45 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think they understand what a wildcard is or why it exists

All they need to do is create some fairness in the fixture. That's it. No need for 17-5, 18-5, wildcard weekends ad infinitum. Just have a rolling fixture alternating home and away each time you play an opponent. Either that or decide the double up games on the prior years ladder (so 1st has double ups against 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th & 16th).

This isn't about fairness, it's about marketing and promotion. The sooner the Dil [censored] off the better, he is FAR worse than Demetriou.

The sooner Dil is censored the better!

I have an idea. Gil to play off against the mail-room boy for a spot in the executive. 

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Has Gill the Dill thought how to explain how a team that has won 2 or 3 or 4 more matches during the season can get bumped out of the finals in a single game against a lower side?

 

Doesn't have to - it happened to Richmond in 2013 when they finished 5th with 15 wins and lost to Carlton, 9th with 11 wins (and then got promoted into the finals thanks to Essendrug's penalty).

 

Not sure if I'm the only one, but I love Wild Card. I do happen to be a little bit of an NFL fan. Demons first and all that, but have fallen in love with the overseas game as well. The AFL is slowly and gently bringing in some of the best things about the USA sports under everyone's noses. WHile many won't agree, I'm with them on this one and many others. We have a great resource here in that we have another country with a passionately followed indigenous game that governs itself. Their fans are every bit as obsessive as ours, and they've gone through many mistakes to make it better for the fans and players. We have this awesome situation where we can pick and choose the things they did well, and benefit from all their harsh lessons.

The wild card week the AFL is proposing isn't strictly speaking a Wild Card. My understanding of the Wild Card is more like the NFL version. You earn the right to BE a Wild Card if you don't win your division, but win enough games to beat all the other second placed sides in other divisions. The "Wild Card" games are really just the first weeks of playoffs... and that's what the AFL is proposing. It's essentially just more finals... The GP might look at them as poorer quality finals, but for me, I think they're ok. Everyone knows the rules, so I doubt anyone will whinge if they come 8th and get bundled out by the team in 9th. Anyone only just scraping into 8th will get a home final anyway, And usually if you get there, it's only just... by a game or percentage.

I think it's a great thing, and I've been hoping they expanded it for ages. So many USA things have been brought in for the betterment of the game. I see this as another good one. I don't think it hurts the tradition or fabric of the game either. Finals formats have been changing since the game started.

If we ever got to the point that we had 25 clubs in the country, I'd love to see Divisions brought in too. It works fantastically in the USA, and I'm confident it would be embraced here too.

I love the NFL too but this is a terrible idea. Wildcards work there due to the divisional format, we have a single ladder so no need for wildcard. They also only have 12/32 teams making playoffs. 10/18 teams in finals is ridiculous. Why not just have all 18 teams play some extended knock out finals competition and be done with the home and away season altogether?

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think they understand what a wildcard is or why it exists

All they need to do is create some fairness in the fixture. That's it. No need for 17-5, 18-5, wildcard weekends ad infinitum. Just have a rolling fixture alternating home and away each time you play an opponent. Either that or decide the double up games on the prior years ladder (so 1st has double ups against 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th & 16th).

This isn't about fairness, it's about marketing and promotion. The sooner the Dil [censored] off the better, he is FAR worse than Demetriou.

This is solely about money.

This wild card rubbish does nothing at all to make the fixture fairer or bring meaning to the later part of the year. If anything, it diminishes the meaning of the home and away season even more by effectively extending finals to the top 10.

The greatest irony is that this is shaping up to be the most even season in decades and we could well find ourselves with Rounds 20-23 containing a stack of critical games for qualifying for finals. 

The finals system we currently have is actually really good. The fixture is flawed but it's never going to improve. The game is flourishing, it should be left alone for 2-3 years at a minimum to see how we go in the post-expansion, post-Hawthorn/Sydney dominance era, see how it travels. But McLachlan and the AFL are obsessed with money, obsessed with commercialism and obsessed with copying American sports, so that's just not going to happen.

1 hour ago, CanberraDemon said:

Doesn't have to - it happened to Richmond in 2013 when they finished 5th with 15 wins and lost to Carlton, 9th with 11 wins (and then got promoted into the finals thanks to Essendrug's penalty).

 

That was fair though; Carlton was the 8th best team that didn’t cheat with drugs.

Hate it. Stop [censored] with the rules.

I'm not conservative when it comes to most things, but when my football is involved I am.

The rules for the 'Final 8' changed when we introduced the 17th and 18th club...

This year looks like the year that a team that goes 13 and 9 might miss the finals on percentage.

With the competition becoming more even and the fact that there are 12+ teams that could beat each other on a given day, the league has to adjust back to the finals including more than 8 aspirants.

