Terrorist attack on Canadian Mosque

[Biffen 12,943]

I consider this latest piece of news to be a sad yet inevitable consequence of politicians seeking votes  from new arrivals against the wishes of its established citizenry.

I'm interested to know people's opinions on it and hope it can be discussed reasonably.

I lay the blame at the feet of Treudeau, though others may not.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

3 hours ago, Biffen said:

I consider this latest piece of news to be a sad yet inevitable consequence of politicians seeking votes  from new arrivals against the wishes of its established citizenry.

I'm interested to know people's opinions on it and hope it can be discussed reasonably.

I lay the blame at the feet of Treudeau, though others may not.

Steady Biff, we don't have the facts yet, other than 6 people, presumably Muslims are dead. We know nothing of the two perpetrators captured, their motives are unknown. They could be God fearing Christians of Canadian origin for all we know at this time. 

And as for Trudeau, he has only been in power for a year, is he responsible for all foreigners, (new arrivals)living in Canada today? I think not. 

Lets hold off our judgements until we have more information 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Earl Hood

[Cards13 9,117]

Calling it a terrorist attack.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-mosque-shooting-idUSKBN15E04S?il=0

Edited January 30, 2017 by Cards13

[Biffen 12,943]

I imagine the killers are Christians/Canadian or French in origin Earl.

I'm fairly sure Trudeau's well intentioned speech was the catalyst for it.

The method of terror is deplorable and the innocence of it's victims is unquestionable.

It's a global truth that Muslims seek entry into leftist leaning countries and governments and Trudeau is one of a long line of Canadian prime Ministers to back multiculturalist ideals and policies.In return, Muslims vote almost in a block for the left.

The Labor party in the UK is now in tatters ,Holland is lurching to the far right under Fonteyn,Belgium more so.

The French will not elect a left winger for the foreseeable decade.

How this reflects on Australia is unknown ,with Turnbull mouthing some very conciliatory language in response to Trumpism.

I can nearly guarantee One Nation will grow in representation, which is a sad by product of all this.

Interesting times.

On a positive note,I am working on bringing in some Civet coffee to Melbourne ,in an attempt to wipe out this fair trade bizzo.

Not only does my product taste better than your expensive swill but it exploits animals and human producers concurrently .

[Earl Hood 6,086]

10 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I imagine the killers are Christians/Canadian or French in origin Earl.

I'm fairly sure Trudeau's well intentioned speech was the catalyst for it.

The method of terror is deplorable and the innocence of it's victims is unquestionable.

It's a global truth that Muslims seek entry into leftist leaning countries and governments and Trudeau is one of a long line of Canadian prime Ministers to back multiculturalist ideals and policies.In return, Muslims vote almost in a block for the left.

The Labor party in the UK is now in tatters ,Holland is lurching to the far right under Fonteyn,Belgium more so.

The French will not elect a left winger for the foreseeable decade.

How this reflects on Australia is unknown ,with Turnbull mouthing some very conciliatory language in response to Trumpism.

I can nearly guarantee One Nation will grow in representation, which is a sad by product of all this.

Interesting times.

On a positive note,I am working on bringing in some Civet coffee to Melbourne ,in an attempt to wipe out this fair trade bizzo.

Not only does my product taste better than your expensive swill but it exploits animals and human producers concurrently .

I must try this new coffee, mixed perhaps with guava paste, it could be a winner.

My basic rule on coffee is that it should be naturally grown and not have passed through a gut of some creature. Call me conservative if you like! 

[daisycutter 29,616]

50 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I must try this new coffee, mixed perhaps with guava paste, it could be a winner.

My basic rule on coffee is that it should be naturally grown and not have passed through a gut of some creature. Call me conservative if you like! 

i prefer aztec or mayan cofee, earl. it's worth the sacrifice.

[dieter 3,325]

18 hours ago, Biffen said:

I consider this latest piece of news to be a sad yet inevitable consequence of politicians seeking votes  from new arrivals against the wishes of its established citizenry.

I'm interested to know people's opinions on it and hope it can be discussed reasonably.

I lay the blame at the feet of Treudeau, though others may not.

Saw this today:  THE man accused of orchestrating a deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque was a “right-wing troll” who took anti-foreigner positions and supported US President Donald Trump,

This was the headline for New .com.

