On 11/14/2017 at 4:48 PM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

While I thought the banning of the 3rd man up was a good idea when it was introduced, its implementation has, I think, had the opposite effect. Now umpires have to identify who is the nominated ruckman before they throw it up. That introduces an unnecessary delay which exacerbates congestion.  A quicker throw into the air should reduce congestion, and if a club can't work out which of their players should jump for the ball and end up with more than one, blow the whistle and pay the free kick.  

 

1 hour ago, sue said:

A good idea except we now have the 'stand 1m apart' rule which would have to go if the umpires don't know who it is that has to stand apart.  What would be the effect of dropping the newish 1m rule?

 

The AFL. These are the people with their hands on the controls of our game.

It's so obvious to not require "nominations" ... just say, only one of your players goes up and if you can't get that right, you give away a free.

With the 1m rule, you could have a "bounce down", so the contesting "ruckmen" don't know for sure where the ball is going, and decide to stand a little way apart to advantage themselves, and give themselves a "runup" so as to help them "leap at" the ball and get one up on the opponent.

But no, the AFL know better.

Another one is the deliberate behinds rule. Bad rule, with bad compensations on top making it even worse.

On 14/11/2017 at 12:13 PM, KingDingAling said:

Should have gotten rid of the bounce a long time ago. Throwing it up will suit Gawn.

I see what you did there

4 hours ago, tiers said:

What is the AFL doing to our game? A  "stand 1 m apart" rule is just another added burden for umpires and players. It's the rules that are destroying the umpires, not the players or the coaches.

As I mentioned elsewhere, go a view matches from the 80s, especially finals in 87, and see how easily the umpires controlled the game.

A quick ball up as soon as the ball is trapped and no need for the umpires to notify an exit path,  determine who is contesting or ensure that they are 1 m apart. A quick ball up does not allow for the wrestling matches to start.

There used to be a time when free kicks were awarded for infringements in a contest. Not any more - stand in the wrong place and you are penalised. Reminds me of the absurd rules in other grossly inferior sports.

I suggest that the umpires be instructed to ball up as soon as the ball is trapped and eliminate the stupid other rules at the ball up. It's time to simplify the rules to enhance the spectacle of the our game.

So basically a lot of the worst rule changes have been made because the standard of umpiring has declined and the AFL are trying to compensate for their ineptitude. 

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

The current AFL admin, with their hands on the controls of our game, are about to balls it up again. Pun intended.

There used to be this thing ... the art of ruckwork ... a unique position, with a unique skill set. And apart form making our game different, it was another thing to watch and enjoy ... like pack marking .... like a leading full forward ... like two centremen playing man on man for 120 minutes ... as the two ruckmen had to contend with a ball that doesn't go perfectly vertical, and bounces to a different height each time, so they had to judge where and when it was going to go, and get to it, and tap, palm, or punch the ball to their teammate.

Some ruckmen were beanpoles. Some were big fat buggers. Some had mighty leaps. Some were practically nailed to the ground. Various kinds but they all had this beautiful thing, the art of ruckwork, at their disposal.

Because of their misguided "fixing" of rules that required no fixing, the AFL have watered down this skill set gradually to the point where it is nearly non existent.

Now it will be a totally predictable tipoff. Totally predictable means every ball up will be a set play, which means more players in their assigned position ready to charge in the moment leaves the ump's hand, which equals more congestion. Just what the game needs. well done AFL.

 

Will their poor arms drop off because of the amazing physical impact of throwing up this odd shaped thing? Why haven't we heard of boundary umps hospitalised with dislocated arms? They give it a hell of a heave.

 

Possibly because some rules of the game, which made having a ruckman in your lineup an advantage, have been altered bit by bit over years.

 

If the AFL are going to remove every variable from the game, anything which "might cost someone a grand final!!!!!", then they might as well simulate the whole thing on computers and send the results out on twitter. Save a heap of dosh on player payments. Season can go for 34 rounds too.

 

I seem to recall Eleni doing a pretty good job of bouncing the ball .It's not like it requires incredible strength. Watch a female golf pro hit the ball. They can really spank it and no one would call them "strong". Fit and well skilled, yes. "Fit" and "well skilled" are things that are within a lot of peoples' reach, particularly if they are full time professionals with the time to devote to fitness and honing their skills. (Spot the glaring red flag.)