Don't think this 7 v 13 is a great idea but having a wildcard for the finals is with some merit.

Now getting the bottom 6 to give a flying F about the last few games is a different story but also with some merit.

12 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

So many USA things have been brought in for the betterment of the game.

Name them...

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0131857/

One of my all time fav movies.

Stop changing the f*cking game!

It would be stupid for a team that's been rubbish nearly all year to fire up for 2-3 weeks and be given a token entry into finals ahead of a team that earnt it by playing better all year. 

Stop changing the game. The rules changes for the most part make it worse every year. The game is becoming softer and more of the rules are now open to interpretation. The umpires have more effect on games than they should because of this. We don't need wildcards added to f things up even more!

I thought 5-8 was the wildcard.

Wish it would come in this year, in the event we finish 9th or 10th.

Why not broaden this out? For example, we could have all 18 teams play each other over say, 6 months or so, then take the leading 8 to play off in a finals round. 

31 minutes ago, rjay said:

Name them...

National draft and salary cap for starters

There are three reasons why I don't support the "wildcard idea".

Firstly, forget the name "wildcard". It is just another way of extending the finals series to 10 teams. In an 18 team competition it is patently ridiculous that more than half the teams can end up playing in the finals. If the team is not good enough to finish in the top half after 22 rounds it shouldn't be given that opportunity.  (Disclosure: I don't even like the idea of a final 8. Six teams - one-third of the competition - in finals is enough.)

Secondly, while I know last year was an aberration, the Grand Final is almost always played by teams who finished in the top four positions. It is already questionable whether there is any value in the first week of the finals with generally poor attendances because the games are effectively meaningless as the winners of the elimination final more often than not are beaten in the second week. Teams 7 to 10 would be just additional cannon fodder for the higher placed teams effectively diminishing the quality of finals football.

Thirdly should a team playing the so-called "wildcard" rounds make it through to the Preliminary or even Grand Final, they are more likely to have been exhausted by the process which would increase the likelihood of those games being blowouts and poor examples of what should be the best games of the year.  

The AFL should just have a floating fixture for the last round and match up 8v9, 7v10, 4v5, 3v6. 17v18 (kreuzer cup anyone). That way if 8th and 9th are separated by a game or less they are effectively playing off for a spot in the 8, but if like last year 7th is on 15 wins and 10th is on 10 it wont effect 7th playing in finals. Otherwise the final 8 is effectively the final 10.

13 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

So many USA things have been brought in for the betterment of the game.

 

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Name them...

 

51 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

National draft and salary cap for starters

Sorry 'Gonzo', not wanting to be difficult but I asked 'Dappa' this one on the back of his gushing acceptance of things USA.

The draft & cap have been great initiatives, funnily enough the cap was an first used in the EPL in 1901, they gave it away in 1961...

I don't think it follows that all things USA are going to be for the betterment of the game but am interested in what these "so many things" are.

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Stop changing the f*cking game!

It would be stupid for a team that's been rubbish nearly all year to fire up for 2-3 weeks and be given a token entry into finals ahead of a team that earnt it by playing better all year. 

Stop changing the game. The rules changes for the most part make it worse every year. The game is becoming softer and more of the rules are now open to interpretation. The umpires have more effect on games than they should because of this. We don't need wildcards added to f things up even more!

Yep, trust a team coming from 10th to make it into the finals because an umpire awards some dumb deliberate out of bounds in the final minutes of the game. You would just about lose your nut if that happened to Melbourne, and you just know it will! 

Actually, this is a better model than the present final systems where the top 4 sides are penalised with two weeks off with in a month leading up to the grand final (thanks to the stupid bye before the finals), should they play well.  It would have been so much harder for the the Bulldogs to win the premiership last year under the proposed final 10 (wildcard) setup; and so it should be - they finished 8th. The finals should at least reward the top 4 or 6 teams, not penalise them.    

So basically Gill wants a top 10

F$&@k off. 

Stop diluting the game for more TV $$$'s

you [censored]

8 minutes ago, Ungarie boy said:

Actually, this is a better model than the present final systems where the top 4 sides are penalised with two weeks off with in a month leading up to the grand final (thanks to the stupid bye before the finals), should they play well.  It would have been so much harder for the the Bulldogs to win the premiership last year under the proposed final 10 (wildcard) setup; and so it should be - they finished 8th. The finals should at least reward the top 4 or 6 teams, not penalise them.    

Yes, agree...but it should not make it impossible for the other teams to win which is what a wildcard system would do.

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

Yes, agree...but it should not make it impossible for the other teams to win which is what a wildcard system would do.

But it is possible for 7-8 to win a flag now. 

Win 4 straight. 

What else needs to happen. 

9-10 were not good enough during the season, be it wins or %

this is ALL TV driven

No