Yet you blame Trudeau.

You have a very strange mind, Mr Biffen, very strange indeed.

[Biffen 12,943]

17 minutes ago, dieter said:

Saw this today:  THE man accused of orchestrating a deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque was a “right-wing troll” who took anti-foreigner positions and supported US President Donald Trump,

This was the headline for New .com.

Yet you blame Trudeau.

You have a very strange mind, Mr Biffen, very strange indeed.

i actually predicted it was a Canadian/Frenchman and I have no doubt he is considered right wing.

Do you think because News.com said he was a Trump supporter that this is some kind of revelation?

Last time I checked Trump was not in charge of Canada.

Trudeau inviting Muslims into Canada the previous day is possibly what set this "troll" into action.

Canada is not the only country sick of having to provide" Lebensraum" for Muslims.

Your own place of birth has large sections of the community that want their country back also.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Biffen

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

58 minutes ago, Biffen said:

i actually predicted it was a Canadian/Frenchman and I have no doubt he is considered right wing.

Do you think because News.com said he was a Trump supporter that this is some kind of revelation?

Last time I checked Trump was not in charge of Canada.

Trudeau inviting Muslims into Canada the previous day is possibly what set this "troll" into action.

Canada is not the only country sick of having to provide" Lebensraum" for Muslims.

Your own place of birth has large sections of the community that want their country back also.

 

I hear this a lot, what exactly does it mean?

Like, how many and which immigrants are acceptable for you to be comfortable this Australia is 'your country'?

Apparently the Muslim population is only 2.2%.

I am curious as to what percentage of the population you would be happy with? 1%? 0%?

Then after you settle on a number, what sort of numbers would you like for other ethnicities? How do you separate race and religion? If you advocate for deportation (and I don't know if you do or not), do you deport Australian born Muslim converts as well? Conversely, do you deport a Christian or an Atheist who originally came from Iran? 

I am genuinely curious as to how many immigrants we need to kick out to 'get our country back'.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

In the words of Justin Trudeau

 

Quote

To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength 

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by iv'a worn smith

[Biffen 12,943]

2 hours ago, Choke said:

 

I hear this a lot, what exactly does it mean?

Like, how many and which immigrants are acceptable for you to be comfortable this Australia is 'your country'?

Apparently the Muslim population is only 2.2%.

I am curious as to what percentage of the population you would be happy with? 1%? 0%?

Then after you settle on a number, what sort of numbers would you like for other ethnicities? How do you separate race and religion? If you advocate for deportation (and I don't know if you do or not), do you deport Australian born Muslim converts as well? Conversely, do you deport a Christian or an Atheist who originally came from Iran? 

I am genuinely curious as to how many immigrants we need to kick out to 'get our country back'.

It means Germany.

[hardtack 10,539]

22 hours ago, Biffen said:

i actually predicted it was a Canadian/Frenchman and I have no doubt he is considered right wing.

Do you think because News.com said he was a Trump supporter that this is some kind of revelation?

Last time I checked Trump was not in charge of Canada.

Trudeau inviting Muslims into Canada the previous day is possibly what set this "troll" into action.

Canada is not the only country sick of having to provide" Lebensraum" for Muslims.

Your own place of birth has large sections of the community that want their country back also.

Perhaps Trudeau's offer triggered the terrorist's final action, but it was more than likely Trump's rhetoric that validated (in his mind) what he did.  Trudeau was taking a humanitarian stance, something he felt morally obliged to do as a result of Trump's policy...so even though Trump is not the leader of Canada, being the head of the most powerful nation on the planet, his actions do have a direct impact (as they do on the rest of the world...that old "America sneeezes, the rest of the world catches a cold" thing).

I'm not knowledgeable in history and not particularly good at arguing politics, but I do find the use of the term "lebensraum" in this case to be a bit rich...I hope you are not comparing the motivations of those immigrants of islamic faith to those of the nazis. I doubt very much those fleeing the horrors of places like Syria, are thinking along those lines...they simply want to find safety for themselves and their families as far away from the likes of ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban etc, as possible.

From a holocaust site:

 "Even though it translates literally to mean only “living space,” lebensraum carried with it the desire for the Nazis to expand into other countries to provide living space for the growing German race."

