6 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Not sure I agree Skuit with Spencer. Ten years on a list for 30-odd games. Paid probably 3 million bucks for those games. Pretty poor return on equity! 

Thing with Trenners is he seemed to lose pace in his second year. At the time I blamed excessive leg weights which they were all doing under Bailey. Not sure we'll ever know.

Not sure ROE is the best way to measure progress at a footy club!

Re the leg weghts, I maintain that Aaron Davey lost a good deal of pace when he bulked up his legs. Was never as fast as he was in his first rookie year.

13 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Agree. Let's move on.

And we will, but it won't cost you anything to stop for a moment and acknowledge a true champion.

He didn't have the accomplishments on the field that either we or he had hoped but if he doesn't personify all the great attributes of a champion I'll go hee.

We all knew it was coming. He knew it was coming. The time arrives.

We salute the fella and...indeed move on. Hope he always has the same soft spot for the mighty Dees as we do.

Interesting opinions on Demonland and I'll add to the list.

Firstly to Poita - you are aware that VDB has never been dropped since he came to the club and has been a key player in almost all of our big wins - v Richmond in 2015 and v Hawthorn in 2016 - missed the Cats game of 2015 with injury. If he's fit, he's in our 2018 side.

Spencer was hardly disappointing. He showed amazing character to come back from one of the most embarrassing debuts ever when he stubbed his toe shooting for goal and the ball dribbled about five feet. His game against St Kilda, about five years ago now, showed that even with his ungainly (another way of saying uncoordinated) frame, he could contribute and his hit on Big Boy McEvoy was one of the best hip and shoulders I've seen. He was unlucky this year when in some great form he got injured against Richmond and I think his poor form in VFL finals this season was reflective of him already being told to shop around for next year.  

Trenners was always a team player and that's what excited us in his first two years but he always had pace issues - his sister is a marathoner after all. He's a great bloke and if he's interested in staying in Melbourne then I hope we offer him the Casey captaincy for next year. Maybe even try and lure Jack Grimes back to Casey and make them co-captains - now that would be a nice story!

White was a lovely bogan in black socks at training with a beautiful left boot but like Trenners, and so many players these days, not blessed with quite enough speed to make it. 

Hulett was one of the best kicks we've ever seen, but also struggled for pace and even more crucially for a forward, he didn't have a leap. He also is reflective of the old era when big power forwards were the rage - nowadays they have to have an explosive lead as well to have any chance. He looked the part in his first pre-season - many of us were beguiled, like Tubby Taylor, by his natural ball skills and strong physique. Clearly, along with our Weid choice, Taylor made a misjudgement of where bigs were going in the game - he's not the only recruiting officer to have erred on that one and his meal ticket still lives on his No.4 pick of 2015.

I am not sure of what is going on with Kennedy, but I suspect Adelaide are considering him and won't comment officially until after the season - quite understandable on their part if that's the case. 

There should be nothing but praise for these amazing gentlemen.  The fact they made it to AFL level to start with is a feather in their cap.  Jack and Jake did everything possible to realise their full potential and we should be extremely grateful.

I'm not trying to virtue signal but I believe perspective is needed to appreciate what they gave us and the MFC.

May we also get better from here as well.

Our senior list has definitely changed since the 2014 season....only 14 senior players from 2014 remain (plus Jetta, Mitch King and Harmes who were on the rookie list in 2014). We have seen 26 players depart the club in 4 years.

Dee wiz, we had a stinker of a list back then!

 

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Grimes was never the same after he broke his collarbone, he was far too skinny and weak after that point.

It's sad about Trengove because he went through a lot and seems like a genuinely great person, but even without foot the injuries and captaincy I'd doubt he'd be playing regular AFL football, he was always too slow.

Question - was he slow before his initial foot injury?  (I don't remember about his pace pre first injury, and I don't mean necessarily prior to its diagnosis).

7 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Not sure I agree Skuit with Spencer. Ten years on a list for 30-odd games. Paid probably 3 million bucks for those games. Pretty poor return on equity! 

