Top 10 under 23 - The Young Guns

[Watts the matter 1,235]

51 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Hogan is deserving and underrated by many of his own fans.

You can see what's happened here.  He knows Oliver should be in it, but he thought there's no way I can have 4 Melbourne players.  Oliver isn't universally popular, so he made way.

Lever is quite overrated, by both Guthrie and the Melbourne recruitment staff. Oliver is a mile ahead.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Lever is quite overrated, by both Guthrie and the Melbourne recruitment staff. Oliver is a mile ahead.

No he isn't.  What are you basing this on?  One game?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Oliver is so underrated it isn't funny, not just in this list, but in general. And to remove bias, I would take him comfortably before any of our other 3 selections in that top 10.

[Gator 16,893]

7 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Lever is quite overrated, by both Guthrie and the Melbourne recruitment staff. Oliver is a mile ahead.

Happy to disagree.

The most valuable defenders in the game are tall intercept defenders and Lever is one of the best 3 in the game.

Intercept defenders are more valuable than dour lockdown key defenders.

Last year he was second for intercept marks and first for intercept possessions.  

His football IQ is through the roof.

Geelong put a tonne of effort into combating his game, which is evidence in itself of how they see his importance.

Edited March 27, 2018 by ProDee

[Watts the matter 1,235]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

No he isn't.  What are you basing this on?  One game?

No, I've long held this view and you could see that in the numerous threads prior to Lever joining us. 

He is not a key position player and is not quick or an exceptional kick. It will be interesting to see how the year pans out.

Posters calling for Frost to come into the team so Lever can play his role kind of reinforces this view.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

Happy to disagree.

The most valuable defenders in the game are tall intercept defenders and Lever is in the best top 3 in the game.

Last year he was second for intercept marks and first for intercept possessions.  

His football IQ is through the roof.

Geelong put a tonne of effort into combating his game, which is evidence in itself of how they see his importance.

As did Richmond, that is why I don't rate him as highly.

I don't disagree that when he has it on his terms he is a very good player. It's when he doesn't that is my concern.

 

[Gator 16,893]

1 minute ago, Watts the matter said:

As did Richmond, that is why I don't rate him as highly.

I don't disagree that when he has it on his terms he is a very good player. It's when he doesn't that is my concern.

 

He's 22.

He's 14 days older than Oscar McDonald.

He's going to be a superstar for a decade.

Edited March 27, 2018 by ProDee

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

He's 21.

He's 14 days older than Oscar McDonald.

He's going to be a superstar for a decade.

As a 2nd tall or 3rd tall?

[rjay 23,922]

3 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

As a 2nd tall or 3rd tall?

As a key defender...he hasn't grown up yet.

The kid is a gun.

[Gator 16,893]

7 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

As a 2nd tall or 3rd tall?

I can't be bothered having this argument, so no need to reply.

But two things: I've edited my post, because he's 22 and secondly, his role is the tall intercept defender, which is the most important in footy.  It's more important than dour lockdown key defenders.

He's a key defender in my eyes, but I don't care whether you call him the 2nd, 3rd, 6th or 7th defender, the role of the tall intercept defender, i.e the defender with the highest IQ, who reads the game better than any other defender, is the most important role in modern footy.

If you don't get it no biggie.

Edited March 27, 2018 by ProDee

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

I can't be bothered having this argument, so no need to reply.

But two things: I've edited my post, because he's 22 and secondly, his role is the tall intercept defender, which is the most important in footy.  It's more important than dour lockdown key defenders.

He's a key defender in my eyes, but I don't care whether you call him the 2nd, 3rd, 6th or 7th defender, the role of the tall intercept tall defender, i.e the defender with the highest IQ, who reads the game better than any other defender, is the most important role in modern footy.

If you don't get it no biggie.

No, your opinion isn't fact, that's where it's at. 

You might believe its the most important role in footy but few would agree with you.

If you would take him ahead of any of Oliver, Petracca or Hogan you have rocks in your head.

[Gator 16,893]

3 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

No, your opinion isn't fact, that's where it's at. 

You might believe its the most important role in footy but few would agree with you.

If you would take him ahead of any of Oliver, Petracca or Hogan you have rocks in your head.

Put your bib on.

The most important role in defence in modern footy.  

I get sick of spoon feeding people.

[binman 38,165]

20 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Happy to disagree.

The most valuable defenders in the game are tall intercept defenders and Lever is one of the best 3 in the game.

Intercept defenders are more valuable than dour lockdown key defenders.

