Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[whatwhat say what 23,448]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

The Blues will chase anything in orange.  They can't really develop their own talent all that well, outside of Cripps, so they need to get it from elsewhere.

i am sick to death of everyone raving about the carlton youngsters

best on the weekend were, according to the esteemed judges at afl.com.au: Kreuzer, Gibbs, Murphy, Curnow, Docherty, Casboult, Kerridge

other than curnow and docherty, not one is 23 and under

their youth is talented, but their senior players remain their best players

that carlton are so low on the ladder for the last several years is an indictment upon these senior players; the likes of kreuzer, gibbs and murphy are absolutely brilliant footballers and should be leading the blues much better than they have been

[Cards13 9,117]

12 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

The Blues will chase anything in orange.  They can't really develop their own talent all that well, outside of Cripps, so they need to get it from elsewhere.

I heard old Marg the lollipop lady who mans the Rathdowne st lights across from Carlton Primary has been offered heaps by SOS.

[Roger Mellie 4,173]

1 hour ago, brendan said:

Outside speed here is 1 from left field just read on afl website that dom barry has been tearing it up for glenelg, I always liked him was a shame he left but family comes 1st, I wonder if he is in a position for a second crack at it 

He'd need a decent attitude adjustment. He didn't do any of his preseason programs in his time at the club. Made Oliver look like Captain Commitment

[Gator 17,972]

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Last week you were suggesting Frost plus early picks for Lever and Jones.  Your view was TMac wouldn't stay as a long term forward.  You also thought Frost, Macs x 2 shouldn't play in the same back line because of their disposal skills.  I thought it was an absolutely reasonable position to take although I didn't necessarily agree with all aspects of it.

On the weekend we saw some really interesting performances.  Has that caused you to rethink your views?

My concern is that if we use our early picks to get the Lever deal done we are spending our leverage to improve an area we are well served so whilst we are better it's a high price to pay for the improvement.  My view is we really need some class outside speed and I'd be searching for it far and wide.  Kelly is an obvious one but I'm wondering if there are other options at other clubs.

Does anyone have any ideas?

OK, this is what I said,:

"There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever.

My guess is that Frost would be traded.  Oscar is developing well and at 197cms he has a tonne of physical development left.  Splitting up the brothers is also problematic."

This comment was made before Tom McDonald morphed into Peter Hudson on the weekend, where balls mysteriously landed in his hands in marking contests and he slotted goals that were once beyond his pay grade.

To me, there wasn't much point securing Lever and retaining the aforementioned players when we also have the 191cm high leaping Joel Smith, who is also thereabouts.

Has the weekend changed my views ?  Yes, to an extent.

Imo, Oscar and Frost have both been better without Tom down back with them.  I don't like all three in the backline together due to their kicking skills out of defence*, plus, we now have enough evidence to suggest Oscar and Sam have grown without Tom.  It's been win/win.

I'm still not convinced Tom will be able to keep up his strong performances in the forward-line, but I'm a lot more open-minded than I was 3 weeks ago.  I'd be silly to ignore the evidence.

I agree with the need for outside speed and I agree the need for Lever is less than it was a month ago.  But gee, Lever will be a star. 

*There is kicking and there is kicking.  Oscar and Frost are becoming reasonably reliable in that they usually hit easy targets, but there is no flair or creativity in their kicking and I still have concerns with them under pressure or their ability to hit a difficult kick that's required at the right time and moment.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ProDee

[Red and Blue realist 2,058]

15 minutes ago, ProDee said:

 

*There is kicking and there is kicking.  Oscar and Frost are becoming reasonably reliable in that they usually hit easy targets, but there is no flair or creativity in their kicking and I still have concerns with them under pressure or their ability to hit a difficult kick that's required at the right time and moment.

Agree with the all that you said, one thing I think we need the coaches to work on is for a better plan with our 'bail out' kicks. OMac and Frost, seem to kick their bail outs shorter than most and on 45 degree angles so seem very easy to read. With time i expect they'll get better, but it's also up to the coaches to get them there and provide a plan for those pressure kicks. Leave the creativity to Hibberd or Hunt, or like Frost does often, tuck the ball under the arm and sprint out of trouble until they can go for those easy targets. 

[What 18,810]

If we are a destination club now, as we all believe we are, surely we are able to land Lever, Kelly or Hopper? (Or another comparable young gun)

[binman 44,533]

A couple of things pd. Firstly, i thought you were pretty dismissive of my argument as to how we could fit lever in and not lose frost.

 An element of my argument was that tmac was looking more and more a natural forward. You rejected that comment. Ill note it was made before you had your mind changed by his peter hudson performance on the weekend. But lets be honest the signs were there for a while he was a natural forward - unsurprising given he played all his juniour career as one. Even those ding bats darcy and richo pointed how good his leading patterns and forward instincts were way back against the pies - and he did kick 5 against wc.

Yet you change your position after last weekends game and have now come to much tbe same conclusion i did prior to the clues game.? Polar opposite views you said.

Perhaps it might be better not to be so quick to reject the arguments of orher posters, particularly when you initiate the discussion saying you like dispassionate logical discussions.