Edited January 31, 2017 by hardtack

[Biffen 12,943]

I'll explain my use of the word "Lebensraum" in the context of the Syrian , North African and Afghan refugee crisis ,one that the UN thinks might be up to the western world to resolve.

Put simply, it is not up to Europe,Australia,Canada or the US to "fix" these issues. 

Any totalitarian doctrine (ISlam) that attempts to lay the blame at the feet of Western civilisation is incorrect in my opinion and it is no longer a minority opinion I hold although the press attempt to paint it that way at nearly every opportunity because most press organisations are left/wet/humanitarian leaning in theses days of "News".perhaps with the exception of Fox .

I'm not sure Trudeau has the right to gift his own country to people who practise a faith bent on killing or converting the rest of us. Nor did the very generous Angela Merkel.Trump has it right on Muslims ,his methods may be wrong.

It's a fallacy to use the ageing populace in Germany,Australia or anywhere else to think that we should accept young migrants ad hoc to prop us up.

Let's not forget young migrants take overseas spouses, usually imported for a large sum of money from the new arrivals family, into the new country that has a health system, infrastructure ,and way of life paid for by the previous generations raised there.Muslims breed at a rapid rate that outstrips any culture that hosts it.This is a fact and not just an anecdote.The "fastest growing religion" is not said in jest.

A government must also consider whether the new arrivals will create tension in the new country, socially and politically as well as their economic contribution.We usually look for skilled immigrants and have a small quota refugees deemed to be in danger (minority groups like Jews after WW2 or persecuted peoples).

For instance, after the Sri Lankans got their country back, through grisly war, our government quite rightly sought to vet Tamils from entering here .

Australias Jewish population have contributed greatly to our country and have been here since Captain Cook.I'd like them to feel safe here and remain.

The rules of border control are central to statehood especially when the world is vastly overpopulated and getting worse.

I was speaking to Dieter,who is of German origin when I used the words "your own country of birth want their country back".There are ghettos fermenting hatred in Germany against their hosts made up of Turkish and Syrian peoples who are unhappy with the German way of life.If I go to Germany I wouldn't presume eating pork sausage and drinking beer is an evil I could stop.I am in Vietnam now,a country who's people have contributed wonderfully well and peacefully to our culture .They sought it out to join it, not change it.I don't go around here yelling and screaming at people not to eat dog though I personally wouldn't eat it.

I'll try to answer Chokes rambling question on figures what sort of % I might be happy with here. 

I would like Muslim immigration halted entirely.I would like overseas marriage visas cancelled for those who identify as Muslim and family re-unification visas scrapped as well.

I don't believe in accepting people bent on killing us or converting us.

Britain has 5% Muslims now and France the same.I've been to both countries  fairly recently and there is open hostility on the street coming from both directions.It's not pretty.

The crazed gentleman shooting up the Mosque will be the first of many.Trudeau is to blame, not Trump.

i await the usual hysterical and cliched replies from the usual confused people.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Biffen

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The  "usual hysterical and cliched replies from the usual confused people", such as myself, who only works very closely in the area, has now ceased.  Other than to say people may like to look at the history of Muslim settlement in Australia.  It pre-dates all of us on here and coexisted with the white Anglo-Saxon population peacefully and harmoniously for generations.

It is overly simplistic to apportion the blame against a collective religion.  It is directly sheeted home to those people who considered themselves disenfranchised and hijack a religion to justify their heinous crimes, as other religions have done over the centuries.  The issue goes far deeper and is much more complex than just being a religious cause.

I have Islamic friends, who are generous, knowledgeable and peaceful people, who are deeply despairing of the acts being committed in the name of Islam.  In one case, a friend's wife - who was not wearing a head scarf - was spat on at her gym, by a blonde jock who called himself a patriotic Australia.  Patriotism, .............. the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[Biffen 12,943]

2 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

The  "usual hysterical and cliched replies from the usual confused people", such as myself, who only works very closely in the area, has now ceased.  Other than to say people may like to look at the history of Muslim settlement in Australia.  It pre-dates all of us on here and coexisted with the white Anglo-Saxon population peacefully and harmoniously for generations.

It is overly simplistic to apportion the blame against a collective religion.  It is directly sheeted home to those people who considered themselves disenfranchised and hijack a religion to justify their heinous crimes, as other religions have done over the centuries.  The issue goes far deeper and is much more complex than just being a religious cause.