Thing with Trenners is he seemed to lose pace in his second year. At the time I blamed excessive leg weights which they were all doing under Bailey. Not sure we'll ever know.

I think people really need to look at the context of games played Vs time at the club for Spencer with the context of the ruck position he plays:

1.  Ruckman normally take longer to develop;

2.  True ruckman are probably limited in opportunities more so than most other positions, particularly since limits to rotations has driven the trend for most teams to only play one ruckman per game (I don't see any Cox/Natanui combos going round these days);

3.  Beyond your primary ruck, most other ruckman on the list are probably considered as insurance for injury/unavailablity of the primary ruck (like any true insurance policy, our's found a loophole to avoid paying out when Gawn was injured this season!) and thus wouldn't nessasrily need/be expected to play many games per year - Jake averaged about 4-5 if you make allowance for a couple of years development up front.

Would like to know the league wide stats.

 

I'm actually sad to see the Spencil go.  Early in his career, he was a real liability with ball in hand (as was Nathan Jones), but I think he mostly tidyed that up in the end.  One thing that couldn't be questioned with Jake was his toughness and endevor.  He probably wasn't all that well endoured athleticly either and that somewhat probably held him back, but for a guy of his size, what do you expect.  The last few years, I thought  he was pretty close to making the grade at times.

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It's sad about Trengove because he went through a lot and seems like a genuinely great person, but even without foot the injuries and captaincy I'd doubt he'd be playing regular AFL football, he was always too slow.

That's just wrong, Trenners first 2 years were as good as if not better than Martin and $cully's. Talking to tiger friends at the time and we all agreed that Trenners was the most likely brownlow medalist among them, just had a lot most consistency (less flash) than the other 2. Had it not been for the foot injury he would have played over 150 games, and potentially still captain. His pace wasn't blistering but was more than adequate. 

41 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Question - was he slow before his initial foot injury?  (I don't remember about his pace pre first injury, and I don't mean necessarily prior to its diagnosis).

Yes.

24 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

That's just wrong, Trenners first 2 years were as good as if not better than Martin and $cully's. Talking to tiger friends at the time and we all agreed that Trenners was the most likely brownlow medalist among them, just had a lot most consistency (less flash) than the other 2. Had it not been for the foot injury he would have played over 150 games, and potentially still captain. His pace wasn't blistering but was more than adequate. 

He peaked in 2011, he was always too slow (I said it at the time).

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

And we will, but it won't cost you anything to stop for a moment and acknowledge a true champion.

He didn't have the accomplishments on the field that either we or he had hoped but if he doesn't personify all the great attributes of a champion I'll go hee.

We all knew it was coming. He knew it was coming. The time arrives.

We salute the fella and...indeed move on. Hope he always has the same soft spot for the mighty Dees as we do.

I think you will find that my post has been merged from another post about rehashing the Neeld stuff. 

In no way do I want to devalue Jacks contribution to the club. He has been the best of Club men and a courageous stalwart through a very difficult era. It has been very cruel how his career has ended prematurely.

well done Jack and all the best for your future. I notice on his tweets he lists himself as a Uni student so hopefully he future is assured.

And with that, the question has been definitively answered.

Was tanking worth it? The answer was no.

We would have gotten pick one anyway. Pick 2 was used on someone who was a quality person, a great trier and (before his foot injury) a solid footballer. But it goes to show that life doesn't always turn out the way you would like.

Our number one pick was used on a bloke who took one look at our rotten culture and bolted for the better cash on offer.

Don't get me started on the 'Why didn't we draft Dusty?' line. He would have been out of the league in 3 years had he been teamed up with Col and Beamer out on the tiles.

Team this up with a culture that devalued long term club servants and a boys' club admin where ego outstripped ability and you have the perfect storm. One that exacerbated the current cultural issues we currently have. One whose blowback took 4 years to clean up (and there is still plenty of mental weakness to clean out).

 

 

19 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Unfortunately that's the world of AFL.

Sad for Trengove, gave his all for the MFC and all the best to him in the future.

Yes as Neale Daniher said" Footy's a tough game" and he was talking from bitter experience which  parallels Jack Trengove's.