The second thing is i actually think omac is starting to show sign his kicking could become more of an offensive weapon. There were a couple of excellent bullet passes on tbe weekend from him. One near the end of tbe 1st q that opened up the corridor before lewis turned it over. But yes a work in progress.

Agree wirh frost but a real point of difference for frost - and an important part of game plan - is that he is often an offensive threat. He clearly has been instructed to take players on and run hard out of tbe back half. He so often plays on, runs 20 metres and kicks it 50 metres. Yes he can spray it but often he is driving the ball inside our forward line. Huge for us and with hunt they represent a very important part of our strategy. I suspect smith, who i still say may end up as a mid, will play a similar role. I cant see lever playing this style

The most simialr player to lever is actually omac. Both are zone defenders whose strength is gettting across to spoil or intetcept mark.

Edited July 12, 2017 by binman

[Gator 17,972]

"I'm still not convinced Tom will be able to keep up his strong performances in the forward-line, but I'm a lot more open-minded than I was 3 weeks ago.  I'd be silly to ignore the evidence."

[binman 44,533]

Agree with your comment about the evidence. Which is why i was bemused you rejected my argument about tmac being a forward option before the blues game.  As i pointed then and just now the evidence was already there for all to see.

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

15 hours ago, McQueen said:

They played the audio of that interview on 360 and I'd put my hard earned on him leaving.

Was being far too coy for mine. 

He did say at the end of the interview that he 'trusted' ... 'the club' etc.

He was slightly equivocal but I'm not sure you could say he's leaving on the strength of that interview - he seemed to be putting his scent out there a little though.

Fingers crossed, I would absolutely love to land this guy - might be the fill-up we need to avoid the inevitable Premiership hangover we may otherwise suffer next year.

 

[Gator 17,972]

19 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree with your comment about the evidence. Which is why i was bemused you rejected my argument about tmac being a forward option before the blues game.  As i pointed then and just now the evidence was already there for all to see.

 

I rejected it because I've seen him run around like a plonker when he's started forward at the beginning of games.

Maybe you have a poor memory, but McDonald started forward in a couple of games with Roos and was shouse.  He's always been better when it's happened mid game and there's been an element of surprise.  This happened under Roos a couple of times (mid game) and it was ok when Goodwin tried.  I was still skeptical he could be a quality permanent key forward after the West Coast game.

Even now I'm not totally sold, but the evidence is mounting.

I'm not sure even McDonald thought he could be a quality key forward tall a month ago.

Anyway, enough.  You're boring.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ProDee

[binman 44,533]

Boring is a far sigt better than being unable to manage a debate without being dismissive and rude. 

[Gator 17,972]

38 minutes ago, binman said:

Boring is a far sigt better than being unable to manage a debate without being dismissive and rude. 

I never said I was perfect.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,243]

According to some crab on the radio over here, Adelaide's offer to Lever is around the 600k mark. 

[dazzledavey36 55,891]

We're front runners according to Barrett 

https://www.triplem.com.au/sport/afl/news/damian-barrett-names-a-possible-frontrunner-for-jake-lever

[What 18,810]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We're front runners according to Barrett 

https://www.triplem.com.au/sport/afl/news/damian-barrett-names-a-possible-frontrunner-for-jake-lever

mother of god

Let it happen.

[The heart beats true 18,183]

Lever is a good player no doubt, but he's allowed to read the play and react because of Talia.

Im not sure we have a Talia type. I think we have a lot of 'developing' Lever types. 

Id love to have him, but I'd love a gun outside midfield runner more. GWS have a few, but one of them wouldn't exactly be welcomed back with opened arms.

I actually think our defence is looking ok. Our team defence and structure is often the issue.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,243]

Just pure speculation by Barrett, which is pretty much all he is good at. 

[layzie 34,339]

Gun defender in the making but certainly wouldn't sell the farm for him.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,243]

I wonder if Adelaide would consider a trade for Vince so Sloane doesn't have to get tagged by him again? 

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,310]

Last night showed how far our Defence needs to improve. 

I hope the Purple Creature is on the money with this one. 

[Deestroy All 14,266]

43 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I wonder if Adelaide would consider a trade for Vince so Sloane doesn't have to get tagged by him again? 

 

That strategy would see the Crows running around with 17 taggers from other teams. 

Sloane is proving to be the most taggable bloke in the history of the world. 

[Adam The God 30,614]

59 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Last night showed how far our Defence needs to improve. 

I hope the Purple Creature is on the money with this one. 

Last night was simply an imperfect storm of all our defenders (with the except of perhaps Jetta) having absolute shockers. Hibberd, despite getting a heap of it was terrible; Frost probably cost us 5 goals alone; Oscar struggled; and Joel Smith looked completely lost again 

I reckon Lever's soft issue injury history is a slight concern. How many times has he been injured already this year?

[Deestroy All 14,266]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

Last night was simply an imperfect storm of all our defenders (with the except of perhaps Jetta) having absolute shockers. Hibberd, despite getting a heap of it was terrible; Frost probably cost us 5 goals alone; Oscar struggled; and Joel Smith looked completely lost again 

I reckon Lever's soft issue injury history is a slight concern. How many times has he been injured already this year?

Not having a midfield and allowing the ball to continually get delivered to the best forward line in the comp didn't help the defenders either. 

[Gator 17,972]

Frost is a chronic fumbler.