POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 5

[CHF 2,696]

I was disappointed with the result but not with the overall team effort put in by the players in the face of having two talls missing for a majority of the match. I was much more disappointed by the last two weeks than I was tonight.

Very good games from Hibberd, Hunt and Oliver. 

With the injuries we have I can see that this may be a long season of what may have been.

[Macca 16,661]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

Sounds like Bailey's game plan...

We are too easy to score against, maybe part of the reason is we are not putting enough scoreboard pressure on when we have the ascendancy with inside 50's...

The forward line is not functioning well and the backline leaks like a sieve...

If we were finishing better with more poise, the issues that you have highlighted would be of a lesser nature.

Goodwin's sample size is far too small rjay - Goodwin is getting the team to tick a number of boxes.  Under Neeld & Bailey, those boxes were never really ticked (effort, energy, application, attack on the ball & endeavour)

I'm convinced that if Gawn hadn't have gone down, we'd be 5 & 0 and we'd be hailing Goodwin as a super-coach.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Macca

[frankie_d 1,467]

Back in the gloomy days, we all cried out for a contest - we drafted stick figures, we got bullied and we were sh$t. None of those things are true now - we're tough and relentless.

I remember when the sainted PJ, shortly after starting to save the club, was asked if we needed a premiership coach - his answer was "No, but we need a very good one". I still that that's (obviously) true - we don't have a tradition of hardness and win-at-all-costs over the last decade - Roos was a very good coach, and toughened us up. I'm hoping like crazy that Goodwin is a "very good coach", too - talent (we've got tons) isn't enough.

Edited April 24, 2017 by frankie_d
spelling

[Dr. Gonzo 23,880]

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

We lost because of injuries. Plain and simple.

And dont tell me injuries are no excuse, cos they [censored] are.

Also Richmond are still a bunch of pretenders.

Injuries and selection. Kent instead of JKH and Pedersen instead of Smith and we win.

[Steve Lattimer 29]

If we have no ruckman moving forward then lets play the tallest player we have that can also play midfield.

Nasher will probably delete this post because he doesn't seem to like any new ideas in a discussion forum which is strange.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Steve Lattimer

[Dr. Gonzo 23,880]

2 hours ago, Danelska said:

Petracca is not the messiah, I am siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick to death of people vaunting his 'coming of age' - on this forum, for eff's sake stop it. he may jag 3-4 goals twice a year , aside from that he will spot up 5 players a game - he's a good player, will be a very good one, he aint no selwood, and he aint no hanneberry.   *****happily proven wrong.

 

He will be very serviceable - and an enigma...

He was on one leg the whole night mate, give the kid a break.

[rjay 24,677]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

If we were finishing better with more poise, the issues that you have highlighted would be of a lesser nature.

Goodwin's sample size is far too small rjay - Goodwin is getting the team to tick a number of boxes.  Under Neeld & Bailey, those boxes were never really ticked (effort, energy, application, attack on the ball & endeavour)

I'm convinced that if Gawn hadn't of gone down we'd be 5 & 0 and we'd be hailing Goodwin as a super-coach.

Gawn is a huge loss 'Macca', no doubt about that.

My concern is that we are killing it in inside 50's but not getting the score on the board and then when the oppo's get the ball out their conversion for inside 50's against us is way too high.

Think the first Q tonight we had well into the teens of inside 50's for 3.4, they had around 4 entries for 3.1. We're getting scored against too easily.

Some part of the game plan, talent or a mix of both is not working.

[bing181 9,113]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Injuries and selection. Kent instead of JKH and Pedersen instead of Smith and we win.

JKH laid more tackles in a half of footy than Kent has laid all year.

[bing181 9,113]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Some part of the game plan, talent or a mix of both is not working.

Having some consistency in team selection in the forward line would be a start. Have we had the same forward 6 for any consecutive games this year? Don't think so.

[Pates 9,625]

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

JKH laid more tackles in a half of footy than Kent has laid all year.

I actually thought JKH didn't disgrace himself, for me he earned another go on the merry go round. 

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

I've been alive for 34 seasons.

We've won more games than we've lost only 12 of those seasons. 

We're 299 wins 457 losses during my lifetime. 

I'm running out of patience big time.

