Defensive Structure

[The heart beats true 18,128]

I'd be very interested in what others are making of our defensive team set up - particularly in the last 2 weeks.

Regardless of experience in defence my issue lies more in how often Freo and Geelong got out the back, or into 1 on 1's against us.
I think you can see this in the score lines against us - both of the last 2 weeks we've had more scoring opportunities and gone down. I firmly believe this is more to do with the quality of the opportunities presented to our opponents. They kick the kickable goals because there isn't enough pressure applied.

To be clear I don't think this is as much a 'back 6' issue as it is a whole team structure issue. We seem to be too high risk in our set ups and if turned around we simply aren't there in numbers.

I'm watching the 3rd quarter again now - Why are we so opposed to dropping a player back (especially when a team gets a run on)? Because that player is logically Watts and we can't kick goals without him forward? 

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

Lewis and Hogan are two other options to drop back. Otherwise we don't have a bunch of options given the 

One issue is the drop off in forward pressure.

Maybe even bigger is the drop off in midfield pressure around the ball and in transition.

Then to compound it we have a backline that doesn't play with a lot of trust in each other. Too many going up for the same ball and not enough confidence with the simple defensive skills like tackling and spoiling yet alone the skills with the ball.

I'd rather we play like we do and stuff up than go back to a man on man structure as I've seen the Hawks win 3 flags followed by the Dogs beat Sydney with a huge advantage in rebounding and creating scores due to defensive set up, but there's a lot of problems to work through.

The forward structure is probably even worse!

[von 1,567]

We missed Lewis I think. We looked a lot more organised in the first two weeks. But we got caught out up the ground a lot today with turn overs and over lap. I'm not sure if we were better placed with frost over o mac today. He did a few good things. Although he's not yet up to it yet o mac seems to understand the synergy of the back line better. 

[rjay 24,951]

34 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Lewis and Hogan are two other options to drop back. Otherwise we don't have a bunch of options given the 

One issue is the drop off in forward pressure.

Maybe even bigger is the drop off in midfield pressure around the ball and in transition.

Then to compound it we have a backline that doesn't play with a lot of trust in each other. Too many going up for the same ball and not enough confidence with the simple defensive skills like tackling and spoiling yet alone the skills with the ball.

I'd rather we play like we do and stuff up than go back to a man on man structure as I've seen the Hawks win 3 flags followed by the Dogs beat Sydney with a huge advantage in rebounding and creating scores due to defensive set up, but there's a lot of problems to work through.

The forward structure is probably even worse!

 

38 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I'd be very interested in what others are making of our defensive team set up - particularly in the last 2 weeks.

Regardless of experience in defence my issue lies more in how often Freo and Geelong got out the back, or into 1 on 1's against us.
I think you can see this in the score lines against us - both of the last 2 weeks we've had more scoring opportunities and gone down. I firmly believe this is more to do with the quality of the opportunities presented to our opponents. They kick the kickable goals because there isn't enough pressure applied.

To be clear I don't think this is as much a 'back 6' issue as it is a whole team structure issue. We seem to be too high risk in our set ups and if turned around we simply aren't there in numbers.

I'm watching the 3rd quarter again now - Why are we so opposed to dropping a player back (especially when a team gets a run on)? Because that player is logically Watts and we can't kick goals without him forward? 

To be honest I wouldn't have a lot of trust in most of them if I were back there either.

We don't have the depth of talent back there at the moment...and whilst as 'heart' says he is not talking about back 6 issues, it is a big part of the problem.

Tommy Mac had a shocker today, I know he is iffy with disposal but at least he usually has sure hands but today no...

Frost, forget about him. He really is an athlete and will never be a footballer. He has absolutely no idea of the fundamentals of the game, is a poor decision maker and thinks a zone means he doesn't have to account for anyone.

Melch...we've overpaid on him. Interesting to see if the coach drops his mate this week.

Jetta, needs to be 195cm...he's stable but has no pace at his height which means he can get caught out. A smart player, playing to his strengths but we need a tall like him...

Hunt is the only legit weapon at the moment and he can't do it all.

Bernie & Salem, neither are defenders and are out of position.

We need Hibberd to step up, particularly with what we gave up for him.

Watts wanted to push back when we hit the lead in the last Q, he was told to stay forward and the rest is history. Poor decision from the coach when Sandy was dominating the middle....

Edited April 15, 2017 by rjay

[Diamond_Jim 12,595]

Posted this on the Post Match thread:

"At the game today and noticed they put Watts back for the last few minutes of the second quarter.

Good idea but he was badly outplayed when the ball came to ground and well... we know what happened.

Why didn't we putt Watts and a crumber back ... one on one ground play is and never has been Watt's strength"

[dazzledavey36 54,994]

McCarthy had 11 disposals in the 1st Qtr. 

yuk

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

1 minute ago, rjay said:

 

To be honest I wouldn't have a lot of trust in most of them if I were back there either.

We don't have the depth of talent back there at the moment...and whilst as 'heart' says he is not talking about back 6 issues, it is a big part of the problem.