Last year he was second for intercept marks and first for intercept possessions.  

His football IQ is through the roof.

Geelong put a tonne of effort into combating his game, which is evidence in itself of how they see his importance.

Agree with all of this PD. No question he is a gun and like rance, when he gets to his mid twenties he'll be strong enough to go man on man with any player in the league so that weakness will be addressed. He, like Rance, will still play the intercept role though.

Out of interest whats your view on Goody's response to how the Cats isolated Lever and dulled his influence, something most clubs will look to do as they will with Rance and McGovern. Mine is he was slow to react. 

[Gator 16,893]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Agree with all of this PD. No question he is a gun and like rance, when he gets to his mid twenties he'll be strong enough to go man on man with any player in the league so that weakness will be addressed. He, like Rance, will still play the intercept role though.

Out of interest whats your view on Goody's response to how the Cats isolated Lever and dulled his influence, something most clubs will look to do as they will with Rance and McGovern. Mine is he was slow to react. 

I reckon it's really difficult to make meaningful changes until the main break when you're leading at quarter time.  You can make positional changes, but this was a team defence issue across the entire ground, not just a Jake Lever issue. 

You spend six months planning for one game.  And it's a game that you don't really know how is going to pan out.  You know what you're trying to do, but don't know how well your players will implement it and while you have an idea about the other side you don't know exactly what their plans are, what structural changes they'll make, or how their new players will effect the game.  There are so many unknowns in round 1.

We now have 120 minutes of footage that they can analyse to within an inch of its life.  They will learn a heap from this game.  And they'll keep learning over the next few rounds.  

We lost a game that statistically you win 95 times out of 100.  The overreactions on here have been a sight to behold.

[nedariks 22]

29 to 27 scoring shots, they missed some sitters as well.

They were also a man down most of the games.

You really think we win that 95 times in 100.

[binman 38,165]

7 minutes ago, nedariks said:

29 to 27 scoring shots, they missed some sitters as well.

They were also a man down most of the games.

You really think we win that 95 times in 100.

Reasonable point but really we should have been 4 goals up after the first quarter and had a chance to stretch it out to 3 goals early in the second before we had our customary 20 minute brain fade.

You lose very few games when you dominate the contested ball the way we did. 

[Bimbo 903]

27 minutes ago, nedariks said:

29 to 27 scoring shots, they missed some sitters as well.

They were also a man down most of the games.

You really think we win that 95 times in 100.

The statistics would suggest that if

- You win three quarters

- massively win the inside 50's

- Massively win the tackles

- Comfortably win clearances

- win contested ball count

You would expect to win the game 19 times out of 20

[Gator 16,893]

46 minutes ago, nedariks said:

29 to 27 scoring shots, they missed some sitters as well.

They were also a man down most of the games.

You really think we win that 95 times in 100.

Yes.

Teams that win the inside 50 count by 20 or more statistically win 95% of the time.

Fact.

[Jaded No More 57,964]

If McDonald plays, we win by 2-3 goals, simply because those 875 forward 50 entries don't all end up being kicked to Garlett 2-on-1 in the goal square. 

Of course if Dangerfield plays we probably lose by 5 goals, so there you go. 

[Ash35 425]

As a supporter of a club other than Melbourne looking in, I would have thought on performances thus far in their careers, Oliver was Melbourne best under 23 player.

Petracca will be an out and out star, Hogan hopefully gets a decent run at it and shows us what he can really do, and Lever should be a 250 game AFL player, but from my point of point, Oliver has probably out performed them all up until now, even with Hogan winning the Rising Star award.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Yes.

Teams that win the inside 50 count by 20 or more statistically win 95% of the time.

Fact.

Unless you're Melbourne and can lose even when you have 29 more inside 50s.

[Gator 16,893]

6 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Unless you're Melbourne and can lose even when you have 29 more inside 50s.

23

You need to toughen up fella.  You seem a bit mentally weak.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

23

You need to toughen up fella.  You seem a bit mentally weak.

29 against West Coast in 2016.

Play the ball tough guy.

[Gator 16,893]

1 minute ago, Watts the matter said:

29 against West Coast in 2016.

Play the ball tough guy.

I recognise a woe is me kind of guy when I find one.

[Willmoy1947 3,780]

MEMO: Coaching Staff at Melbourne FC.... please ban this Topic from reading or hearing about  by all current MFC Footy Players for obvious reasons. Guthrie put the MFC Players in on purpose.