Bouncing the ball is a skill that the AFL have allowed to atrophy over the years, to where it is now almost terminal. Like an endangered species with two breeding pairs left. It's probably going to die out because it may now be too late for remedial action.

Watch replays of old. One and two umps bouncing the ball all over the ground, all match, on surfaces nowhere near as consistent and of good quality as today. Incredibly, they didn't end up hospitalised with their arms falling off due to the impossible physical demands of bouncing a wet muddy ball all day long.

And they didn't recall it if it didn't go straight up. It was up to this facet of the game, the art of ruckwork, to  come in to play to anticpate, allow for , and counter this imperfect flight of the bounced ball. A beautiful thing.

Now to be another football dodo and another regression of our game towards hybrid rubgy.

The reason l mentioned Eleni is that she had actually said it herself and l remember the commentators mention it at the time of play. However it is not any disrespect to Eleni. I am stating a fact. (You have gone over the top.) with your answer. I haven't seen any arms drop off.

 

4 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Possibly because some rules of the game, which made having a ruckman in your lineup an advantage, have been altered bit by bit over years.

 

Possibly or it could just be the speed of the game.

Most, and please note I said most, ruckmen are useless. They cant run, they cant kick, the cant handball and they are nearly always injured. I seriously doubt there is a coach in the competition that rates ruckmen. 

If anything the rules changes have aided "ruckmen" to remain in the game. It is a unique part of the game - but the writing is on the wall. 

To RalphiusMaximus

It is the other way around - the rule changes are adversely affecting the umpires who are forced to apply some of the most ridiculous interpretations. How many times have we seen free kicks awarded for a "jumper pull" when both players have been guilty and it should be seen as a part of the contest unless one player is adversely affected.

 Even worse, in most marking contests, the mutual so called "pulls" have no effect on the contest and yet much more severe pulls and pushes in a ruck contest are ignored

It's become a strict liability issue contrary to the spirit of our game - see pull, blow whistle. There was a time when minor, insignificant infractions between a forward and a defender were accepted as a test of strength and positioning. We come to see real contests - not over umpired dinky free kicks.

Same applies to the "hand in the back" - unless there is a push as well as a touch, leave it alone. And so many other ridiculous rules. I understand that there is a belief that umpires need to be able to rely on simple markers for infringements that minimises discretionary decisions.

But when they offend the spirit of the game and reduce umpiring to a "tick box" approach, then it's time for those of us who own the game to protest.

13 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

With all due respect "our game" has never been in better shape.

Sure it is...

Terrible bounces happen so often every game that I am completely fine with it, just because it is unique doesn't make it a positive thing for the game. The ruck contest shouldn't be based on luck.

So everyone rushes into the "Centre throw up" and the slow blokes push the fast blokes in the back who then cannon into someone else's shoulder/elbow/fist and breaks jaw/teeth/eye socket. Sound like another great idea dill......

On 14/11/2017 at 1:15 PM, DaveyDee said:

The game has passed ruckmen by - they are outdated Dinosaurs and have been for many years.

Max a dinosaur and outdated? Don't know that he would be impressed with that.

16 hours ago, praha said:

If EA Sports can't even get the trade algorithm for NBA Live right, what chance do we have of the AFL creating a fair and coherent computer system?

praha - surely you are aware that the AFL have never had the slightest interest in a fair system: they want one that maximizes revenue by ensuring that the “important teams” have a near monopoly on prime time games, ensuring the cycle of dependency for the “lesser clubs” who play Sunday twilight.  

8 hours ago, willmoy said:

So everyone rushes into the "Centre throw up" and the slow blokes push the fast blokes in the back who then cannon into someone else's shoulder/elbow/fist and breaks jaw/teeth/eye socket. Sound like another great idea dill......

Yes, there will be multiple serious injuries if the ball is thrown up.  FFS.  Won't somebody please think of the childen.

On 14/11/2017 at 3:35 PM, demonstone said:

 

Get rid of it and nobody will even notice the difference.

Agree. We played a game this year, maybe against the cats, which i watched on tv and didnt realise they were not bouncing it (because the centre square was soft?) until the commentators noted it in the 3rd q.

No one will care one iota 

As some note nominating the ruckman is a cause of delay, some stupid free kicks, looka silly (like orimary school kids putting their hand up) and helps create congestion because in addition to the delay the third man up cant knock it clear or to an outside runner. Now that is a stupud rule change.