I have Islamic friends, who are generous, knowledgeable and peaceful people, who are deeply despairing of the acts being committed in the name of Islam.  In one case, a friend's wife - who was not wearing a head scarf - was spat on at her gym, by a blonde jock who called himself a patriotic Australia.  Patriotism, .............. the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I'll correct you on 3 points.

Islam is an intolerant religion almost entirely to blame for most world conflicts .

Muslims do not predate anyone here.You refer to the GhAn camel drivers who failed Burke and Wills then later murdered people in Broken Hill.

I am not overly patriotic either.

As to your friend in the gym-  she has the right to call the police for such a disgusting act, presuming she was not the antagonist.

[hardtack 10,539]

"The history of Islam in Australia pre-dates European settlement. From 1650, Muslim fisherman from South East Asia communicated and traded with Aborigines from Australia's north."

Seems they had a more harmonious relationship with the indigenous population than did our good old Christian forefathers.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s790151.htm

Edited February 1, 2017 by hardtack

[Biffen 12,943]

The part you highlighted is very very difficult to prove .There is no evidence of it.Indonesia itself did not exist then either.Sadly, The ABC are not the critical thinkers they once were.

[hardtack 10,539]

The encounters are somewhat documented...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9809.1996.tb00692.x/abstract

[Biffen 12,943]

33 minutes ago, hardtack said:

The encounters are somewhat documented...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9809.1996.tb00692.x/abstract

It mentions the deaths of Anoriginals that occurred upon contact with these fisherman.

Hardly surprising really but an interesting article.Will read in full.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

19 hours ago, Biffen said:

Australias Jewish population have contributed greatly to our country and have been here since Captain Cook.I'd like them to feel safe here and remain.

 

I'll try to answer Chokes rambling question on figures what sort of % I might be happy with here. 

I would like Muslim immigration halted entirely.I would like overseas marriage visas cancelled for those who identify as Muslim and family re-unification visas scrapped as well.

 

Just a couple of things I wanted to comment on:

1 - Thanks for answering my (rambling) question. Good to know where you stand. I think your suggestion is a massive over-reaction, but we disagree and I don't there's a lot of progress to be made talking about it.

2 - On the issue of safety. The least safe I have ever felt in this country has been on Australia Day when big white guys with no shirts get pissed and wear Australia Day flags as capes. I got very nervous a few years ago when there were a couple of them in a park across the road from my house, it was scary. Yet to experience this feeling when the Muslim neighbours are having a BBQ at the same place.

 

[daisycutter 29,616]

28 minutes ago, Choke said:

Just a couple of things I wanted to comment on:

1 - Thanks for answering my (rambling) question. Good to know where you stand. I think your suggestion is a massive over-reaction, but we disagree and I don't there's a lot of progress to be made talking about it.

2 - On the issue of safety. The least safe I have ever felt in this country has been on Australia Day when big white guys with no shirts get pissed and wear Australia Day flags as capes. I got very nervous a few years ago when there were a couple of them in a park across the road from my house, it was scary. Yet to experience this feeling when the Muslim neighbours are having a BBQ at the same place.

 

sorry choke, but your point 2 is such a silly, meaningless comment

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

sorry choke, but your point 2 is such a silly, meaningless comment

If it is a "silly" comment Choke, at least take consolation that you're not on your own on here.  I still don't get how a white supremacist kid in Quebec, who is clearly deranged, somehow becomes the fault of Trudeau and a direct result of Islamic radicalisation.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

18 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

sorry choke, but your point 2 is such a silly, meaningless comment

Meh, I thought it was relevant.

Much to disagree on in this thread lol.

[hardtack 10,539]

17 hours ago, Biffen said:

I'll correct you on 3 points.

Islam is an intolerant religion almost entirely to blame for most world conflicts .

Muslims do not predate anyone here.You refer to the GhAn camel drivers who failed Burke and Wills then later murdered people in Broken Hill.

I am not overly patriotic either.

As to your friend in the gym-  she has the right to call the police for such a disgusting act, presuming she was not the antagonist.

WW1, WW2, Rwanda (Hutus v Tutsis), ethnic cleansing in the Balkans... these were some of the worst conflicts the world has seen in the past 100 years and in not one single instance was islam to blame.