Before his injury Trengove was a fine footballer and worthy of his high draft pick. Most Demon supporters wished that he could have come back from his injuries and I am sorry it didn't work out as he is also a fine leader. Footy is also an emotional state.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, DeeWiz said:

Our senior list has definitely changed since the 2014 season....only 14 senior players from 2014 remain (plus Jetta, Mitch King and Harmes who were on the rookie list in 2014). We have seen 26 players depart the club in 4 years.

Dee wiz, we had a stinker of a list back then!

 

I think you will find that it was Max King on our list at that time and Mitch King was picked up in the 2015 draft.

7 hours ago, praha said:

Roos tried to trade Trengove. Would have been a steal. We didn't get much out of him after that attempt. Thanking him for his service but ultimately he should have been moved on long ago.

 A bit harsh it wasn't for his injury he would have made, it's bit hard to de list somebody when they're going through an injury like that,  he deserved to be on the list this year, the club had to give him a really good chance to see if he could make it back

Pleased to hang on to Garland. Maybe we should have delisted Oscar before he gets any worse.

My heart goes out to Trenners, but it's hard to wonder 'what if' we drafted Martin instead of Scully or Trengove. We would likely be playing finals right now. Sigh.

 

1 hour ago, the pearl said:

Pleased to hang on to Garland. Maybe we should have delisted Oscar before he gets any worse.

I think Oscar has been improving, all be it slowly, rather than getting worse.

Great man Trenners! He will find a place, blokes of that quality are hard to come by. I don't think his playing days are over, but I understand MFC's point of view. About Oscar... he is young. He has some stats that are impressive. His ball use by foot is pretty good... but he is a slow mover, and he doesn't invite physical contact! I'm prepared to wait and see if he can improve on his weaknesses!

Looks like Jack may continue in the AFL https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/dumped-demon-jack-trengove-definitely-wants-to-play-football-again-says-manager-adam-ramanauskas/news-story/bbaefd15e2753113635e4758e2014b44

If he wants to continue hope he gets gig.  Will be delighted to see him get another go and continue to play the game he loves.

37 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Looks like Jack may continue in the AFL https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/dumped-demon-jack-trengove-definitely-wants-to-play-football-again-says-manager-adam-ramanauskas/news-story/bbaefd15e2753113635e4758e2014b44

If he wants to continue hope he gets gig.  Will be delighted to see him get another go and continue to play the game he loves.

Let's hope that he remains a Demon and part of the leadership group at Casey. Surely we can retain him as part of the Demon family, albeit not on our AFL list or within our salary cap? He has a lot to offer the Casey Demons and I am sure that both his Casey and Melbourne teammates would love him to still be around when we achieve success!

5 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

 

Don't get me started on the 'Why didn't we draft Dusty' line. He would have been out of the league in 3 years had he been teamed up with Col and Beamer out on the tiles.

 

 

 

 

So true.  The club was total shambles at the time.  We would have driven Dustys career into the turf.  He dodged a massive bullet. 

A 'technical' question:  have these 4 been delisted, or just announced that they are going?  Ie, free agent, trade, etc still an option?.  (is there anything coming back)?

5 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

A 'technical' question:  have these 4 been delisted, or just announced that they are going?  Ie, free agent, trade, etc still an option?.  (is there anything coming back)?

Effectively delisted.  They will not be on the Club's next List Lodgement to the AFL.

The only way the club could get something is if waited for a trade or an FA move of Trengove or Spencer.

Importantly, by not waiting the club is doing the right thing by the players.  Their managers have maximum time to find them a club.   It is easier for other clubs to take them as Delisted Free Agents than negotiate a trade. 

 

Hope trenners gets another gig elsewhere (Gold Coast? No whispers, just looking for a list with holes) and if not would love a sentimental rookie spot to be given so he can lead at Casey much like this year, if he's looking to stay in Victoria. There's still room for this in footy, and the bloke is a champ. If he never plays another game he will still remain a favorite in my heart.  Love to see you in a pub one day, jack. I'll buy you a beer and remind you of what hope meant to me on dark days.