Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

28 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Serious questsion.  How many first round picks do you think are fair for Danger or Martin (or an in form Fyfe)?

How many second year players have you seen have more impact than Oliver?

If we got three first rounders for Oliver what are the chances of getting a player anything like him?

I think the reality is you can't put a price on Oliver because he is such a rare talent.

Not 9 draft picks. And that's for Danger or Martin who have performed at an elite level year after year.

I know what Wiseblood was getting at, I just wanted to be a smartarse.

But if you're asking me honestly about Oliver, I would take three first round picks over him, but as follows: Two inside the top 10 and one outside.

I love Clarry as much as anyone, but I want us to unearth a genuine star of the competition. And we haven't done that yet or ever for as long as I've followed the club. I hope he continues this trajectory in both form and development because if he does, I may similarly say that you can't put a price on him. At present however, you can.

Edited September 20, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[Wiseblood 24,637]

38 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I would.

Without blinking. 

How's that sense of humour, Steve?

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Wiseblood

[Redleg 42,142]

9 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

How's that sense of humour, Steve?

 

I lost mine in round 23.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I lost mine in round 23.

Mine was gone by 2012.  You've done well, Red.

[Redleg 42,142]

Maybe just maybe Jack Watts has been ruined by this club with its poor standards and constant changes and now that we are getting it together he just needs to refocus.

One thing we know for sure and that is that he has better skills than most of his team mates and is the best set shot for goal on our list.

He also has the ability to set up play and deliver the ball accurately to team mates.

Perhaps instead of throwing him out with the rubbish, we try and get him to fit into our plans and get the best out of him.

This is the same bloke who was composed enough to kick the winning goal on the run against the Pies, on QB and then run down the other end, to grab a mark and save the game. He is also the same bloke who was thrown into the ruck and ran himself into the ground for us earlier this year. 

He has talent, lets try and get it used for our benefit.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

28 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I love Clarry as much as anyone, but I want us to unearth a genuine star of the competition. And we haven't done that yet

So you're telling me that we have more chance to unearth a star with 2 top ten and 1 outside than sticking with Oliver.  That indicates to me that you don't see him as a rare talent capable (or likely) of becoming a star of the competition despite having as good a second year as anyone I can remember.

That surprises me.

I was expecting "three players are better than one", I wasn't expecting "if we had three picks we'd get on that's better than Clarry".

Clarry and Trac are the two best prospects I've seen at MFC since Flower.  They are in the right environment.  There is no price I'd accept for either that could be seriously offered.

And on a completely different topic I really like the Rivers/Lever comparison except Lever is a much better kick.  For the record I loved Rivers, seriously underrated and if Lever was as good and could kick it would be gold for our club.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Vogon Poetry

[whatwhat say what 23,836]

My Crows supporting mates rate Lever as the best young defender in the competition and think he's worth every bit of a straight swap for Petracca, or two picks in the first round minimum 

I don't know any Crows supporter who doesn't rate him super highly

They are also cognizant of the fact that what they want for him and what they get will probably not match...

[Glenn Molloy 494]

Anyone who says Lever was pick 14 and therefore we shouldn't give anything more than pick 10 is kidding themselves.  If that draft was re-done now, Lever would be pick 3 behind Heeney and Petracca.  He's had three years of development too.  

I think two first rounders may be overs but 10 and 27 is probably the minimum we'll have to pay here.  You can get a decent player at 27 but it's very hit or miss.  Historically, we're pretty generous when it comes to trading....if we like a player, we'll try and get the deal done, unlike the Bummers, who in this situation would probably give pick 63 for Lever and still be kicking and screaming.  

[Mickey 4,777]

13 minutes ago, Glenn Molloy said:

Anyone who says Lever was pick 14 and therefore we shouldn't give anything more than pick 10 is kidding themselves.  If that draft was re-done now, Lever would be pick 3 behind Heeney and Petracca.  He's had three years of development too.  

I think two first rounders may be overs but 10 and 27 is probably the minimum we'll have to pay here.  You can get a decent player at 27 but it's very hit or miss.  Historically, we're pretty generous when it comes to trading....if we like a player, we'll try and get the deal done, unlike the Bummers, who in this situation would probably give pick 63 for Lever and still be kicking and screaming.  

Dodo was on Trade Radio yesterday, saying he doesn't understand why people think they are difficult, and that they have given players away ?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

All things being equal, Lever for Petracca would be roughly about right.

But, unfortunately for Adelaide, when a player is out of contract and wants out, and if he does happen to nominate us as the club he wants to go to, then you are always going to get the rough end of it.

Happens every single year, and what other option do they have than to accept? Let him walk for nothing into the draft?

We will give them some decent picks, or a decent pick and an ok player, but it would be foolish to even think about offering up any of our best young talent.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Forest Demon

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,534]

If we traded Petracca for Lever and Lever ends up having the better career and we also retain our picks, then we'd win on that trade right?

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Not necessarily however it does raise the point of resigning/extending Petraccca's contract . I'm sure other clubs already have or will have a decent crack at him so I'll sleep better when that little matter is attended to.

[beelzebub 23,392]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I love Clarry as much as anyone, but I want us to unearth a genuine star of the competition. And we haven't done that yet ........

All in the one paragraph !!

Mighty achievement there Steve.

Amazing 

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

39 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Not necessarily however it does raise the point of resigning/extending Petraccca's contract . I'm sure other clubs already have or will have a decent crack at him so I'll sleep better when that little matter is attended to.

He's had initial talks about a three year extension with the club. He wants to stay and we want him to stay

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

Maybe just maybe Jack Watts has been ruined by this club with its poor standards and constant changes and now that we are getting it together he just needs to refocus.

