POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 7

[Biffen 12,943]

Tom Mac should be concentrating on being the only man up in the contest or intercept marking.

Rawlings needs to fix the 4 men up and then knock each other over stunts.

TMc.is a far better handballer on the run than he is a kicker of the ball.

He should be dishing off to a runner every time he marks because he has limited peripheral vision.

Still a good player is our TMac and is always one of the first picked but we are starting to see that Frosty is even more talented than him which is the big positive from this loss.

The other was the return of Form from Viney.

Who was on Obrien FFS?

He looked like the new Dermie.

Or we made him look good and he is actually a hack.As we do.

I think people are harsh on JKH.

He wasn't too bad and will pick up the pace if he stays in but he is a very small dude and will need to work harder than everyone else to survive in the modern game.

Overall our team was undersized but we are limited by injury.

I'm not expecting much from this season but development and a good run of form at the end of the year.

Without any rucks ,we are in for some pain.

[censored] it 

[loges 6,767]

There's no doubt we are chokers. When you're in a position to win games yet find a way to lose each time then you've choked.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

"At least it wasn't a final." I have said this four times this year after the game and every time it has bloody hurt.

Gawn's loss has really cost us this year and has been compounded by Spencer getting injured. We are going to need to win games against the better sides to make the eight now because we have let too many easy ones slip.

We lost because our kicking was so poor in the first half, particularly the first quarter. Sure we overused the handball, but I think this was mostly due to not being able to maintain possession when we were out. I didn't think it was our lack of pressure either. It was our lack of foot skill.

We also were poor in the air. Hawthorn either took contested marks or we put to many men flying up at the contest.

[loges 6,767]

21 hours ago, Scoop Junior said:

The most annoying thing is how predictable it all is.

Come out half-hearted against an out-of-form side, allow them early goals to get their confidence and belief going and find ourselves well behind early in the game. Then turn it on when hope seems gone, come roaring back into the match but fail to finish the job and lose a nailbiter.

I reckon I've seen this movie 20 times. I hated it the first time and I hated it today. We keep coming back for more but the script doesn't change.

Over and over and over again we play teams near the bottom who are down on confidence and we fail to come out switched on from the outset. I would love to be surprised for once and to see us land some big blows early against these sides but it doesn't happen. We lost to drug-banned Essendon last year but learned nothing and we continue to fail to show up when expected to win.

There are some real attitude problems that we just cannot, at the moment, get over. We've improved our list, our talent, our skill (not there yet but better), our hardness, etc. But we really are miles off it mentally. I said the same thing after the Freo game when we failed to get men back in the last few minutes. Great teams find a way to win, we simply find ways to lose. We are just so good at it. If the aim in football was to extract defeat from winnable positions we'd be the reigning triple Premiers.

And it's no surprise our best quarter was the third. The pressure was off as there was no expectation to win being 6 goals down. Then once again as soon as we drew level in the last and the expectation was we would run over them, we fail to go on with it.

I'm sick of the youth excuse. We had enough senior players out there today to lead the way. They've had these lessons before and they've learned nothing.

I'm quite happy with our physical development so far this year but mentally we are really falling well short of the mark. We need to find some answers.

Well summed up, the problem has to be mainly in the head

[The heart beats true 18,123]

2 hours ago, america de cali said:

This is a team psychology problem caused by decades of underachieving and damaged leadership. We have a top 2 team here that needs to shed its demons to progress.

Someone needs to explain the psychological impact of the passed on the current for a young football team to me. I think leadership examples (from the passed 5-6 years) are one potential example as I can understand how that could impact, but otherwise I just don't buy it. If you asked Jayden Hunt or Clayton Oliver the name of 10 Melbourne players from the 90's they'd struggle. 

The players don't buy into anything about a culture except the one they create. Last years premiers proved that.

[dazzledavey36 54,944]

Jay Clark @ClarkyHeraldSun

Reality check on Melbourne. One of the four youngest teams every week. Winning more quarters than not. I'm happily buying their stock.

[What 18,810]

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Jay Clark @ClarkyHeraldSun

Reality check on Melbourne. One of the four youngest teams every week. Winning more quarters than not. I'm happily buying their stock.

 

Common sense there.  Easy to forget our coaches career is just 7 games old, too. And we are missing our superstar ruckman.  

We are going to be fine.  As I said a few weeks ago it will be a frustrating and at times exhilarating season.

No idea if that means finals or not, though.