Tommy Mac had a shocker today, I know he is iffy with disposal but at least he usually has sure hands but today no...

Frost, forget about him. He really is an athlete and will never be a footballer. He has absolutely no idea of the fundamentals of the game, is a poor decision maker and thinks a zone means he doesn't have to account for anyone.

Melch...we've overpaid on him. Interesting to see if the coach drops his mate this week.

Jetta, needs to be 195cm...he's stable but has no pace at his height which means he can get caught out. A smart player, playing to his strengths.

Hunt is the only legit weapon at the moment and he can't do it all.

Bernie & Salem, neither are defenders and are out of position.

We need Hibberd to step up, particularly with what we gave up for him.

Watts wanted to push back when we hit the lead in the last Q, he was told to stay forward and the rest is history. Poor decision from the coach when Sandy was dominating the middle....

Agree with all of that, although you have to play with what you've got. Definitely think Wagner and Smith would be competing for a spot if not both in the side and Hibberd anywhere near his best would be an upgrade and in theory our best 2 way defender. I also think Salem and previous years Bernie would both be very good back flankers. They aren't defenders as such but they are the type of player you have from half back, same with Lewis. A kicker/ball winner on one flank, a runner like Hunt on the other. 

I too saw Watts call for the runner when we hit the lead. The coaches gambled on whether to put a man back or go with a defensive off the square zone set up. We won the ball back so I can't argue with the plan. Unfortunately we then coughed it up. They had numbers and needed to switch and hit a few leads in to open space to get to half way before playing kick to kick. Then after a few kick to kick efforts they should've set up the long bomb. Instead it was a couple of short kicks, back to the boundary line before the cough up.

Without blaming Watts for too much he did make a hash of his loose man duties before half time. That probably influenced the decision. He's really not the right type of player to be the loose defender. He had a chance to rush up and make a big smother or intercept or to hold back in space and got caught trying a half baked smother.

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

McCarthy had 11 disposals in the 1st Qtr. 

yuk

Any mobile key forward worth his weight will find huge gaps in the zone if the pressure is down the the McDonald is down.

We've been lucky that Casboult is a plonker and that Harry Taylor is a defender/Hawkins refuses to move (But got enough service over the back at times).

[Skuit 10,031]

Heavy forward press = more scoring shots + easier goals out the back.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,684]

Watching live it was simple really: lack of running/work rate. Laziness? Fitness? Application? In any the flood of white jumpers moving forward ahead of red and blue jumpers was plain to see. Several times we were outnumbered in our defensive 50 which is just poor running back, not so much structure me thinks.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Deemented Are Go!

[The heart beats true 18,128]

After watching the replay I think we also got exposed a few times by either lack of speed (Jetta is a gun but his weakness is going with speedy forwards) or the 3rd man up not getting the job done (both McDonald and Vince had 3 or 4 shockers that lead directly to goals).

The conclusion I drew is get Hogan forward so Watts can go back to stem the bleeding, and to get Hibberd in to help McDonald kill the ball in the air.

[Redleg 40,951]

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

After watching the replay I think we also got exposed a few times by either lack of speed (Jetta is a gun but his weakness is going with speedy forwards) or the 3rd man up not getting the job done (both McDonald and Vince had 3 or 4 shockers that lead directly to goals).

The conclusion I drew is get Hogan forward so Watts can go back to stem the bleeding, and to get Hibberd in to help McDonald kill the ball in the air.

That lack of speed is a problem with us, as for example yesterday the two Hills, Walters and a few other Dockers simply ran away from us.

Aside from Hunt and Jeffy, we are slow. Even Billy seems a bit slower now he has bulked up a bit.

When there is quick spread we are gone.

When you are beaten at the stoppages and then there is spread goodnight.

[Adam The God 30,273]

4 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

After watching the replay I think we also got exposed a few times by either lack of speed (Jetta is a gun but his weakness is going with speedy forwards) or the 3rd man up not getting the job done (both McDonald and Vince had 3 or 4 shockers that lead directly to goals).

The conclusion I drew is get Hogan forward so Watts can go back to stem the bleeding, and to get Hibberd in to help McDonald kill the ball in the air.

1) Disagree. He has the wood over both Betts and Wingard. 

2) Hogan should go back and Watts stay forward. Hogan did this in the GWS win last year.

Edited April 16, 2017 by A F

[Adam The God 30,273]

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

That lack of speed is a problem with us, as for example yesterday the two Hills, Walters and a few other Dockers simply ran away from us.

Aside from Hunt and Jeffy, we are slow. Even Billy seems a bit slower now he has bulked up a bit.

When there is quick spread we are gone.

When you are beaten at the stoppages and then there is spread goodnight.

I was expecting this to get us more often, but I think our speed of ball movement is just as dangerous to an opposition. Yesterday though, we didn't move it quick enough or take the required risk to get it moving quickly. But, you've got to remember their spread didn't win them the game. I'd argue their straight kicking did.