One thing we know for sure and that is that he has better skills than most of his team mates and is the best set shot for goal on our list.

He also has the ability to set up play and deliver the ball accurately to team mates.

Perhaps instead of throwing him out with the rubbish, we try and get him to fit into our plans and get the best out of him.

This is the same bloke who was composed enough to kick the winning goal on the run against the Pies, on QB and then run down the other end, to grab a mark and save the game. He is also the same bloke who was thrown into the ruck and ran himself into the ground for us earlier this year. 

He has talent, lets try and get it used for our benefit.

With the risk of turning this thread in to a JW thread......

I have to disagree... First off i would llke to clarify i am not a Jack basher, im just calling it as i see it.

Jack is a super talented outside player.

Im also not saying he has to or should be traded. 

I believe now Jacks problems are jacks alone. I dont buy these excuses anymore. Jack needs to take responsibility for Jack.

There is no argument this clus has been a massive basket case. But Jack has now had some of the leagues best development coaches for the last 3 to 4 years. 

Nathan Joness career didnt dwindle at this club (i acknowledge these are 2 very different players) but i really feel now its a bit of a cop out.

You also talk about his finishing, and i strongly agrree, but it takes a team effort.to win a game, not 1 play from.Jack Watts. Let's not sell snake oil here. Fleeting in and out of games is not necessarily a solid.contribution.

My understanding is the team philosphy is no passengers, i think jack needs to ask himself if he's a passanger or a contributor under the standards set down by the leadership group.

It's really now up to jack. If he feels (or the club feels) he can't meet the requirements, then he shoild go.

If he can biy in to the standards set by his peers I'm happy for him to stay.

But no more excuses. The current reports in the media dont paint a great picture.

Maybe just maybe Jack needs a wake up call

Edited September 20, 2017 by Unleash Hell

[Nasher 33,651]

There's no way the club would even consider trading Petracca anyway, it's just a lol-worthy suggestion.  I want Lever, but I don't see the point in the trade if it costs another player likely to be instrumental in our success going forward; it just becomes a sideways step (or at best, a small one forward).  If that's really Adelaide's opening offer, they are clearly just starting with an ambit claim in order to set the tone for the conversation and going from there.

The final exchange will be pick 10 and whatever upgrade of later/future picks are required. It could be something like asking for Brisbane's 2017 second round pick for our 2017 third round pick and our 2018 second round pick if they'd consider something like that, and including that for Lever.  

[beelzebub 23,392]

Oh.....no....

[beelzebub 23,392]

Lever will come for #10 and change. 

[Dirts 429]

18 minutes ago, Abe said:

He's had initial talks about a three year extension with the club. He wants to stay and we want him to stay

Petracca is the next Dangerfield so no no no. Dee for life!

[Roger Mellie 4,205]

22 minutes ago, Nasher said:

lol-worthy

I'm going to insert that into the RM dictionary (Volume 3) of useful and amusing words.

Thanks Nasher

[Older demon 2,801]

There are some in Adelaide according to the news who think Lever shouldn't play this weekend as they are sure he is leaving. That is crazy IMO and thankfully Richard Douglas reckons while he is contracted to the Crows all they want is Lever's best. How different is the attitude from NRL where players declare mid season if they are going.

We all believed Frawley was going and Roos played him up forward to groom a replacement backman but still played Chip. Adelaide demanding Trac or Clarry tells me they aren't coping well with someone wanting to leave Adelaide to return home.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

So you're telling me that we have more chance to unearth a star with 2 top ten and 1 outside than sticking with Oliver.  That indicates to me that you don't see him as a rare talent capable (or likely) of becoming a star of the competition despite having as good a second year as anyone I can remember.

That surprises me.

I was expecting "three players are better than one", I wasn't expecting "if we had three picks we'd get on that's better than Clarry".

Clarry and Trac are the two best prospects I've seen at MFC since Flower.  They are in the right environment.  There is no price I'd accept for either that could be seriously offered.

And on a completely different topic I really like the Rivers/Lever comparison except Lever is a much better kick.  For the record I loved Rivers, seriously underrated and if Lever was as good and could kick it would be gold for our club.

I think view typifies the stereotypical one-eyed supporter.

You talk clarry up, yet only rate Lever against Rivers without expressing the same level of love or confidence that he could too similarly be a star of the comp.

I don't doubt Clarry's talent and I certainly think what he achieved and produced this year was very special for a second year player. But as Melbourne supporter, I'm used to players not reaching or fulfilling their potential. So as I said, at this point in time I would take the hypothetical swap. Ask me in a couple of years or even at the end of next year and my answer may be different.

I see a lot of potential with our young group but it genuinely irks me that some think it'll just happen for us. 

 

[Willmoy1947 4,260]

2 hours ago, Mickey said:

Dodo was on Trade Radio yesterday, saying he doesn't understand why people think they are difficult, and that they have given players away ?

Thirty Four!!!!

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

36 minutes ago, Older demon said:

There are some in Adelaide according to the news who think Lever shouldn't play this weekend as they are sure he is leaving. That is crazy IMO and thankfully Richard Douglas reckons while he is contracted to the Crows all they want is Lever's best. How different is the attitude from NRL where players declare mid season if they are going.

We all believed Frawley was going and Roos played him up forward to groom a replacement backman but still played Chip. Adelaide demanding Trac or Clarry tells me they aren't coping well with someone wanting to leave Adelaide to return home.

I don't understand why we can't be more mature about it. Danger was leaving a long way out and it would have been nice if we could have just known 

[beelzebub 23,392]

4 hours ago, Mickey said:

Dodo was on Trade Radio yesterday, saying he doesn't understand why people think they are difficult, and that they have given players away ?

Essendon folk seldom understand normal realities.