Aaaahhhh

Felt good letting that out . . . Carry on

[Demon Jack 6,763]

Well, I've had plenty of time to reflect on the game after the long, misrable and wet journey home. 

You know what? I feel abnormally calm considering the result. 

As much as I hate blaming injuries for losses, it cannot be denied that the losses of Smith and particularly Spencer hurt us significantly as the game progressed. It seemed like other players such as Petracca, Viney and at one stage Hunt also shared some time on the bench as well due to their respective niggles. It was inevitable, but we clearly ran out of puff at the end after running our guts out in a pretty impressive third quarter. It always seems that during every season, there is one team that is hit hard with injuries. Obviously, it seems that we've picked the short straw this time around. I don't think anyone predicted that we'd have both our key ruckmen on the sidelines after round five. 

On the topic of ruckmen, I can't help but feel incredibly proud of Jack Watts. It was by no means his biggest game, but he continues to stand up when he is needed. In this case, we had to call on him to ruck when Spencer went down. For most of the third quarter, I actually think he had an edge on Nankervis that helped us gain control of the game for a while. Understandly like the majority if the team, he ran out of gas in the last quarter and couldn't compete against the bigger body of Nankervis.

It would also be a crime to not mention that Hibberd was also outstanding. 18 months out of the game? No problem! I actually had to pinch myself to convince myself I wasn't dreaming when I saw a Melbourne half-back hit a target 40 metres away. 

Chin up boys. Keep fighting like you did tonight and the results will come.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Demon Jack
Typo

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Hibberd was excellent. All things considered I thought he was our best player 

[Demon Dynasty 17,108]

2 hours ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Arguably the most over-hyped "$1m a year" player ever. Always wants the one over the back where he can just lean into his opponent and protect the drop. Very few strings to his bow. 

Q4 Garlett streaming toward the pocket and he wants it over the back? Get on your bike and lead at the kicker Jesse! Garlett is not kicking it 60m in the 4th when we've been 2-3 players short all night!

And i blamed Jeffy at the time lol...Spot on WJ

[Watts the matter 1,235]

12 minutes ago, bing181 said:

JKH laid more tackles in a half of footy than Kent has laid all year.

Because he loses the initial contest that Kent would have won. How many goals did he kick or set up?

[Pates 9,625]

6 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

And i blamed Jeffy at the time lol...Spot on WJ

In fairness to Jessie, a few minutes beforehand we were streaming towards goal in a very similar manner and Hogan lead right out in front but was completely ignored. And earlier in the night Hogan again lead hard back and forward and had clear space but was ignored. 

I do have this niggling feeling he's a bit petulant when he doesn't get his own way. He seems to play for a lot of frees as well. 

For someone who kicked 3 goals tonight, Jessie was off his game. 

[Macca 16,661]

16 minutes ago, rjay said:

Gawn is a huge loss 'Macca', no doubt about that.

My concern is that we are killing it in inside 50's but not getting the score on the board and then when the oppo's get the ball out their conversion for inside 50's against us is way too high.

Think the first Q tonight we had well into the teens of inside 50's for 3.4, they had around 4 entries for 3.1. We're getting scored against too easily.

Some part of the game plan, talent or a mix of both is not working.

And the other teams have wised up to our improved play and clearance work and are flooding our forward line ... we often contribute to the problem by not being direct enough. 

Hogan really needs to be playing at CHF but then we're left a bit short at deep forward ... this is why I don't want Watts out of the forward line too often.  We know he works well with Hogan but he's been otherwise used in the ruck (for one reason or another)

Hogan straightens us up when he plays deep forward but he straightens us up even more so when out at CHF.  We'd have been hoping for more output from Weideman

[Skuit 10,002]

We've been playing with a super-charged level of intensity at times this year (the most I've ever seen from the MFC). If our rotations are hit we are going to struggle late in matches.

[What 18,810]

Check out this loser celebrating like they won the Grand Final, when in reality they struggled to beat a team two men short on the bench.

Richmond will never amount to anything. 

 

 

[Adam The God 29,635]

THE POSITIVES OVERSHADOW THE ERRORS

I thought I'd be livid if we lost to Richmond, but for the second time in three weeks, I left the ground feeling extremely optimistic about our future. Yes, we over possessed. Yes, we used the footy poorly going inside 50. Yes, we made stupid errors. eg. Harmes in second term kicking it on the full when he should have just taken it over the line. eg. ANB's brainfade on the half time break that cost us a goal. eg. Vince kicking it on the full in the third when he should have simply taken it over the line. Yes, we lost to a bunch of pretenders. But...

