested situations and spread compared to us that had me most concerned.

Most of that comes down to confidence

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

 

I think we get too many players around the ball, we need to have some players hold off around the contest and not to sucked in.

 

Conversely, when we had possession our players were often gang-tackled and couldn't get the ball away cleanly to players waiting outside the contest

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

 

Conversely, when we had possession our players were often gang-tackled and couldn't get the ball away cleanly to players waiting outside the contest

You are wasting your time, a win is all that matters to some

The last qtr was appalling, but the previous 3 we held our own against a team that is flying at the moment

It was a good game of footy for those 3 qtrs

We have 1 issue and it has nothing to do with game plans, for 5 games we haven't managed to get 22 players to play 4 qtrs and some haven't managed 2

I still don't think the team has settled, neither does Goodwin hence the constant changes

We are still a work in progress.

 

[DeleteUser 638]

 

Most of that comes down to confidence

good insight

I am reminded of Greg Norman's 1996 6 shot lead breakdown at Augusta.

No confidence.

Faldo oozed it.

So, how does the club shift the players from current state to desired future state

[Dr. Gonzo 24,461]

 

good insight

I am reminded of Greg Norman's 1996 6 shot lead breakdown at Augusta.

No confidence.

Faldo oozed it.

So, how does the club shift the players from current state to desired future state

That is a good question. I wonder whether we spend much time managing the mental aspect of our players within the club. Richmond have spruiked the mindfulness work they've been doing and I think it is something that could really benefit us especially the younger players.

Mistakes, inflexibility & frenetic behaviour can all be symptoms of anxiousness or lack of confidence. Our team seems to be "off" mentally at the moment for example even when individuals are playing well (Hogan, Gawn, Hibberd etc) there's no flow with the rest of the team. Their good work is isolated, there is no smooth play with the team as a whole. This can be a result of a structural breakdown and/or fumbling, second-guessing, lack of confidence in each other etc

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

 

Conversely, when we had possession our players were often gang-tackled and couldn't get the ball away cleanly to players waiting outside the contest

Richmond still managed to get the ball away cleanly when we tackled them.

That's the problem, they can and we can't.

 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

 

So, how does the club shift the players from current state to desired future state

That might be a bit rhetorical but I have a seemingly stupid yet obvious solution... Kick Goals!!

These streaks continue to be a an issue for our back half, yes. But just as big issue right now is Infront of goal. ANB, Melksham, Oliver, pettracca, harmes, Bugg  have all spent large minutes in any given game in the forward line for just 18 goals this season between all of them them. God help us that of them, only Bugg averaging more than 1 in a game.

We can put on all the pressure in the world but without the rewards on the scoreboard the players don't get that adrenaline rush to help them keep going. You continue to waste chances like we did in the 1st and 3rd qtrs and it gets harder and harder to keep up the pressure you get more tired more flat from wasted energy until eventually there's a missed tackle and then the opposition is out the back and all momentum lost. Our forward half defensive structure is really good but without reward it is pointless. 

We can't continue to play so many 'forwards' who don't impact the scoreboard. This year Melksham and Harmes have both been goalless 4 times, Oliver and Pettracca 3 each Bugg, ANB and Fritsch all twice.

Time in the middle impacts Oliver and Pettracca obviously, but they should be averaging 1 each a game surely, not 1 between them. Particularly if they are going to be the rotating threats we want.. Right now there's no threat to the opposition playing then forward

Hannan might be a bit polarising but the reality is he hits the scoreboard every week. Even when he plays poorly he tends to be good for at least a goal and is just about our only forward that can score in heavy congestion. Exactly the type of forward we need with our undeniable ability to get repeat entries. He certainly is not going to solve all our problems but it's a pretty good start. 

 

[jnrmac 20,319]

 

You are wasting your time, a win is all that matters to some

The last qtr was appalling, but the previous 3 we held our own against a team that is flying at the moment

It was a good game of footy for those 3 qtrs

We have 1 issue and it has nothing to do with game plans, for 5 games we haven't managed to get 22 players to play 4 qtrs and some haven't managed 2

I still don't think the team has settled, neither does Goodwin hence the constant changes

 We are still a work in progress.

 

I would argue we haven't done that since Bailey was coach.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

 

You are wasting your time, a win is all that matters to some

 

During the first quarter when the scores were close I wrote "this could get ugly" based purely on the way the team was playing, including all the small issues previously mentioned.

It had nothing to do with the score, it was simply a matter of time before Richmond ran over us based on the way we were playing.

[Lucifers Hero 40,656]

 

That is a good question. I wonder whether we spend much time managing the mental aspect of our players within the club. Richmond have spruiked the mindfulness work they've been doing and I think it is something that could really benefit us especially the younger players.

Tammy Roos ran a meditation/mindfulness program for us for several years and I recall some players saying how good it was for them especially the sessions before a game.  Dusty has credited meditation as a significant factor in his improvement in recent years.

Our current coaching panel seems to prefer the macho commando style camps for mental toughness.  This was cancelled last December. 

So atm it seems we are doing neither for mental development. 

Intuitively, the 'mindfulness' approach (which is much more than meditation) seems better suited to today's 'millennials'.