Well folks, the reason for scrapping the bounce is not risk of injury.  Nor is it worry of a female's ability to bounce the ball high enough.  Nor is it inconsistent bounce.

Razor Ray says it is umpire anxiety!!. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-15/razor-ray-backs-push-to-ban-the-bounce-

To extend RR's worry a little bit - what about player anxiety?  Every time a player takes a set shot for goal he feels anxiety about missing, especially at crucial stages of the match.  Do we then remove set shots for goal from the game???  No, of course not!

He says that 'in general' the game will be better if the bounce goes.  I assume he means umpires will make better decisions if they don't have to worry about the next bounce.  Anxiety is part of any job and there is treatment for managing anxiety.  Just ask Richmond players about 'staying in the moment'. 

I would like to hear how the game will be improved not just a vague reference to 'in general'. 

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

To extend RR's worry a little bit - what about player anxiety?

I would think the players anxiety rises every time they run out on the ground and see that Ray is one of the umpires...

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Well folks, the reason for scrapping the bounce is not risk of injury.  Nor is it worry of a female's ability to bounce the ball high enough.  Nor is it inconsistent bounce.

Razor Ray says it is umpire anxiety!!. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-15/razor-ray-backs-push-to-ban-the-bounce-

To extend RR's worry a little bit - what about player anxiety?  Every time a player takes a set shot for goal he feels anxiety about missing, especially at crucial stages of the match.  Do we then remove set shots for goal from the game???  No, of course not!

He says that 'in general' the game will be better if the bounce goes.  I assume he means umpires will make better decisions if they don't have to worry about the next bounce.  Anxiety is part of any job and there is treatment for managing anxiety.  Just ask Richmond players about 'staying in the moment'. 

I would like to hear how the game will be improved not just a vague reference to 'in general'. 

Seriously what a joke...

The game would be in much better shape if you just shut your mouth and concentrated on what your job requirements are, Ray. 

Part of those requirements is bouncing a football correctly. 

Anxiety.... heard it all now....

Then these poor umps probably ended up in straight jackets did they Ray.... 

5 minutes ago, DeeMfc said:

Anxiety.... heard it all now....

Then these poor umps probably ended up in straight jackets did they Ray.... 

Dill will fall for this rubbish. I am so sick of Razor Ray being part of the game. 

The best umpires like a film editor go unnoticed...and do their job with minimal fuss

1 hour ago, DeeMfc said:

Anxiety.... heard it all now....

Then these poor umps probably ended up in straight jackets did they Ray.... 

My my, I see that umpires used to run straight back without indicating to players that that is what they will do.  Who thinks up this ludicrous ideas...

16 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Max a dinosaur and outdated? Don't know that he would be impressed with that.

Think its fair to say Max has come along way, ironically with Roos as the coach - time will tell if there is any more improvement left in him under Goodwin. 

6 hours ago, DeeMfc said:

 

Jesus! I bet all those crooked bounces cost someone a premiership!!!!!

 

Funny how we've never heard any complaints.

12 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Well folks, the reason for scrapping the bounce is not risk of injury.  Nor is it worry of a female's ability to bounce the ball high enough.  Nor is it inconsistent bounce.

Razor Ray says it is umpire anxiety!!. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-15/razor-ray-backs-push-to-ban-the-bounce-

 

Maybe instead of trying to kill the bounce, Ray should be asking the AFL for blankies.

The AFL. The mob who knee-jerked a new rule, the deliberate behinds rule, when it wasn't really needed.

The mob who responded to (sarcasm alert) public outrage, letters to the editors, speeches in parliament, and public demonstrations about players abuse of deliberate out bounds, by cracking down like a ton of bricks on it. Hard as nails, these AFL bosses.

The mob who have managed to do three quarters of FA about a genuine issue, throwing the ball. Why no crackdown on that?

The mob who have managed and counter-managed holding the ball and head-high tackles to the point where when the ump blows the whistle, no one knows what decision has been paid and why. Even the players.

The mob where the umpires director doesn't seem to know what the rules are, and expects umps to make decisions in spite of that. (Ray, maybe you've earned your blankie, mate.)

The mob who have mangled the MRP process to where it's chooklotto.

 

These are the ones who are about to decide that the bounce will play no part in our great game. Well done AFL. Another winning decision. At least we've got cheaper chips!

 

 

The game of Australian Rules Rugby has never been in better hands.

Ray's stature is such that he likely to be a future umps director. I am not encouraged.