Oliver is already a top 10 midfielder in the comp. He is insanely good and is statically top 10 in all the key categories. And 19 years old. And has played less than 20 games. Get excited if you're not already.

Hibberd's return was superb.

Tom McDonald played his best game since early 2016.

Frost was terrific.

Jetta was his usual solid self.

Hunt was electrifying and could be anything.

We had 25+ inside 50 tackles - that's what our coaching staff want.

And as many have already said, they were always going to run over us with two down. We win it with 22 v 22. Almost no doubt.

In the last, we were sitting near the interchange bench and Harmes wanted to come off, so did Jones, but only Oliver could come off due to rotation limits. So our mids, Jones and Viney in particular, were out on their feet in the last and we just couldn't run.

Were it not for the injuries, this very young side would have easily accounted for a supposed top 4 team.

As I said last week, at some stage this year, our team is going to click and it's going to be glorious. We may leave it too late for a finals tilt, but there's still a long way to go this season. I still think we'll get our 12+ wins and I'm looking for Lewis to pay us back for the last 3 weeks, by pulling us over the line in a few games this year. It's gonna happen.

Our best can match it with just about anyone, but luck hasn't gone our way this year. But it always turns your way eventually and we're doing enough right now for it to swing our way in time. For this reason, I was glad to hear Goody praise our boy's efforts tonight, given it was 20 v 22 out there.

THE FUTURE & OUR IMMEDIATE SHORT-TERM

When Oliver, Petracca and Salem build their tanks, watch out. We are going to have a seriously good midfield trio there.

But I still worry about Bernie, who goes to ground too easily like a veteran - he reminds me of Luke Hodge in that respect.

I also worry about our midfield short term with Viney clearly still hampered by his hip. Hopefully Lewis' inclusion can provide us with a bit of depth there, as well as leadership in trying times.

To me, it's obvious that we still lack one other game breaking midfielder. Tyson and Viney are good meat and potatoes footballers and may reach A grade status one day, but at this stage in their development, they both lack that little bit of class. I'm not going to write them off though, as I think both have a much higher ceiling that they're not reaching at the moment.

Both played 74% TOG this week, which I find interesting, given how out on his feet Jones looked at 88% TOG.

The other thing that needs to improve is our midfield's two-way-running. We let Richmond score goals way too easily out the back (particularly early on), which was reminiscent of how easily we let Geelong score too. If we can tidy this up (and maybe this only happens with experience and kms in the legs), I think we'll simply dominant contests.

It'll be interesting to see whether our midfield organisation improves when Lewis comes back in next week too.

THE RUCK CHALLENGE (RATHER THAN PROBLEM)

With Spencer going down too, I'm now strangely excited by the challenge we have in front of us in a season we were never going to challenge for the flag. Without our two key rucks, our depth is thoroughly tested. Our game style must develop alternatives and we get to see what we look like when things aren't going our way the whole time on a Gawn-supplied silver platter. 

We won't then know ourselves when we finally have a fit and firing Max Gawn dominating the hit outs and it'll also give us a plan B for the day when either Max is out or he is being beaten in the ruck. It is the perfect baptism of fire for our mids and whoever has to step up in place of Gawn and Spencer, but all part of the journey that is our continuing development.

As I side note, I didn't want to write it on here, but I knew Jake would go down with an injury sometime during the 12 Gawn-less games. Was thinking it'd be last week.

OUR DEFENCE

I think Frost may well be the answer to our second KPD post, alongside Tommy. They were both terrific in tandem tonight, although their awareness at times, particularly Frost's, is still left a bit wanting - that easy Riewoldt goal out the back in the second quarter, is a prime example.

However, we now have real speed and offence off half back. Frost, Hunt, Hibberd, Melksham and even McDonald are all attacking, fleet-of-foot players. I think Lewis may well play that sweeper role to cover out the back when our zone plays a little too high. 

In time, we'll see Joel Smith back there and that will probably release Hunt into the midfield or he'll take Melksham's spot. It'll be interesting to see where Jetts sits with all of this, when we're full strength. Is it Melksham v Smith or is it Smith v Jetta?

