3 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The brilliant thing about this situation is if we don't get a good enough offer for Watts we simply don't trade him and he can use this experience as a much needed and final kick up the bum.

You sound like one of those clingy boyfriends that can't accept that she ain't coming back. But it's okay, she wasn't good for you anyway. And yes, JW is the girl in my example. 

To suggest JW for Zac Jones is just embarrassing. Jones is probably going to be an AA back pocket one day and breaks the lines and plays a hard brand of footy that would stand up in finals.

Let's just close the door on this botched number 1 pick and look forward to some guys that know how to tackle with intent and chase with intensity.  I'm excited about it! 

The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. The nail in the coffin was when we picked up weideman. Clearly with Hogan and Weidemen (with a 1st rounder) it demonstrated a clear understanding that JW was never going to amount to  more than a fringe player that can play the odd good game from time to time. 

 

18 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

You sound like one of those clingy boyfriends that can't accept that she ain't coming back. But it's okay, she wasn't good for you anyway. And yes, JW is the girl in my example. 

To suggest JW for Zac Jones is just embarrassing. Jones is probably going to be an AA back pocket one day and breaks the lines and plays a hard brand of footy that would stand up in finals.

Let's just close the door on this botched number 1 pick and look forward to some guys that know how to tackle with intent and chase with intensity.  I'm excited about it! 

The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. The nail in the coffin was when we picked up weideman. Clearly with Hogan and Weidemen (with a 1st rounder) it demonstrated a clear understanding that JW was never going to amount to  more than a fringe player that can play the odd good game from time to time. 

 

Let me get this straight, we pick up the Weed and to you that's an indication the club nailed Watts coffin, yet later in the season the club extends his contract by a further 3 years.

Brilliant!

 

7 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

Let me get this straight, we pick up the Weed and to you that's an indication the club nailed Watts coffin, yet later in the season the club extends his contract by a further 3 years.

Brilliant!

 

I don't read too much into contract stuff. Watts wouldn't be on much money, probably even cheaper because over 3 years so there's no harm in offering Watts 3. By the time Weideman develops no need for Watts. 

37 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

NO Connors said those things as he knows Gawn agrees with him.

look you can disagree with me, maybe my judgement is clouded because Watts is one of my favourite players who I think is unfairly judged and maybe others judgement is clouded as they think he is not good enough and have always wanted him out.  

To me this feels like trading out Junior MacDonald, a decision made for philosophical reasons which will hurt us on field next year. I think it’s a terrible idea. But if it happens and I am wrong I will be first to admit it. I just want what we all want, Demon success. 

Also im not comparing Jack to Martin as a player I’m comparing the way their clubs have treated them. I think it’s a fair comparison, but who knows what will happen and yes it’s pure hindsight.

I understand the angst, I think it's misplaced but I understand it.

The comparison between Martin & Watts I understand isn't as players but you need to look at the difference in their behaviour too. People assume this is the first time the club has ever admonished Watts for his behaviour. He's had 4 years since Roos and then Goodwin took over and is still making the same errors at 26 years of age. How long do they have to hold his hand for until they realise it's never gonna happen?

44 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

I’ve read it. Players are different these days, some need a firm hand others need to be looked after. They’re not all the same and a good coach won’t use a one size fits all approach. I think what has been shown is that Jack responds better to support and his performance reviews being kept out of the media ala Roos, he does not respond well to macho bravado ala Neeld. I hoped Simon would see this and try harder to get the best out of Jack. I have no doubt Longmire or Hinkley will. 

 all that aside all we have done is hurt his trade value, which if we actually want to trade him is not good management.

At the end of the day players still need to be held accountable to club and team standards though. If a player continuously breaches the clubs/teams confidence how do you expect them to react?

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

You sound like one of those clingy boyfriends that can't accept that she ain't coming back. But it's okay, she wasn't good for you anyway. And yes, JW is the girl in my example. 

To suggest JW for Zac Jones is just embarrassing. Jones is probably going to be an AA back pocket one day and breaks the lines and plays a hard brand of footy that would stand up in finals.