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Petraccattack

[Stinga2 194]

19 minutes ago, loges said:

Well summed up, the problem has to be mainly in the head

I thought that commando camp fixed this

[xarronn 380]

I noticed that the Hawks were again using a tactic that they were finally penalised for late last year. That was having a man move up close to the man on the mark and block him when the player with the ball played on. I didn't think that was allowed and if it is, why the hell aren't we doing it. The Hawks were a bit more subtle this year than they were last year, but it sure pizzed me off seeing them take that advantage yesterday.

[Young Blood 2,620]

23 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Common sense there.  Easy to forget our coaches career is just 7 games old, too. And we are missing our superstar ruckman.  

We are going to be fine.  As I said a few weeks ago it will be a frustrating and at times exhilarating season.

No idea if that means finals or not, though.

 

Agreed!! Compared to last year we weren't even close to how competitive we have been this year. Playing some daring football. There have been mistakes and the young side has lacked composure to finish games. Gotta be a little bit patient.

Lets forget about finals now and see if we can put in four quarters of consistent football.

[buck_nekkid 5,861]

Last year we prayed for an 'honourable loss'.  We are far more competitive, and exciting - in a year that is a tipsters nightmare (and seems to be very even).  I think with the crazy speed of the game, many teams will run their tanks dry at different stages, and results will be up and down.

we have lost a few we shoulda, coulda, woulda.... we have lost our AA player ( name a team that can manage that) and their only backup.  We field a bunch of kids, with a new system, and some obvious development need.

i hated the losses, but I reckon we are heading in the right direction.  When this clicks, I'm going to so pleased I stuck fat.  I don't think we are mentally damaged.  I think the team needs a kick up the tailpipe and should be made to watch that first half.  We need to draw lines in the sand around effort.  Who knows how we will go against the Crows.  I hope we play our systems, our way, and we are exciting to watch and support.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

22 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

For anyone able to watch a replay, at one point (can't remember which quarter) the Hawks had the ball on the camera side of the ground, right in front of the interchange gates. They made an interchange where the incoming player entered the field of play outside of the gates, stealing several metres on his opposite number. He then received the ball in the clear and this led to a Hawks goal.

My question, should this have been an instant free kick and 50 metre penalty? Or is this normal? My understanding is all players had to exit/enter through the gates, and if not there would be a free kick plus 50.

Yep I noticed that when I was watching yesterday, he definitely stepped outside the paint. I thought there was an interchange steward watching all this, how can they miss something so blatant?

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yep I noticed that when I was watching yesterday, he definitely stepped outside the paint. I thought there was an interchange steward watching all this, how can they miss something so blatant?

That's what I was thinking, don't they have one very specific job to do? I'd love to see a replay to identify exactly what impact it had on the play, but don't have access to any replay.

#freekickhawthorn is all I can think of.

[Adam The God 30,259]

2 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

It was more than that.....Oliver was on Mitchell( I think it was) but was on the wrong side, leaving Mitchell and Burgoyne together, with the Demon players on their outside.  Guess where McEvoy tapped it?  One of them was going to get it and the other already in position to block. 

Just poor positioning by the Melbourne players to leave such an unguarded gap, and at such a critical point in the match.

As I've said before, we also press too much in the midfield and we get done over the back. Our positioning in the midfield at times on Sunday though was putrid. This is one definite example.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

12 hours ago, JV7 said:

Well what is it then ? Are the likes of Petracca, Hunt, Hogan, Oliver, Salem, Frost not up to it ? Goodwins not up to it ? Our older heads in Vince, Jones, Lewis, McDonald aren't up to it ? Why haven't we won these winnable games ? 

My opinion is we wont be a good side until the younger players I mentioned added to Stretch, Kent, Viney, Brayshaw, ANB are the ones driving the club once they all reach 80+ games and it's Not Vince, Jones, Lewis

We've lost 2 games by less than a kick, one game after being unable to hit the side of a barn and another after leading all game and being overrun in the last with injuries taking a toll.

Explain how each of these games was unwinnable. 

[beelzebub 23,376]

1 hour ago, xarronn said:

I noticed that the Hawks were again using a tactic that they were finally penalised for late last year. That was having a man move up close to the man on the mark and block him when the player with the ball played on. I didn't think that was allowed and if it is, why the hell aren't we doing it. The Hawks were a bit more subtle this year than they were last year, but it sure pizzed me off seeing them take that advantage yesterday.

There at least two occasions I observed where the Melb player guarding the mark was literally pushed away just after the hawk kicked. Once literally in the back. Gob smacked no free given.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

11 hours ago, Luther said:

Not actually a fact until it's mathematically impossible.

Yep, I was gonna tell him it's not a fact it's an assertion but the nuance would probably be lost on him 

[beelzebub 23,376]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We've lost 2 games by less than a kick, one game after being unable to hit the side of a barn and another after leading all game and being overrun in the last with injuries taking a toll.