I also felt that we adjusted our zone this week. We played a high line at times, but we look so much better when we have Frost's pace to cover (playing the anchor), because it affords Tom more confidence to leave his man and take intercept marks. He was superb in this respect tonight.

It's still a work in progress, but as a group, I was really happy with the majority of their work tonight, under extreme pressure. If Jetta was playing at Adelaide he'd be in AA contention. He is rarely beaten and manages to keep the ball in front of himself, outmuscle much larger opponents and be clean when the heat is on. He's a star. Not a perfect game, but only a few errors amongst all that brilliant 1v1 work.

INSIDE 50s & OUR FORWARD LINE

We had an insane amount of inside 50s in the first half. I didn't realise quite how many we had until I watched the replay.

I certainly took issue with our poor entries at the time, which became worse as the game went on. None of this helped our forwards or our forward structure.

As a side note, I thought by comparison, Richmond's entries for the first 3 quarters were both a credit to our defence and a sign of the insipidness and dumb play by our opposition.

Despite the forward entries, or perhaps because of them, our entire forward set up tonight seemed dysfunctional. And aside from our own poor ball use, was it simply that Richmond zoned back well or was the problem that our forwards were not working hard enough to create space for each other?

The inside 50 tackle count was certainly a positive though and I thought we swarmed them at half forward multiple times in the first three quarters. Great to see.

On this basis, despite some ordinary errors and poor decisions, JKH will get a game next week. He laid 7.

For this same reason, despite some ordinary errors and poor decisions, ANB will get a game next week. He laid a game high 9 tackles.

Harmes laid outright second most tackles on the ground with 8.

These guys are only young players and they need time to show their wares this year and improve their decision making with this experience. I think all these guys offer more than Tom Bugg and they'll keep him out of the team, I would think.

OUR OPPOSITION

Richmond'd have to be one of the worst 5-0 teams of all time. Similar to the Roos last year. They will fall hard in the second half of the season. Bookmark it.

Everything is going right for them at the moment and it won't last. They're propped up by Martin (who is probably the best player in the competition right now), Riewoldt and occasionally Cochin when he turns up. It's certainly not sustainable in the finals and as they come up against better opposition this year, they'll really struggle. So if they even make the 8, they'll go out in straight sets IMO.

Just also found out that Riewoldt had (before tonight) never kicked more than 3 goals against us, so the fact that he kicked them out of his arse, was probably quite unusual against us. But it was his accurate goalkicking that certainly kept them in it, particularly in the first half. 

CHANGES FOR NEXT WEEK

Some Demonlanders may finally get their wish next week and see Pedo in the team, because I can't see them going with just Watts in the ruck. Can't see King playing either, after one VFL game back.

Lewis will come back in, probably for Smith and Pedo in for Spencer. It'll be interesting to see.

Edited April 24, 2017 by A F

[Grapeviney 9,574]

2 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

Absolutely shattered, but how good is it to be back playing in front of 85,000 people?! 

Largest ever home-and-away crowd between the two clubs.

Also the largest home-and-away crowd we've played in front of since '64, and the fourth-largest in MFC history. 

Not bad for a club that was on its knees just 3 years ago. 

[Adam The God 29,635]

9 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

Largest ever home-and-away crowd between the two clubs.

Also the largest home-and-away crowd we've played in front of since '64, and the fourth-largest in MFC history. 

Not bad for a club that was on its knees just 3 years ago. 

Can I love this post some more?

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,664]

Our ball movement and delivery into forward fifty has been atrocious for most this season.  Yes we yet multiple forward fifty entries, but most of them are just bombs or crap passes that  advantage the opposition.  Meanwhile the opposition gets on the fast break and scores against us far too easily where we have opened up the feild for them.  Even before injuries cruled our nights was a theme against Carlton, Geelong, Richmond and Freo.

Having Hibbard was a big help tonight at times, but surely some adjustment to the game plan required.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,880]

3 hours ago, america de cali said:

Hogan was a statue tonight. Does he ever lead? Arguably the worst three goal game ever.

Yeah he led and was constantly ignored. Then when they did kick to him they sat it on top of his head. He was also being scragged all night long, got one free kick but could've been a handful more. 

[Fork 'em 6,971]

If Watts is in the ruck next week I'll spew up.
You don't drive your ferrari in a smash up derby.