Let's just close the door on this botched number 1 pick and look forward to some guys that know how to tackle with intent and chase with intensity.  I'm excited about it! 

The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. The nail in the coffin was when we picked up weideman. Clearly with Hogan and Weidemen (with a 1st rounder) it demonstrated a clear understanding that JW was never going to amount to  more than a fringe player that can play the odd good game from time to time. 

 

Reading not your strong point? Let me spell it out for you.

I'm all for trading Watts, I'm just not for trading him away for peanuts when he has some currency.

Also, I was just passing on what I'd heard about Jones, I didn't "suggest" it.

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

On 10/6/2017 at 7:56 AM, No10 said:

I guess I'm one of those questioning Goodwin.

Firstly his record doesn't yet count, he has a young list of extremely talented players handed over from a highly respected coach. He wasn't handed a basket-case. Going backwards was out of the question.

More so, I don't see Goodwin 'taking a stand' is smart coaching. I agree with Roos: "you can't always harp on a players weakness, some players improve when you encourage their strengths".

Goodwin has his issues with Jack "not jumping at the ball" dropping him to develop his contested game. Jones is a contested machine and doesn't understand how it's not in Jack's instinct. But, again Roos, "you can't have a team of all Viney's".

Goodwin might become a great coach. Watts is gone. I suspect this will prove a "mistake" (Roos). I'm now interested to see if Goodwin learns his own lesson. Jack will be fine.

A few issues with this post.

"His record doesn't yet count" - we improved by 20% in Simon Goodwin's first year. The "extremely talented players" lost by over 100 points in Paul Roos' last game as coach. 

"You can't have a team of all Viney's", agreed, but you have to have the instinct to contest.

"I'm now interested to see if Goodwin learns his own lesson. Jack will be fine." - What lesson is that, exactly? And after 9 years of inconsistent performance, why will Jack be fine? I think that Jack is the one that needs to learn a lesson.

36 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

You sound like one of those............

Let's just close the door on this botched number 1 pick and look forward to some guys that know how to tackle with intent and chase with intensity.  I'm excited about it! 

The writing has been on the wall for a long time now.............
 

Just out of interest if you were in charge of the Watts deal is there any point - 3rd round pick for Watts, 4th round, 5th? - where you would say that we are better off keeping him? 

3 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

Thanks mate

i have zero Club connections and for one appreciate some inside info

Wowee it's going to be an interesting night

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I understand the angst, I think it's misplaced but I understand it.

The comparison between Martin & Watts I understand isn't as players but you need to look at the difference in their behaviour too. People assume this is the first time the club has ever admonished Watts for his behaviour. He's had 4 years since Roos and then Goodwin took over and is still making the same errors at 26 years of age. How long do they have to hold his hand for until they realise it's never gonna happen?

I see your point but I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think Jacks good performances and upside are worth preservering with and I also think the timing is bad as we don’t have any hard running outside link players with good skills to replace his role in the side. If it hurts us infield next year and helps another club, particularly if we get very little for him I don’t think it is worth it. The statement has been made give him a chance to respond, in our colours, would be my preference.

15 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

Good, so Jack is well aware that he has let the club down, and he is not being thrown out..

19 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

Can't wait to hear the defenders come at you for stating such a thing.

22 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

How would he get the opportunity?  I am not intending to fan any flames here but I assume he is unlikely to be in the awards. 

 

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

Can't wait to hear the defenders come at you for stating such a thing.

Jumbo won't be happy...

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

Can't wait to hear the defenders come at you for stating such a thing.

As a 'defender' I have respect for GNF who seems to be well informed.  This would be very bad by Watts if confirmed, though you have to ask why the club let him go - perhaps he promised to be good and wasn't.

But GNF's report is the only  report about this I have any faith in.  All the  'attackers' have done to date is just speculate repeatedly until it becomes 'fact' to them.

27 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

Why would he be making a speech? He's not getting an opportunity to speak, I call BS

8 hours ago, No10 said:

We'd be lucky to get 29 for him. Can't make him stay after the "explore options" message. While at the same time certainly not enhancing his trade value.