Explain how each of these games was unwinnable. 

A psych might suggest they were indeed unwinnable as the trailing team hadn't the mental capacity/willpower to do so.

Now that is very unsavoury and unlikely to command curry.

It's also probably the truth.

[bing181 9,238]

8 hours ago, ProDee said:

I didn't mind Weideman early days, or the retention of Melksham, but for the life of me I question Kennedy-Harris and Bugg getting games ahead of Harmes, Stretch, Kent and even what Neal-Bullen was showing in the main. 

Re Stretch, suspect he was underperforming and dropped/rested because he was a bit cooked. He's still young, not all that big, and it's a physically demanding style that we're playing.

Of course, I could be well wide of the mark.

Edited May 8, 2017 by bing181

[Adam The God 30,259]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

There at least two occasions I observed where the Melb player guarding the mark was literally pushed away just after the hawk kicked. Once literally in the back. Gob smacked no free given.

Gave me the shits we kept letting it happen. The only time it didn't work out for Hawthorn was when they turned it over, but inexplicably, the ball was called back and they were allowed another go at it. I wanted to punch something.

[monoccular 17,430]

On 07/05/2017 at 9:52 PM, Nascent said:

Out: Bugg and JKH

In: Melksham and ANB

Not super inspiring changes but ANB is much better at playing the forward role JKH is attempting to do. Melksham best on for Casey and I prefer him over bugg anyway.

Not sure Kent has done enough level and although I wouldn't mind stretch in I'm not too sure who makes way for him. Three unforced changes seems too many regardless for team stability.

Milkshake suspended in VFL so no comeback there, thanks

On 07/05/2017 at 10:03 PM, Jaded said:

How, after all these years, the letdowns, the heartaches, the coaching changes, and list changes... how can this group of players still come out with a terrible attitude and not give enough, is absolutely beyond me.

We have everything to play for, yet we didn't turn up for the majority of the game. 

I've been OK with some of our losses, especially when we lost players during the game. Today Hawks were a man down, and we still lost. I felt like I was back in 2013 watching players not giving a damn, not chasing, not sticking tackles, not manning up... basic [censored] that you think professional footballers with a desire to win would be proficient at doing.

Sometimes it feels like this ride through hell will never end, and sometimes you see glimpses and you think "one day we'll be great", but that one day never comes. That light at the end of the tunnel feels like an oncoming train!

I can remember ND saying that way back when he was coaching and every coach since.

Serioisly, how can well paid full time professional footballers ever turn up "not switched on" or "not ready to play"??

Any who ever turn up "not ready to play" should be demoted for several weeks and replaced by anyone who "is ready to play "!

4 hours ago, loges said:

There's no doubt we are chokers. When you're in a position to win games yet find a way to lose each time then you've choked.

To use a golfing similie, we have a Normanic capacity to choke. 

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

I thought the writing was on the wall the week before when we didn't bury the druggos when we could've. It was like we took the foot off the pedal, happy to scrape through. We're lacking a killer instinct and you can't win finals without that.

We may have a good culture, allegedly, however we certainly don't have a kill or be killed mindset.

[Willmoy1947 4,089]

Umpires......

Can't bounce, can't throw straight over shoulder, can't see when ball out of bounce, can't hear abuse, and anyway don't take notice, only from someone they don't like.

They are so intelligent too.

Like teachers they have pets, one in particular from St Kilda and another from Richmond. Must go to same church or something. You have got to give them credit though, they look nice and clean usually. And a book rolls on......  

[Skuit 10,031]

4 hours ago, xarronn said:

I noticed that the Hawks were again using a tactic that they were finally penalised for late last year. That was having a man move up close to the man on the mark and block him when the player with the ball played on. I didn't think that was allowed and if it is, why the hell aren't we doing it. The Hawks were a bit more subtle this year than they were last year, but it sure pizzed me off seeing them take that advantage yesterday.

N. Jones was aware of it. There was a moment on the HB flank in the last where he pushed up to the mark to stand alongside the blocker.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

9 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Umpires......

Can't bounce, can't throw straight over shoulder, can't see when ball out of bounce, can't hear abuse, and anyway don't take notice, only from someone they don't like.

They are so intelligent too.

Like teachers they have pets, one in particular from St Kilda and another from Richmond. Must go to same church or something. You have got to give them credit though, they look nice and clean usually. And a book rolls on......  

They really don't like the bouncing do they. How long does it take them to get set after a goal, rubbing the ball on the ground, their hands on their shorts, flattening out the centre of the square. It's getting a bit ridiculous and I'm sure they'll eventually get their way and the bounce will disappear from the game. How about just do your flamin job peanut, or find another.