Yes, because no-one noticed that Jack got dropped both in pre-season and season.

When assessing trades, clubs are expected to ignore other clubs talking up their players. They'll do the same for clubs talking down their players (even if that's what's happened, which I don't see is the case anyway.)

1 hour ago, Grand New Flag said:

 

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

Sorry, I don't believe a word of this, especially the bolded part. He was only gone for a day - check the comments section of this Instagram post from that trip where he says he's only in Byron for 24 hours. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWMNC5OjgP_/?hl=en&taken-by=jackwatts4

 

10 minutes ago, sue said:

All the  'attackers' have done to date is just speculate repeatedly until it becomes 'fact' to them.

 

This is just ridiculous. No-one's speculating, people are just basing their opinons on a) what the club has done (e.g. dropping Watts in the pre-season) and b) what the club (Goodwin, Jones, Mahoney) have said. Those are facts.

There was also an earlier report in this thread of a Storm player commenting that the club were p*'d off with Jack because of the Byron trip - which you and many here chose to ignore. You pick and choose what to believe depending on whether or not it confirms your opinion.

2 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

Thought this, too.  Bit I was left with was (to paraphrase) - If he stays he knows exactly what is required of him.

Win win position for the club.

45 minutes ago, Grand New Flag said:

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  

 

 

After 9 years service, he at least deserves the opportunity to speak.  Again, to reiterate many of my earlier points regarding this matter.   Fu#$ you Goodwin. 

 

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

You sound like one of those clingy boyfriends that can't accept that she ain't coming back. But it's okay, she wasn't good for you anyway. And yes, JW is the girl in my example. 

To suggest JW for Zac Jones is just embarrassing. Jones is probably going to be an AA back pocket one day and breaks the lines and plays a hard brand of footy that would stand up in finals.

Let's just close the door on this botched number 1 pick and look forward to some guys that know how to tackle with intent and chase with intensity.  I'm excited about it! 

The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. The nail in the coffin was when we picked up weideman. Clearly with Hogan and Weidemen (with a 1st rounder) it demonstrated a clear understanding that JW was never going to amount to  more than a fringe player that can play the odd good game from time to time. 

 

And you will sound like a di^&head if he decides to stay.  You go on and be excited about tackling with intent and chasing with intensity.  How I miss Jordie McKenzie,  Daniel Nicholson, Terlich and Tapscott.  All very good chasers and tacklers those boys.  

5 minutes ago, bing181 said:

This is just ridiculous. No-one's speculating, people are just basing their opinons on a) what the club has done (e.g. dropping Watts in the pre-season) and b) what the club (Goodwin, Jones, Mahoney) have said. Those are facts.

There was also an earlier report in this thread of a Storm player commenting that the club were p*'d off with Jack because of the Byron trip - which you and many here chose to ignore. You pick and choose what to believe depending on whether or not it confirms your opinion.

I did pick and choose.  In case you didn't notice I chose GNF's report for the reasons I gave.  Didn't you notice his report put the boot into Watts? ?????????????????

I did note the second hand report about a storm player.  I just didn't credit the hearsay which has been rife on this topic.  GNF has a good track record of getting inside info by the standards around here.

As for your first paragraph, can't you see that is a circular argument.  Jack must have done X because he is being moved on.  Doesn't prove X happened, there may be other reasons for him being moved on as you mention.

 

9 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Win win position for the club.

Glad to hear you say that bing.  So if he stays we can expect you to not bag him until he shows he hasn't improved.

How many people on this forum actually know Jack Watts personally ? I don’t that’s for certain . How many people are deciding their opinion of him with absolutely know idea what he is like ! Just a wild guess here , I’m thinking everybody in the football department do know him quite well . I have really no opinion on this dividing issue because of the issue above ! 

Having said that , he doesn’t appear to me to be setting the world on fire as a professional sportsman after 9 years ! Sometimes brilliant and sometimes pretty darn ordinary! So frustrating to realize he could be anything , but,  has this fatal flaw  in his preparation!